Help - Lions 36

[Dan. Dan. Dan.]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ugby-union

[Dan. Dan. Dan.]

Maybe we've all underestimated how much Gatland wants to troll Eddie?
8 - Simmonds
9 - Care
10 - Smith?
Itoje captain?!

[Puja]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ugby-union

I have already resigned myself to the fact that George Ford will not go, despite being the best 10 in the British Isles, because Farrell is beloved of the coaches (and his dad's on the selection panel), Biggar is beloved of Gatland (as well as being a decent player), and Russell is beloved of Townsend (as well as being a brilliant player on 9/10 occasions). If Smith is picked in front of him, that will go from injustice to outright outrage.

I mean, I'm willing to bet money that Ford hasn't even received one of the 50 letters for the long list. But it's just not fair.

Puja

[Puja]

Maybe we've all underestimated how much Gatland wants to troll Eddie?
8 - Simmonds
9 - Care
10 - Smith?
Itoje captain?!

I think Simmonds going is a very realistic possibility based just on that.

Puja

[whatisthejava]

Smith might go, apparently. Would be pretty amazing but I doubt it somehow.

Which Smith? Surely not Marcus?

Puja

Telegraph are filling inches by suggesting every player who didn’t play in the 6N but should of. (Hindsight engaged)

[Dan. Dan. Dan.]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ugby-union

I have already resigned myself to the fact that George Ford will not go, despite being the best 10 in the British Isles, because Farrell is beloved of the coaches (and his dad's on the selection panel), Biggar is beloved of Gatland (as well as being a decent player), and Russell is beloved of Townsend (as well as being a brilliant player on 9/10 occasions). If Smith is picked in front of him, that will go from injustice to outright outrage.

I mean, I'm willing to bet money that Ford hasn't even received one of the 50 letters for the long list. But it's just not fair.

Puja

Not to mention how annoying it would be if it meant England couldn't try out Smith at 10 this summer.

[Cameo]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ugby-union

I have already resigned myself to the fact that George Ford will not go, despite being the best 10 in the British Isles, because Farrell is beloved of the coaches (and his dad's on the selection panel), Biggar is beloved of Gatland (as well as being a decent player), and Russell is beloved of Townsend (as well as being a brilliant player on 9/10 occasions). If Smith is picked in front of him, that will go from injustice to outright outrage.

I mean, I'm willing to bet money that Ford hasn't even received one of the 50 letters for the long list. But it's just not fair.

Puja

Couldn't agree more - apart from on Ford being better than Russell (but I rate both very highly). I just don't think prem games, especially this year, are enough of a test.

I think the same goes for Simmonds to be honest. There are enough back rows who have proven it. I rate Simmonds but in the one proper Champions Cup game he played (which still wasn't international level), he was quiet.

Care - ha

[Spiffy]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... ugby-union

I have already resigned myself to the fact that George Ford will not go, despite being the best 10 in the British Isles, because Farrell is beloved of the coaches (and his dad's on the selection panel), Biggar is beloved of Gatland (as well as being a decent player), and Russell is beloved of Townsend (as well as being a brilliant player on 9/10 occasions). If Smith is picked in front of him, that will go from injustice to outright outrage.

I mean, I'm willing to bet money that Ford hasn't even received one of the 50 letters for the long list. But it's just not fair.

Puja

Couldn't agree more - apart from on Ford being better than Russell (but I rate both very highly). I just don't think prem games, especially this year, are enough of a test.

I think the same goes for Simmonds to be honest. There are enough back rows who have proven it. I rate Simmonds but in the one proper Champions Cup game he played (which still wasn't international level), he was quiet.

Care - ha

That is something of a circular argument. You are basically saying there is no way to know how good a player would be at international level unless he gets to play at international level. Yes - of course. So we will never know about Simmonds until (and if) he gets a run of games. In the meantime all he can do is keep outplaying his peers head to head at league level and hope for the opportunity. The real argument is does he deserve a chance. I'd say he deserved a run more than Earl but obviously Jones does not agree.

[Cameo]

I have already resigned myself to the fact that George Ford will not go, despite being the best 10 in the British Isles, because Farrell is beloved of the coaches (and his dad's on the selection panel), Biggar is beloved of Gatland (as well as being a decent player), and Russell is beloved of Townsend (as well as being a brilliant player on 9/10 occasions). If Smith is picked in front of him, that will go from injustice to outright outrage.

I mean, I'm willing to bet money that Ford hasn't even received one of the 50 letters for the long list. But it's just not fair.

Puja

Couldn't agree more - apart from on Ford being better than Russell (but I rate both very highly). I just don't think prem games, especially this year, are enough of a test.

I think the same goes for Simmonds to be honest. There are enough back rows who have proven it. I rate Simmonds but in the one proper Champions Cup game he played (which still wasn't international level), he was quiet.

Care - ha

That is something of a circular argument. You are basically saying there is no way to know how good a player would be at international level unless he gets to play at international level. Yes - of course. So we will never know about Simmonds until (and if) he gets a run of games. In the meantime all he can do is keep outplaying his peers head to head at league level and hope for the opportunity. The real argument is does he deserve a chance. I'd say he deserved a run more than Earl but obviously Jones does not agree.

Not at all. I think he deserves another (better) chance for England as he does well at the level he is allowed to play. For selection for the Lions, he is competing with people who have excelled at the level above.

I don't mind the idea of a wildcard but:

1) there are not many warm up games;

2) they are less useful in areas of strength where good internationals will miss out anyway; and

3) from the big games I have seen Simmonds in, I think he'd do a good job for the Lions but not offer anything wildly different than anyone else.