Europe - in or out - RR Votes

[Banquo]

I think Remain just thought they needed to turn up to win. What does concern me quite a lot is the lack of a real plan at the moment. I understand Cameron resigning, I think that was inevitable following the Leave win. But we seem to have a state of paralysis at th moment. Surely the weekend was time for lots of reassuring stuff to investors and so on to stay calm, etc, etc. Yet is all seemed a bit quiet and overshadowed by the Conservative leadership contest and the upheaval in the Labour Party.

The only person Ive seen on the TV who has looked slightly competent and in control is Mark Carney.

Neither Remain nor Leave saw the big Leave vote from the disenfranchised coming- though the GE gave a clue. Dave bought time by resigning, and deferring succession til October- I'd like to think that was always the plan to try and wring some concessions from Brussels, but I think he was just placing the onus on those he felt had betrayed him to do what they'd promised; btw I don't think fine words will reassure businesses to be honest.

I understand that fine words will only get you so far. However, whilst we are undoubtedly in a period of huge transition and uncertainty, someone looking like they are in charge is at least a bit reassuring. In the absence of that, a challenge can be viewed as a disaster.

Well they've spoken, and contrary to what Bozza has said, Project Fear looks like its just starting. I agree there is a huge leadership vacuum-- and confirms what many of the Leave voters thought ironically- the politicians are looking at each other, and don't give a shyte for the people they serve.

[Sandydragon]

Neither Remain nor Leave saw the big Leave vote from the disenfranchised coming- though the GE gave a clue. Dave bought time by resigning, and deferring succession til October- I'd like to think that was always the plan to try and wring some concessions from Brussels, but I think he was just placing the onus on those he felt had betrayed him to do what they'd promised; btw I don't think fine words will reassure businesses to be honest.

I understand that fine words will only get you so far. However, whilst we are undoubtedly in a period of huge transition and uncertainty, someone looking like they are in charge is at least a bit reassuring. In the absence of that, a challenge can be viewed as a disaster.

Well they've spoken, and contrary to what Bozza has said, Project Fear looks like its just starting. I agree there is a huge leadership vacuum-- and confirms what many of the Leave voters thought ironically- the politicians are looking at each other, and don't give a shyte for the people they serve.

Yes. The number of attempts to protract the Conservative leadership campaign is very worrying. The 1922 Committee is resisting extending the process any longer than the party conference; to me even that is too long. This isn't a time for meandering around, its a time for leadership.

[Banquo]

I understand that fine words will only get you so far. However, whilst we are undoubtedly in a period of huge transition and uncertainty, someone looking like they are in charge is at least a bit reassuring. In the absence of that, a challenge can be viewed as a disaster.

Well they've spoken, and contrary to what Bozza has said, Project Fear looks like its just starting. I agree there is a huge leadership vacuum-- and confirms what many of the Leave voters thought ironically- the politicians are looking at each other, and don't give a shyte for the people they serve.

Yes. The number of attempts to protract the Conservative leadership campaign is very worrying. The 1922 Committee is resisting extending the process any longer than the party conference; to me even that is too long. This isn't a time for meandering around, its a time for leadership.

...except that it filibusters triggering Article 50. Which could be a good thing if Brussels reacts; its clear that Boris and Gove want to try and negotiate staying in, at least to me. Its how you lead without giving the game away which is the conundrum.

[Sandydragon]

Well they've spoken, and contrary to what Bozza has said, Project Fear looks like its just starting. I agree there is a huge leadership vacuum-- and confirms what many of the Leave voters thought ironically- the politicians are looking at each other, and don't give a shyte for the people they serve.

Yes. The number of attempts to protract the Conservative leadership campaign is very worrying. The 1922 Committee is resisting extending the process any longer than the party conference; to me even that is too long. This isn't a time for meandering around, its a time for leadership.

...except that it filibusters triggering Article 50. Which could be a good thing if Brussels reacts; its clear that Boris and Gove want to try and negotiate staying in, at least to me. Its how you lead without giving the game away which is the conundrum.

As much as I understand the business need for a resolution, I do think that its worth us and the EU taking a month to get our positions in order. As much as the UK is currently divided on how to proceed (the lack of plan is worrying) then EU seems to be undecided on a response. Merkel wants a happy departure, France seems to want a punishing divorce. Other members are starting to get upset as well. I think a bit (not months and months though) of time spent on getting some kind of plan together would be time well spent on the long term. Its also too emotional at the moment.

Ideally, Id like Johnson Gove et al to sit in a darkened room and establish a plan for what they think should happen next.

[Banquo]

Ideally, Id like Johnson Gove et al to sit in a darkened room and be quietly done away with.

fixed for you

[Digby]

They really need to get a move on. The cost which will derive from the uncertainty will dwarf the BS figure of £350 million/week. I know it's impacting my business, but there's just no way we're the only people looking at delayed/cancelled revenues/investment. And as before we've had this uncertainty looming a long time now, and really just what the hell are they expecting us to do, we're just continually on hold in far too many ways.

We'd have been better off pulling the plug on staying in the UK some time back at this juncture, and again we can't be the only business this is impacting. And moving is an option given the number of staff we already use out of other countries, mainly Poland and India which wouldn't be me first, second or third choices but still.

It's all very well saying people they understand our need for a resolution, but unless they want to start writing me six figure cheques each month they can do one.

[Banquo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... w-26062016

Marr's intro is a good summation, after the news.

[Banquo]

They really need to get a move on. The cost which will derive from the uncertainty will dwarf the BS figure of £350 million/week. I know it's impacting my business, but there's just no way we're the only people looking at delayed/cancelled revenues/investment. And as before we've had this uncertainty looming a long time now, and really just what the hell are they expecting us to do, we're just continually on hold in far too many ways.

We'd have been better off pulling the plug on staying in the UK some time back at this juncture, and again we can't be the only business this is impacting. And moving is an option given the number of staff we already use out of other countries, mainly Poland and India which wouldn't be me first, second or third choices but still.

It's all very well saying people they understand our need for a resolution, but unless they want to start writing me six figure cheques each month they can do one.

its exactly what Remain warned of, is it not? Not that that helps.

[Stom]

BTW, one big repercussion over here (and elsewhere across the world).

ATMS refusing British cards and money exchanges refusing to change sterling. I'm lucky, I only have a small amount of pounds and can wait to change it as long as I want. But I know people who live off a British card, and they're fecked. The only machines accepting their cards are the independent ones that cost like 3 quid to use.

[Banquo]

BTW, one big repercussion over here (and elsewhere across the world).

ATMS refusing British cards and money exchanges refusing to change sterling. I'm lucky, I only have a small amount of pounds and can wait to change it as long as I want. But I know people who live off a British card, and they're fecked. The only machines accepting their cards are the independent ones that cost like 3 quid to use.

cripes! is that a temporary thing?

[Digby]

They really need to get a move on. The cost which will derive from the uncertainty will dwarf the BS figure of £350 million/week. I know it's impacting my business, but there's just no way we're the only people looking at delayed/cancelled revenues/investment. And as before we've had this uncertainty looming a long time now, and really just what the hell are they expecting us to do, we're just continually on hold in far too many ways.

We'd have been better off pulling the plug on staying in the UK some time back at this juncture, and again we can't be the only business this is impacting. And moving is an option given the number of staff we already use out of other countries, mainly Poland and India which wouldn't be me first, second or third choices but still.

It's all very well saying people they understand our need for a resolution, but unless they want to start writing me six figure cheques each month they can do one.

its exactly what Remain warned of, is it not? Not that that helps.

I don't know anyone who doesn't think uncertainty a problem, but yes they did, though I think remain may have also warned Lord Lucan would come back to kidnap the children, they certainly covered many bases with their warnings.

[Banquo]

They really need to get a move on. The cost which will derive from the uncertainty will dwarf the BS figure of £350 million/week. I know it's impacting my business, but there's just no way we're the only people looking at delayed/cancelled revenues/investment. And as before we've had this uncertainty looming a long time now, and really just what the hell are they expecting us to do, we're just continually on hold in far too many ways.

We'd have been better off pulling the plug on staying in the UK some time back at this juncture, and again we can't be the only business this is impacting. And moving is an option given the number of staff we already use out of other countries, mainly Poland and India which wouldn't be me first, second or third choices but still.

It's all very well saying people they understand our need for a resolution, but unless they want to start writing me six figure cheques each month they can do one.

its exactly what Remain warned of, is it not? Not that that helps.

I don't know anyone who doesn't think uncertainty a problem, but yes they did, though I think remain may have also warned Lord Lucan would come back to kidnap the children, they certainly covered many bases with their warnings.

true, overplayed it, plus a load of folks didn't give a crap about or didn't care about the impact on 'business' (I assume you don't know everyone in the country )

[Which Tyler]

"Project Fear" is alive and well - with the abuse of immigrants.
I posted the first part of this elsewhere on Friday, but not here as it would have been a significant side-track from the discussion at the time; but now... I kinda want the story told.
Alison moved over from France 19 years ago respecting the country for being progressive, multicultural, integrated etc.

She's been told twice last week that she's "one of the nice immigrants, it's the others we want rid of" and once (Friday) that "the country has spoken and we don't want you here". This morning Ali was at work alone, and someone came in specifically to shout "Fukk off out of our country" before running away. Reducing her to tears.
We've also heard directly from patients (specifically 2 Italians and a German) who've had similar situations within Tewkesbury.
I have written to our MP asking him to publicly condemn such behaviour as some people really do seem to think it socially acceptable now.

I also don't know what to do personally. Obviously, I have come into work just to be present on the front desk - and I am wearing my France rugby top.
If it happens again I know full well that I would want to chase the tw@ down the street; but that can only aggaravate things. I've also considered getting a CCTV system to cover reception - which is considered a public space and I believe I'd need a licence to do so; and that it would be illegal to shame people by putting anything it caught up on facebook regardless.

[Digby]

its exactly what Remain warned of, is it not? Not that that helps.

I don't know anyone who doesn't think uncertainty a problem, but yes they did, though I think remain may have also warned Lord Lucan would come back to kidnap the children, they certainly covered many bases with their warnings.

true, overplayed it, plus a load of folks didn't give a crap about or didn't care about the impact on 'business' (I assume you don't know everyone in the country )

The outstandingly stupid part is very little is likely to change, other than a bunch of lawyers will get to take a bunch of EU laws and write near identical versions to be brought in as UK laws, and I assume we're going to have to do bulk lots else parliament can't possibly have the time to do it (even before a fight over a new PM and then a General Election) with some sort of review clause. But without knowing what might change, or when, we're very likely to be screwed for no sodding reason whatsoever.

[Banquo]

"Project Fear" is alive and well - with the abuse of immigrants.
I posted the first part of this elsewhere on Friday, but not here as it would have been a significant side-track from the discussion at the time; but now... I kinda want the story told.
Alison moved over from France 19 years ago respecting the country for being progressive, multicultural, integrated etc.

She's been told twice last week that she's "one of the nice immigrants, it's the others we want rid of" and once (Friday) that "the country has spoken and we don't want you here". This morning Ali was at work alone, and someone came in specifically to shout "Fukk off out of our country" before running away. Reducing her to tears.
We've also heard directly from patients (specifically 2 Italians and a German) who've had similar situations within Tewkesbury.
I have written to our MP asking him to publicly condemn such behaviour as some people really do seem to think it socially acceptable now.

I also don't know what to do personally. Obviously, I have come into work just to be present on the front desk - and I am wearing my France rugby top.
If it happens again I know full well that I would want to chase the tw@ down the street; but that can only aggaravate things. I've also considered getting a CCTV system to cover reception - which is considered a public space and I believe I'd need a licence to do so; and that it would be illegal to shame people by putting anything it caught up on facebook regardless.

That's shocking- you have my utmost sympathy. I don't know what to say- nation of bell-ends.

[Stom]

BTW, one big repercussion over here (and elsewhere across the world).

ATMS refusing British cards and money exchanges refusing to change sterling. I'm lucky, I only have a small amount of pounds and can wait to change it as long as I want. But I know people who live off a British card, and they're fecked. The only machines accepting their cards are the independent ones that cost like 3 quid to use.

cripes! is that a temporary thing?

Technically, although the reason is that the currency is fluctuating too much for them. In which case it could go on for a while...

Which is insane.

But the pound disintegrating is very good for me personally...

[Sandydragon]

"Project Fear" is alive and well - with the abuse of immigrants.
I posted the first part of this elsewhere on Friday, but not here as it would have been a significant side-track from the discussion at the time; but now... I kinda want the story told.
Alison moved over from France 19 years ago respecting the country for being progressive, multicultural, integrated etc.

She's been told twice last week that she's "one of the nice immigrants, it's the others we want rid of" and once (Friday) that "the country has spoken and we don't want you here". This morning Ali was at work alone, and someone came in specifically to shout "Fukk off out of our country" before running away. Reducing her to tears.
We've also heard directly from patients (specifically 2 Italians and a German) who've had similar situations within Tewkesbury.
I have written to our MP asking him to publicly condemn such behaviour as some people really do seem to think it socially acceptable now.

I also don't know what to do personally. Obviously, I have come into work just to be present on the front desk - and I am wearing my France rugby top.
If it happens again I know full well that I would want to chase the tw@ down the street; but that can only aggaravate things. I've also considered getting a CCTV system to cover reception - which is considered a public space and I believe I'd need a licence to do so; and that it would be illegal to shame people by putting anything it caught up on facebook regardless.

If its your reception area then you are perfectly entitled to install CCTV. You will need to have prominent posters warning those who enter that CCTV is in operation and have a policy for the storage of imagery captured, its protection and when and to whom it can be released.

[Banquo]

BTW, one big repercussion over here (and elsewhere across the world).

ATMS refusing British cards and money exchanges refusing to change sterling. I'm lucky, I only have a small amount of pounds and can wait to change it as long as I want. But I know people who live off a British card, and they're fecked. The only machines accepting their cards are the independent ones that cost like 3 quid to use.

cripes! is that a temporary thing?

Technically, although the reason is that the currency is fluctuating too much for them. In which case it could go on for a while...

Which is insane.

But the pound disintegrating is very good for me personally...

I'm so happy for you!

[Mellsblue]

BTW, one big repercussion over here (and elsewhere across the world).

ATMS refusing British cards and money exchanges refusing to change sterling. I'm lucky, I only have a small amount of pounds and can wait to change it as long as I want. But I know people who live off a British card, and they're fecked. The only machines accepting their cards are the independent ones that cost like 3 quid to use.

cripes! is that a temporary thing?

Technically, although the reason is that the currency is fluctuating too much for them. In which case it could go on for a while...

Which is insane.

But the pound disintegrating is very good for me personally...

Aren't you in Budapest (my favourite city in the world)? If so, surely this is against EU law. Free movement of goods and services, and all that.

[Stom]

cripes! is that a temporary thing?

Technically, although the reason is that the currency is fluctuating too much for them. In which case it could go on for a while...

Which is insane.

But the pound disintegrating is very good for me personally...

Aren't you in Budapest (my favourite city in the world)? If so, surely this is against EU law. Free movement of goods and services, and all that.

I don't know. It's second hand news for me, as I have no need for sterling, but I've heard of several cases here in Budapest, and also reports from Spain, too.

[Digby]

cripes! is that a temporary thing?

Technically, although the reason is that the currency is fluctuating too much for them. In which case it could go on for a while...

Which is insane.

But the pound disintegrating is very good for me personally...

Aren't you in Budapest (my favourite city in the world)? If so, surely this is against EU law. Free movement of goods and services, and all that.

But people are free to provide a service, they're simply choosing not to

[Stom]

Technically, although the reason is that the currency is fluctuating too much for them. In which case it could go on for a while...

Which is insane.

But the pound disintegrating is very good for me personally...

Aren't you in Budapest (my favourite city in the world)? If so, surely this is against EU law. Free movement of goods and services, and all that.

I don't know. It's second hand news for me, as I have no need for sterling, but I've heard of several cases here in Budapest, and also reports from Spain, too.

But it could be related to this:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 05196.html

[Len]

"Project Fear" is alive and well - with the abuse of immigrants.
I posted the first part of this elsewhere on Friday, but not here as it would have been a significant side-track from the discussion at the time; but now... I kinda want the story told.
Alison moved over from France 19 years ago respecting the country for being progressive, multicultural, integrated etc.

She's been told twice last week that she's "one of the nice immigrants, it's the others we want rid of" and once (Friday) that "the country has spoken and we don't want you here". This morning Ali was at work alone, and someone came in specifically to shout "Fukk off out of our country" before running away. Reducing her to tears.
We've also heard directly from patients (specifically 2 Italians and a German) who've had similar situations within Tewkesbury.
I have written to our MP asking him to publicly condemn such behaviour as some people really do seem to think it socially acceptable now.

I also don't know what to do personally. Obviously, I have come into work just to be present on the front desk - and I am wearing my France rugby top.
If it happens again I know full well that I would want to chase the tw@ down the street; but that can only aggaravate things. I've also considered getting a CCTV system to cover reception - which is considered a public space and I believe I'd need a licence to do so; and that it would be illegal to shame people by putting anything it caught up on facebook regardless.

A guy at work came up to me on Saturday morning and told me 'you have to go home now'

He knows I'm a kiwi but doesn't actually know I'm here on a German passport which is interesting. Anyway I flared up a bit and he back pedalled.

I've always been spoken to as on of the 'good immigrants' maybe now any immigrant is a target? I have to say the stuff the Poms have said about the Eastern Europeans in the factory in front of me is disgraceful. Nearby Bognor Regis is packed with Polish migrants who were already dispised, god knows what it will be like there now. There were Polish girls crying at work on Friday for what people had been saying to them. If this keeps up I don't want anything to do with the UK or its people. I hope NZ and Australia share my view.

[Digby]

One of the regular conversations I've had the last few years with a number of Indian IT staff coming over for 6-12 month contracts is explaining to them why people are shouting Paki at them on the streets, along with some other less than pleasant comments. It's pathetic, but that's seemingly 51.8% of the voting population (I'm allowing there's likely a 0.1% who voted on sovereignty)

[Mellsblue]

Technically, although the reason is that the currency is fluctuating too much for them. In which case it could go on for a while...

Which is insane.

But the pound disintegrating is very good for me personally...

Aren't you in Budapest (my favourite city in the world)? If so, surely this is against EU law. Free movement of goods and services, and all that.

But people are free to provide a service, they're simply choosing not to

It was more the 'goods'.