Lions SA 2021

[Mikey Brown]

Noooo. All players must be assigned to one of these weird arbitrary categories that Jngf has come up with. I know it seems illogical to an outsider but that’s the way it’s done here.

Oh hang on. This isn’t the EMB.

[Puja]

I think it will interesting to see the type of blindside flanker Lions plump for :

- a PSdT lock type e.g. Lawes or Beirne?

- a second no.8 style carrier e.g. Stander?

- a 6.5 like Underhill, T.Curry or Navidi?

Beirne fits all these criteria imo, very good over the ball, great in the lineout and can carry with a nice step.

I think he's got to be the early favourite to pair with the one non-negotiable pick of Curry on the flank. Very useful player and, as you said, covers the second two categories while being excellent at the first. His lineout prowess would also open up the option of BillyV if he comes into the tour in some kind of form (at the moment, he's a distance behind Faletau).

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I think it will interesting to see the type of blindside flanker Lions plump for :

- a PSdT lock type e.g. Lawes or Beirne?

- a second no.8 style carrier e.g. Stander?

- a 6.5 like Underhill, T.Curry or Navidi?

Beirne fits all these criteria imo, very good over the ball, great in the lineout and can carry with a nice step.

I think he's got to be the early favourite to pair with the one non-negotiable pick of Curry on the flank. Very useful player and, as you said, covers the second two categories while being excellent at the first. His lineout prowess would also open up the option of BillyV if he comes into the tour in some kind of form (at the moment, he's a distance behind Faletau).

Puja

Do you think Curry was better than Watson this 6 nations? Not that it means you’d have to pick him.

[jngf]

Beirne fits all these criteria imo, very good over the ball, great in the lineout and can carry with a nice step.

I think he's got to be the early favourite to pair with the one non-negotiable pick of Curry on the flank. Very useful player and, as you said, covers the second two categories while being excellent at the first. His lineout prowess would also open up the option of BillyV if he comes into the tour in some kind of form (at the moment, he's a distance behind Faletau).

Puja

Do you think Curry was better than Watson this 6 nations? Not that it means you’d have to pick him.

In all objectivity Watson was better than Curry - including a better carrier - to be fair Curry’s turned into much more of a 6.5 since bulking up and being used as a 6 in tandem with Underhill at 7 so comparing him to Watson is increasingly a case of comparing apples with pears imo

[Puja]

Beirne fits all these criteria imo, very good over the ball, great in the lineout and can carry with a nice step.

I think he's got to be the early favourite to pair with the one non-negotiable pick of Curry on the flank. Very useful player and, as you said, covers the second two categories while being excellent at the first. His lineout prowess would also open up the option of BillyV if he comes into the tour in some kind of form (at the moment, he's a distance behind Faletau).

Puja

Do you think Curry was better than Watson this 6 nations? Not that it means you’d have to pick him.

Yes. Watson's a very good player, but Curry's the only man who was consistently good in England's campaign. He's a genuine world XV player IMO.

Mind, Lions is all about form on tour and, if there is an actual proper tour, it'll be down to who shows up in the warmups.

Puja

[Big D]

I think he's got to be the early favourite to pair with the one non-negotiable pick of Curry on the flank. Very useful player and, as you said, covers the second two categories while being excellent at the first. His lineout prowess would also open up the option of BillyV if he comes into the tour in some kind of form (at the moment, he's a distance behind Faletau).

Puja

Do you think Curry was better than Watson this 6 nations? Not that it means you’d have to pick him.

Yes. Watson's a very good player, but Curry's the only man who was consistently good in England's campaign. He's a genuine world XV player IMO.

Mind, Lions is all about form on tour and, if there is an actual proper tour, it'll be down to who shows up in the warmups.

Puja

It is going to be an interesting one for the coaches to unravel. Some of Watsons performances and stats from the 6N were impressive. I have seen the argument he is too small but that isn't borne out by the way he carries or his performances in the past v SA who are in the main the most physical pack we'd face (although we haven't played them in a while).

I still see Curry as more a 6 than a 7, especially as he has packed on the muscle. They would make a decent tandem if let loose together.

[Puja]

Do you think Curry was better than Watson this 6 nations? Not that it means you’d have to pick him.

Yes. Watson's a very good player, but Curry's the only man who was consistently good in England's campaign. He's a genuine world XV player IMO.

Mind, Lions is all about form on tour and, if there is an actual proper tour, it'll be down to who shows up in the warmups.

Puja

It is going to be an interesting one for the coaches to unravel. Some of Watsons performances and stats from the 6N were impressive. I have seen the argument he is too small but that isn't borne out by the way he carries or his performances in the past v SA who are in the main the most physical pack we'd face (although we haven't played them in a while).

I still see Curry as more a 6 than a 7, especially as he has packed on the muscle. They would make a decent tandem if let loose together.

If they plan to absolutely rinse the breakdowns rather than attempt to match physicality, then Curry/Watson/Faletau would be a hell of a back row.

Puja

[whatisthejava]

Yes. Watson's a very good player, but Curry's the only man who was consistently good in England's campaign. He's a genuine world XV player IMO.

Mind, Lions is all about form on tour and, if there is an actual proper tour, it'll be down to who shows up in the warmups.

Puja

It is going to be an interesting one for the coaches to unravel. Some of Watsons performances and stats from the 6N were impressive. I have seen the argument he is too small but that isn't borne out by the way he carries or his performances in the past v SA who are in the main the most physical pack we'd face (although we haven't played them in a while).

I still see Curry as more a 6 than a 7, especially as he has packed on the muscle. They would make a decent tandem if let loose together.

If they plan to absolutely rinse the breakdowns rather than attempt to match physicality, then Curry/Watson/Faletau would be a hell of a back row.

Puja

I have Tipuric/Watson and Faletua but the same plan

[jngf]

It is going to be an interesting one for the coaches to unravel. Some of Watsons performances and stats from the 6N were impressive. I have seen the argument he is too small but that isn't borne out by the way he carries or his performances in the past v SA who are in the main the most physical pack we'd face (although we haven't played them in a while).

I still see Curry as more a 6 than a 7, especially as he has packed on the muscle. They would make a decent tandem if let loose together.

If they plan to absolutely rinse the breakdowns rather than attempt to match physicality, then Curry/Watson/Faletau would be a hell of a back row.

Puja

I have Tipuric/Watson and Faletua but the same plan

I do think Gatland will be sorely tempted to field a tall 6 especially if Boks field Ezebeth, De Jäger and PsDT in starting unit - especially given Itoje is actually on the short side in comparison. Also much as I love their play, fielding both Tipuric and Watson or Curry and Watson together looks a bit underpowered as a unit. I suspect Tipuric, Watson and possibly Curry and Underhill and Navidi will all be fighting for that ‘7’ shirt.

[Dan. Dan. Dan.]

Yeah I'm a huge Tipuric fan but I think he'll be the odd man out. Not sure SA would give him much joy at either the breakdown or in the loose/support play.
I think Curry would be fine with the physicality, but Beirne just pips him for me because of the lineout option. Also on 6N form he was pretty awesome at everything.
Navidi I expect will be fighting it out with Underhill, Ritchie etc, for a squad place, and I'd have him as the frontrunner at the moment.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Garland was never a massive Tipuric fan. (Sadly)

Also, he was even less of a James Hook fan. And Finn Russell is like Hook ... with randomness turned up to 500%.

[Stom]

Honestly...it's starting to feel like this is going to be a bit of a farce. We're going to get humped.

Training camp for 2 weeks with no England based players.

No England based players for the warm up.

Gatland unlikely to select players who aren't available for those...

This is going to be a very Wales heavy squad.

We're probably going to see every "decision" go the way of non-England players. Obviously the "core" will go, which probably means Farrell, Itoje, George, Mako and Billy Vunipola, Daly and probably Curry and Tuilagi (if fit) from outside Sarries.

Hogg and Faletau will also be underprepared, plausibly. Farce.

But then again, about 80% of us on the EMB think the complete opposite as most pundits on the qualities of specific players. So maybe we're all just completely wrong and rugby is actually about being a petulant twunt nowadays. So Biggar at 10, Farrell at 12, POM at 6...

[whatisthejava]

This is going to be a very Wales heavy squad.

Not convinced by that, Gatland isnt a autocrat, and everyone knows while the wales players are good but their systems were not good and were flattered by the first 3 results and then shat it when they were a sniff away from a grand slam.

I do think England will get very few player, but you got beaten by everyone else, and dont have a voice in the room so when the 50s/50s come up they will go against you.

My gut feel is The forwards will be a mix of Wales/Scotland/IReland and Itoje

The backs will be a mix of welsh and scots with Henshaw

I think its really difficult to name a single english player that outdid his rival even while losing , even though Itoje was a nuisance , he was a nuisance because he was constatly playing illegally and getting penalised.

The props got done up front by Ireland and Scotland
The back row got done in by all 3
The wings never saw the ball
Daly was attrocious
The centres either got ignored or smashed

- Again like Wales, the english players arent suddenly bad but they look like they have been flogged and need some serious downtime. THey wernt from a RWC final, to a few weeks off to a pandemic to a 11 month season , to eddies kamikazee training camps to historic loss to scotland ,ending with a record defeat to Wales and a pasting by Ireland.

Not exactly mentally ready for a lions tour.


- ON the lions, i think its a bad omen, if you want to beat the saffers you need the english players and their arrogance to turn up, we dont have that this year and i think Rassie will have only pick a game plan once the squad has been announed, if we go mobile he will smash us up front. If we go heavy, he will pick a mobile team and smash us out wide.

[Mr Mwenda]

I'll actually be quite pleased if the Celts (and the Scots in particular) get a bit of luck in terms of representation compared to the English. It's nice to cheer these players on rather than rage at them as normal. I'd hope that missing out on selection might concentrate a few minds in the England camp that have got too comfortable.

[Stom]

I'll actually be quite pleased if the Celts (and the Scots in particular) get a bit of luck in terms of representation compared to the English. It's nice to cheer these players on rather than rage at them as normal. I'd hope that missing out on selection might concentrate a few minds in the England camp that have got too comfortable.

Yeah, but that’s the problem, you really think the Saracens lot will be left behind? They’ll go and they’re the ones who need dropping and a kick up there ass

[Numbers]

Honestly...it's starting to feel like this is going to be a bit of a farce. We're going to get humped.

Training camp for 2 weeks with no England based players.

No England based players for the warm up.

Gatland unlikely to select players who aren't available for those...

This is going to be a very Wales heavy squad.

We're probably going to see every "decision" go the way of non-England players. Obviously the "core" will go, which probably means Farrell, Itoje, George, Mako and Billy Vunipola, Daly and probably Curry and Tuilagi (if fit) from outside Sarries.

Hogg and Faletau will also be underprepared, plausibly. Farce.

But then again, about 80% of us on the EMB think the complete opposite as most pundits on the qualities of specific players. So maybe we're all just completely wrong and rugby is actually about being a petulant twunt nowadays. So Biggar at 10, Farrell at 12, POM at 6...

Anthony Watson is on the plane already I would say and Youngs has done himself no disservice in the 6 Nations so he'll be in the mix at 9, Sinckler will go also and Marler if they can tempt him to leave his family.

[Scrumhead]

The build-up/preparation for the Lions is definitely less than ideal, but what preparation are SA getting?

A big chunk of their playing group have played very little rugby since the RWC final. Only their NH based players have had any meaningful game time.

I keep hearing about their physicality etc. but going from very little, domestic only rugby to facing a Lions side full of players who have played recent test and European matches is a massive ask for any of the SA-based players. When you consider that will potentially include all of their front row and all of their starting back row, that’s a pretty big deal IMO.

[Spiffy]

Honestly...it's starting to feel like this is going to be a bit of a farce. We're going to get humped.

Training camp for 2 weeks with no England based players.

No England based players for the warm up.

Gatland unlikely to select players who aren't available for those...

This is going to be a very Wales heavy squad.

We're probably going to see every "decision" go the way of non-England players. Obviously the "core" will go, which probably means Farrell, Itoje, George, Mako and Billy Vunipola, Daly and probably Curry and Tuilagi (if fit) from outside Sarries.

Hogg and Faletau will also be underprepared, plausibly. Farce.

But then again, about 80% of us on the EMB think the complete opposite as most pundits on the qualities of specific players. So maybe we're all just completely wrong and rugby is actually about being a petulant twunt nowadays. So Biggar at 10, Farrell at 12, POM at 6...

Anthony Watson is on the plane already I would say and Youngs has done himself no disservice in the 6 Nations so he'll be in the mix at 9, Sinckler will go also and Marler if they can tempt him to leave his family.

Can't see at all why Youngs is so highly rated by some, especially after a poor England showing in the 6N. I'd have at least the following SH's ahead of him :

Davies/Webb/Williams - Wales
Murray/Cooney - Ireland
Price - Scotland
Care - England

[Puja]

Honestly...it's starting to feel like this is going to be a bit of a farce. We're going to get humped.

Training camp for 2 weeks with no England based players.

No England based players for the warm up.

Gatland unlikely to select players who aren't available for those...

This is going to be a very Wales heavy squad.

We're probably going to see every "decision" go the way of non-England players. Obviously the "core" will go, which probably means Farrell, Itoje, George, Mako and Billy Vunipola, Daly and probably Curry and Tuilagi (if fit) from outside Sarries.

Hogg and Faletau will also be underprepared, plausibly. Farce.

But then again, about 80% of us on the EMB think the complete opposite as most pundits on the qualities of specific players. So maybe we're all just completely wrong and rugby is actually about being a petulant twunt nowadays. So Biggar at 10, Farrell at 12, POM at 6...

Anthony Watson is on the plane already I would say and Youngs has done himself no disservice in the 6 Nations so he'll be in the mix at 9, Sinckler will go also and Marler if they can tempt him to leave his family.

Can't see at all why Youngs is so highly rated by some, especially after a poor England showing in the 6N. I'd have at least the following SH's ahead of him :

Davies/Webb/Williams - Wales
Murray/Cooney - Ireland
Price - Scotland
Care - England

Based just on this 6N, that's nonsense. Youngs has many, many flaws and is definitely not rated on the EMB as of a general rule, but he was excellent in the 6N and a rare shining light.

Trust me, it pains me to say that, so I'm definitely not saying that out of an abiding love for him!

Puja

[Mr Mwenda]

I'll actually be quite pleased if the Celts (and the Scots in particular) get a bit of luck in terms of representation compared to the English. It's nice to cheer these players on rather than rage at them as normal. I'd hope that missing out on selection might concentrate a few minds in the England camp that have got too comfortable.

Yeah, but that’s the problem, you really think the Saracens lot will be left behind? They’ll go and they’re the ones who need dropping and a kick up there ass

Well if they go they'll need to work for their places within the squad - gonna have to hit the ground running to be in the match day squad. Sink or swim seems good to me. I also expect Gatland to reject at least one that we think undroppable, just to make some sort of point. The Sarries lot are all vulnerable to that.

[Mellsblue]

One thing the Sarries players do have on their side is that they’ll be available for the pre-Japan match training camp.

[Big D]

Honestly...it's starting to feel like this is going to be a bit of a farce. We're going to get humped.

Training camp for 2 weeks with no England based players.

No England based players for the warm up.

Gatland unlikely to select players who aren't available for those...

This is going to be a very Wales heavy squad.

We're probably going to see every "decision" go the way of non-England players. Obviously the "core" will go, which probably means Farrell, Itoje, George, Mako and Billy Vunipola, Daly and probably Curry and Tuilagi (if fit) from outside Sarries.

Hogg and Faletau will also be underprepared, plausibly. Farce.

But then again, about 80% of us on the EMB think the complete opposite as most pundits on the qualities of specific players. So maybe we're all just completely wrong and rugby is actually about being a petulant twunt nowadays. So Biggar at 10, Farrell at 12, POM at 6...

Anthony Watson is on the plane already I would say and Youngs has done himself no disservice in the 6 Nations so he'll be in the mix at 9, Sinckler will go also and Marler if they can tempt him to leave his family.

Watson is a stick on. Sinckler and Curry too for being in the squad.

I wouldn't have either Vunipola or Daly there though. Daly especially is neither in the group of best 13's or group of back 3 players and there are a couple who can cover both in emergency. Manu isn't as strong in the set piece as the other options and I'd rather Marler in SA than him. With Billy, I think teams have worked him out to an extent and SA especially are pretty well set to handle him.

Hogg and 'aul Talupe will be grand, they are experience Lions tourists, I'd have no concerns over them.

[Mellsblue]

One thing the Sarries players do have on their side is that they’ll be available for the pre-Japan match training camp.

Scrub that. The PRL clubs are acting unison, allegedly.

[Puja]

One thing the Sarries players do have on their side is that they’ll be available for the pre-Japan match training camp.

Scrub that. The PRL clubs are acting unison, allegedly.

In which case, ditch all the Saracens players. Some of them are genuinely world class, but the Lions cannot afford to carry players who won't have played a top-level game in months in the hope that they can find form in the short build-up.

Puja

[Spiffy]

Anthony Watson is on the plane already I would say and Youngs has done himself no disservice in the 6 Nations so he'll be in the mix at 9, Sinckler will go also and Marler if they can tempt him to leave his family.

Can't see at all why Youngs is so highly rated by some, especially after a poor England showing in the 6N. I'd have at least the following SH's ahead of him :

Davies/Webb/Williams - Wales
Murray/Cooney - Ireland
Price - Scotland
Care - England

Based just on this 6N, that's nonsense. Youngs has many, many flaws and is definitely not rated on the EMB as of a general rule, but he was excellent in the 6N and a rare shining light.

Trust me, it pains me to say that, so I'm definitely not saying that out of an abiding love for him!

Puja

Where would you rank him in that list of seven SHs I posted then?