England U18 SA tour squad

[Tigersman]

Backs

Lennox Anyanwu - Harlequins (Christ's Hospital), George Barton - Gloucester Rugby (Dean Close School), Jack Bates - Bristol Bears (SGS Filton), Phil Cokanasiga - London Irish (St Pauls College), Tom Curtis - Sale Sharks (Sedbergh School), Josh Gillespie - Northampton Saints (Millfield School), Josh Hallett - Saracens (New Hall School), Will Haydon-Wood - Newcastle Falcons (Sedbergh School), Louis Lynagh - Harlequins (Hampton School), Callum Pascoe - Newcastle Falcons (Gosforth Academy), Raphael Quirke - Sale Sharks (St Ambrose College), Tom Roebuck - Sale Sharks (Wirral Grammar).

Forwards

Alfie Barbeary - Wasps (Bloxham School), Harvey Beaton - Saracens (Sutton Valence), Jack Clement - Gloucester Rugby (Cheltenham College), Harry Dugmore - Harlequins (Whitgift School), George Hammond - Harlequins (Whitgift School), Jack Hughes - Northampton Saints (Uppingham School), George Martin - Leicester Tigers (Brooksby Melton College), Nahum Merigan - Bath Rugby (Beechen Cliff School), Rowan Mullis - Gloucester Rugby (Hartpury College), Chunya Munga - London Irish (Leighton Park School), Sam Riley - Harlequins (St George's Weybridge), Fin Rossiter - London Irish (Wellington College), Archie Smeaton - Yorkshire Carnegie (Hymers College), James Whitcombe - Leicester Tigers (Woodhouse Grove).

Harlequins - 5
Gloucester - 3
London Irish - 3
Sale Sharks - 3
Northampton Saints - 2
Saracens - 2
Newcastle - 2
Leicester - 2
Bristol - 1
Bath - 1
Wasps - 1
Yorkshire - 1

[Puja]

I'm told Martin is a player to look out for at lock. Early comparisons with Martin Johnson.

A couple of notable surnames in the backs - I'm assuming Cokanasiga and Lynagh are brother and son to Joe and Michael respectively? Are they any good, do we know?

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Louis Lynagh? What sort of fucking name is that? I hope we ditch him.

[Doorzetbornandbred]

No Chiefs players is an interesting point.

[Timbo]

Alfie Barbeary is supposed to be a massive talent. Ive seen a few people talk about him as one of the best young players they’ve ever seen. Lynagh has a good reputation. That’s about all I know.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Alfie Barbeary is supposed to be a massive talent. Ive seen a few people talk about him as one of the best young players they’ve ever seen. Lynagh has a good reputation. That’s about all I know.

Barbeary is an outstanding talent in the making. It is really hard to pick a fault in the kid. I’ve not been this excited about an age grade player for years! And that includes Itoje!!

[Epaminondas Pules]

Of the squad the BIG prospects at this stage are Barbeary, Martin, Anyanwu, Roebuck and Bates.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I'm told Martin is a player to look out for at lock. Early comparisons with Martin Johnson.

A couple of notable surnames in the backs - I'm assuming Cokanasiga and Lynagh are brother and son to Joe and Michael respectively? Are they any good, do we know?

Puja

Martin is very highly rated. I know the coaches at Tiger are pretty excited. Dunn is another of the Tiger cubs to keep a eye out for.

Yes and yes on the other points.

[Epaminondas Pules]

One thing to consider is the change in ‘age’ at this level. This is more of an U17 rather than traditional U18 squad.

[Tigersman]

From Tigers POV yeh Martin is massively rated, surprisingly good carrier given his size.
Whitecombe is a interesting the guy is a massive and was part of a Tigers pack that pretty much crunched every other pack in the league, with him and Heyes it would be nice to get our Tighthead production back on track.

[fivepointer]

James son of Martin Whitcombe?

Bit more background -
Based at the Stellenbosch Academy of Sport, England will play fixtures against France (Friday, 10 August, KO 1.15pm BST), Wales (Tuesday, 14 August, KO 1.15pm BST) and South Africa Schools (Saturday, 18 August KO 1.05pm BST).
To reflect a change in the pathway calendar the group will be predominately U17s with the tour now marking the start of U18 international season, as well as their England journey.
In turn that will allow pathway coaches maximum contact time with the squad giving players further experience and learning, as well as an opportunity to continue their journey through the international season culminating in the U18 Six Nations festival in April 2019.
It will also allow the majority of U18 players to have a full pre-season with their academy resulting in a more connected journey through the pathway.
“This will likely be the first time the players have been away from home for an extended period of time playing an international rugby tournament, so that will challenge them in different ways,” said Dean Ryan, head of international player development.
“They will also play three international fixtures in a short space of time, so it’s an important experience for them as they transition through the pathway. For many it will also be their first experience of playing against a southern hemisphere opponent which will be valuable for those that advance into senior international rugby."
The squad includes five players capped at U18 level with Alfie Barbeary (Wasps - Bloxham School), George Barton (Gloucester Rugby - Dean Close School), Tom Curtis (Sale Sharks - Sedbergh School), Callum Pascoe (Newcastle Falcons - Gosforth Academy) and George Martin (Leicester Tigers - Brooksby Melton College) all named for the summer development tour.
The 26-man squad will be coached by Steve Bates and Jim Mallinder, who will be assisted by Mark Luffman and Nick Kennedy.
In June Bates led the U20s to the final of the World Rugby U20 Championship, while Mallinder joined England Rugby in the summer as a pathway performance coach. The pair will work cohesively across both programmes.
Former London Irish director of rugby Kennedy joins specifically for the tour as a consultant, bringing experience of coaching at both academy and senior level. Luffman has worked as a consultant specialist coach in the pathway since 2014.
Ryan added: “By taking our U17 group we are ensuring our best players are available to tour South Africa. Previously we always felt, along with the clubs, that being U18 in August was an important period for them transitioning from school into senior rugby and the tour did not fit into that window. It also denied U18 players having a full pre-season with their club or alternatively denied us the chance to take our best players on tour.
“The South Africa tour used to be the end of the U18 programme whereas now it’s the start of the journey and allows us to connect the pathway calendar. Those that travel with us to South Africa will be eligible for the U18 spring internationals before having a full pre-season at their clubs in July and August before continuing their international journey.
“It was important to produce a model that complements the club scene and fits in with their programme to make the journey through the pathway more seamless.”

[Tigersman]

Yes son of Martin and grandson of Big frank Whitecombe.

He's like 6ft 3 and 18 stone at only 17.

[Tigersman]

England U17/18 got pumped by France U19
41-21

Tries here

Not to tot the Leicester horn but Martin (England 5 who scored the first try) is IMO going to be world class only just turned 17 in June, got the size but is also a huge ball runner.

[Raggs]

If we're tooting then Barbaery the captain was significant in both the first 2 tries

[Tigersman]

If we're tooting then Barbaery the captain was significant in both the first 2 tries

You always have to talk about wasps don't you.

[fivepointer]

Barbeary is very highly regarded. He's tremendous in the loose. Martin does look a serious prospect too.

result not that surprising given France were fielding a virtual U19 side against what is essentially an U17 one. Its a good learning experience for our lads.

[fivepointer]

England U18s have named their side to face Wales for Tuesday’s second fixture of the U18 International Series in South Africa.

The side were beaten 41-21 by France on Friday in their opening game of the tournament and take on Wales in Stellenberg (14 August, 1.15pm BST, live on S4C).

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/engla ... al-series/

[Tigersman]

Weird how they have such short turnarounds not like U18 season starts anytime soon.

[fivepointer]

3 games in 8 days. They're young so will recover quickly but its tough going against very good opposition.

[Puja]

England U18s have named their side to face Wales for Tuesday’s second fixture of the U18 International Series in South Africa.

The side were beaten 41-21 by France on Friday in their opening game of the tournament and take on Wales in Stellenberg (14 August, 1.15pm BST, live on S4C).

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/engla ... al-series/

I will take a moment to note that Chunya Munga is an amazing name.

Puja

[TheNomad]

I find it strange that we've had one of the world's best youth teams for about 7 years now, and yet the number of truly top class players we're producing in so many positions is worryingly limited. We've had the same problem positions for ages.

Is it an issue with the way the premiership is played/coached? Not sure, but the development from junior to senior just isn't there frequently enough

[Mellsblue]

EW has always had an interesting theory, that with our player base we’ll always be able to put out a solid squad across all positions whilst most other nations will have a decent percent of positions where the options are below the standard required. We therefore look stronger using a cohort condensed into 2 years whereas the senior national teams can smooth ebbs and flows in positions due to picking from a far wider age range. EW did forward this theory after we ripped Ireland u20s a new one but I think it has merit.
There also the point that most other nations have more control over and access to their players and therefore their development.

[Puja]

I would note that, while we've had brilliant youth teams for years, they've all been playing around the fact that they've got weaknesses at 2, 9, and 12.

Puja

[Timbo]

There’s also an argument that says, while we do punch slightly below our weight, England’s record over the last 5 or so years (since the academy system started to bare fruit) stands scrutiny against any other Northern Hemisphere team. Only Ireland could argue a case to have been more successful in that time, and that by a whisker. We lost 2 6N’s titles on points difference, a couple of extra try’s against Italy in ‘13 and ‘14 we could have had 4 Championships on the trot.

Not to say we’re amazing or anything, but the standards by which England are judged do tend to be a bit harsher than the other NH teams. Probably rightly, but even so. Can’t imagine, for eg, that Ireland, Scotland or Wales could win 18 games on the trot, a GS and another 6N title and still have people say they have no world class players, something said often about this current Eng generation.

Nor were we having this conversation 12 months ago when the Lions squad, propped up by loads of England players, had just completed a successful tour of NZ. Off the top of my head 10 Eng players featured in the final 2 tests for The Lions, 8 of whom had been prominent age grade graduates. That would suggest we are producing a fair few top quality players, and far more than we had been producing when looking at the previous 2 tours.

[TheNomad]

Yup, all good points.

You'd just think that with the player pool and consequent depth we have, we'd have more variety available.

It's amazing to think there are so many positions where, for the national team, several players are still being shoe horned into positions they don't regularly play in, and other of questionable quality are still being picked.

When was the last time we were comfortable with the players being (consistently) selected at 7, 9, 10, 12 and 15? Some pretty fundamental positions there, and importantly, a massive core of the decision makers - maybe it's the tactical side of the game that we're not developing?

And outside of the Vunipolas and Tuilagi, where are the gain line breakers? Not suggesting it's everything, but I frequently think we lack (at least the option of) real carriers of quality