Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:04 am
Adaptations of zombie video games couldn't be more different than these two:
The Last of Us is high-quality, grimly serious stuff. Not much originality - it plays as The Walking Dead meets The Road (albeit not quite as depressing) - but the relationship between the leads carries the show.
► Show Spoiler
The last episode is a bit of a let-down, as the indestructible Joel massacres the Fireflies. There could have been an interesting debate about one person's sacrifice for the greater good but the Fireflies are so despicable that we get a bloodbath instead.
Resident Evil is much dumber, but what it loses in quality it makes up for in quantity. There's so much going on, so many twists in the split-timeline story that it's an enjoyable ride, even if you have to switch your brain off occasionally.
► Show Spoiler
I didn't think the Fireflies were presented as despicable, at least, not more than anybody else. If it's a choice between ending the apocalypse and one death, then I understand (if not necessarily agree with) what they've done. Yes, they're abhorrent for taking away Ellie's agency by doping her and planning to harvest her brain without asking her consent, but Joel is exactly the same by making the decision that everyone who could possibly have come after her needed to die and then lying to her about it, so that she wouldn't have the option to make the choice that he didn't want her to. Everyone's making decisions *for* and *about* Ellie and whether she should be sacrificed to save the world, except for Ellie herself, who they specifically prevent from knowing a choice even exists in case she chooses the "wrong" one.
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:04 am
Adaptations of zombie video games couldn't be more different than these two:
The Last of Us is high-quality, grimly serious stuff. Not much originality - it plays as The Walking Dead meets The Road (albeit not quite as depressing) - but the relationship between the leads carries the show.
► Show Spoiler
The last episode is a bit of a let-down, as the indestructible Joel massacres the Fireflies. There could have been an interesting debate about one person's sacrifice for the greater good but the Fireflies are so despicable that we get a bloodbath instead.
Resident Evil is much dumber, but what it loses in quality it makes up for in quantity. There's so much going on, so many twists in the split-timeline story that it's an enjoyable ride, even if you have to switch your brain off occasionally.
► Show Spoiler
I didn't think the Fireflies were presented as despicable, at least, not more than anybody else. If it's a choice between ending the apocalypse and one death, then I understand (if not necessarily agree with) what they've done. Yes, they're abhorrent for taking away Ellie's agency by doping her and planning to harvest her brain without asking her consent, but Joel is exactly the same by making the decision that everyone who could possibly have come after her needed to die and then lying to her about it, so that she wouldn't have the option to make the choice that he didn't want her to. Everyone's making decisions *for* and *about* Ellie and whether she should be sacrificed to save the world, except for Ellie herself, who they specifically prevent from knowing a choice even exists in case she chooses the "wrong" one.
Puja
► Show Spoiler
The Fireflies' goal is a good one, even a humanity-saving, heroic one, but their method is pretty 'evil', or is presented as such, especially when compared with the surrogate dad saving his little girl thing that Joel has. I know it's all kind of grim and depressing but the story does make it a lot harder to sympathize with the potential humanity-savers than the homicidal protective dad. It's not exactly presented as a dilemma.
....obviously, morality aside there are big story problems like:
When Joel and Ellie arrive at the Fireflies' hospital they meet Marlene, who sent Joel on the mission in the first place. So why didn't Marlene just bring Ellie herself?
Marlene thinks the contents of Ellie's head are important enough to kill her, but not important enough to kill Joel, or even keep him locked up till the operation is done.
Even after Joel has massacred the Fireflies, the allegedly tough Marlene still makes the (instantly fatal) error of giving him the chance to change his mind rather than shooting him in the back and salvaging her plan to save humanity.
Did it have the scene after all of this with Ellie asking Joel about what really happened? I remember feeling very conflicted about Joel's actions, as we're supposed to, but that scene afterwards really made it work and made Ellie a much more interesting character.
I didn't watch much past episode 1 because it was essentially a shot for shot remake of the game for the most part, so it felt like I'd already seen it. I'm still a bit unsure how I feel about that, but I saw the third episode and thought it was really interesting for them to flesh out some of the other characters rather than re-creating cut-scenes. It pissed Ben Shapiro off too so that's another positive.
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:04 am
Adaptations of zombie video games couldn't be more different than these two:
The Last of Us is high-quality, grimly serious stuff. Not much originality - it plays as The Walking Dead meets The Road (albeit not quite as depressing) - but the relationship between the leads carries the show.
► Show Spoiler
The last episode is a bit of a let-down, as the indestructible Joel massacres the Fireflies. There could have been an interesting debate about one person's sacrifice for the greater good but the Fireflies are so despicable that we get a bloodbath instead.
Resident Evil is much dumber, but what it loses in quality it makes up for in quantity. There's so much going on, so many twists in the split-timeline story that it's an enjoyable ride, even if you have to switch your brain off occasionally.
► Show Spoiler
I didn't think the Fireflies were presented as despicable, at least, not more than anybody else. If it's a choice between ending the apocalypse and one death, then I understand (if not necessarily agree with) what they've done. Yes, they're abhorrent for taking away Ellie's agency by doping her and planning to harvest her brain without asking her consent, but Joel is exactly the same by making the decision that everyone who could possibly have come after her needed to die and then lying to her about it, so that she wouldn't have the option to make the choice that he didn't want her to. Everyone's making decisions *for* and *about* Ellie and whether she should be sacrificed to save the world, except for Ellie herself, who they specifically prevent from knowing a choice even exists in case she chooses the "wrong" one.
Puja
► Show Spoiler
The Fireflies' goal is a good one, even a humanity-saving, heroic one, but their method is pretty 'evil', or is presented as such, especially when compared with the surrogate dad saving his little girl thing that Joel has. I know it's all kind of grim and depressing but the story does make it a lot harder to sympathize with the potential humanity-savers than the homicidal protective dad. It's not exactly presented as a dilemma.
....obviously, morality aside there are big story problems like:
When Joel and Ellie arrive at the Fireflies' hospital they meet Marlene, who sent Joel on the mission in the first place. So why didn't Marlene just bring Ellie herself?
Marlene thinks the contents of Ellie's head are important enough to kill her, but not important enough to kill Joel, or even keep him locked up till the operation is done.
Even after Joel has massacred the Fireflies, the allegedly tough Marlene still makes the (instantly fatal) error of giving him the chance to change his mind rather than shooting him in the back and salvaging her plan to save humanity.
... nonetheless, a good show!
► Show Spoiler
Oh, the plot holes in the last episode are egregious. Marlene even specifically mentions how dangerous she considers Joel and how big of a risk he is, and then GIVES HIM A KNIFE FOR SENTIMENTAL REASONS before ordering him moved with just a couple of guards. It was so incompetent that I originally thought she'd done it on purpose because she wanted him to rescue Ellie. Mind, this is also the show that allowed Joel to get magical penicillin that took him from death's door sepsis and gaping stomach wound to being able to overpower a succession of uninjured men in the space of an afternoon.
I didn't necessarily feel that the Fireflies were presented as evil - obviously they are from the perspective of Joel and his PTSD and trauma and his replacement daughter, but Marlene got to set out her case of "It's Ellie or it's the world" and the surgeon's desperation and pleading resulting in him choosing to die rather than allow this one-off opportunity to fix the planet go. I also liked that Joel's rampage wasn't framed or filmed as a heroic action-hero charge, which is could so easily have been. I was happy with the presentation of the moral dilemma myself, but that's just my perspective.
Did it have the scene after all of this with Ellie asking Joel about what really happened? I remember feeling very conflicted about Joel's actions, as we're supposed to, but that scene afterwards really made it work and made Ellie a much more interesting character.
I didn't watch much past episode 1 because it was essentially a shot for shot remake of the game for the most part, so it felt like I'd already seen it. I'm still a bit unsure how I feel about that, but I saw the third episode and thought it was really interesting for them to flesh out some of the other characters rather than re-creating cut-scenes. It pissed Ben Shapiro off too so that's another positive.
► Show Spoiler
Yes, it had that scene. Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey were excellent all season, but they outdid themselves in that scene - the clearly broken Joel leaping two footed into treating Ellie as his daughter and Ellie wanting to believe his story, but having her bullshit meter needle flying off the scale.
I've heard it did stay very true to the game all the way through. Good for me, as I haven't played the games, but I had been wondering if there was any value in the adaptation to people who had. The third episode was amazing and made me cry like a baby, as well as the bonus of upsetting Shapiro.
I didn't think the Fireflies were presented as despicable, at least, not more than anybody else. If it's a choice between ending the apocalypse and one death, then I understand (if not necessarily agree with) what they've done. Yes, they're abhorrent for taking away Ellie's agency by doping her and planning to harvest her brain without asking her consent, but Joel is exactly the same by making the decision that everyone who could possibly have come after her needed to die and then lying to her about it, so that she wouldn't have the option to make the choice that he didn't want her to. Everyone's making decisions *for* and *about* Ellie and whether she should be sacrificed to save the world, except for Ellie herself, who they specifically prevent from knowing a choice even exists in case she chooses the "wrong" one.
Puja
► Show Spoiler
The Fireflies' goal is a good one, even a humanity-saving, heroic one, but their method is pretty 'evil', or is presented as such, especially when compared with the surrogate dad saving his little girl thing that Joel has. I know it's all kind of grim and depressing but the story does make it a lot harder to sympathize with the potential humanity-savers than the homicidal protective dad. It's not exactly presented as a dilemma.
....obviously, morality aside there are big story problems like:
When Joel and Ellie arrive at the Fireflies' hospital they meet Marlene, who sent Joel on the mission in the first place. So why didn't Marlene just bring Ellie herself?
Marlene thinks the contents of Ellie's head are important enough to kill her, but not important enough to kill Joel, or even keep him locked up till the operation is done.
Even after Joel has massacred the Fireflies, the allegedly tough Marlene still makes the (instantly fatal) error of giving him the chance to change his mind rather than shooting him in the back and salvaging her plan to save humanity.
... nonetheless, a good show!
► Show Spoiler
Oh, the plot holes in the last episode are egregious. Marlene even specifically mentions how dangerous she considers Joel and how big of a risk he is, and then GIVES HIM A KNIFE FOR SENTIMENTAL REASONS before ordering him moved with just a couple of guards. It was so incompetent that I originally thought she'd done it on purpose because she wanted him to rescue Ellie. Mind, this is also the show that allowed Joel to get magical penicillin that took him from death's door sepsis and gaping stomach wound to being able to overpower a succession of uninjured men in the space of an afternoon.
I didn't necessarily feel that the Fireflies were presented as evil - obviously they are from the perspective of Joel and his PTSD and trauma and his replacement daughter, but Marlene got to set out her case of "It's Ellie or it's the world" and the surgeon's desperation and pleading resulting in him choosing to die rather than allow this one-off opportunity to fix the planet go. I also liked that Joel's rampage wasn't framed or filmed as a heroic action-hero charge, which is could so easily have been. I was happy with the presentation of the moral dilemma myself, but that's just my perspective.
Did it have the scene after all of this with Ellie asking Joel about what really happened? I remember feeling very conflicted about Joel's actions, as we're supposed to, but that scene afterwards really made it work and made Ellie a much more interesting character.
I didn't watch much past episode 1 because it was essentially a shot for shot remake of the game for the most part, so it felt like I'd already seen it. I'm still a bit unsure how I feel about that, but I saw the third episode and thought it was really interesting for them to flesh out some of the other characters rather than re-creating cut-scenes. It pissed Ben Shapiro off too so that's another positive.
► Show Spoiler
Yes, it had that scene. Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey were excellent all season, but they outdid themselves in that scene - the clearly broken Joel leaping two footed into treating Ellie as his daughter and Ellie wanting to believe his story, but having her bullshit meter needle flying off the scale.
I've heard it did stay very true to the game all the way through. Good for me, as I haven't played the games, but I had been wondering if there was any value in the adaptation to people who had. The third episode was amazing and made me cry like a baby, as well as the bonus of upsetting Shapiro.
Puja
Yeah, I love it when a show takes an unexpected detour away from the main characters.
Finished the 4th and final season of Servant. It's worth watching if you liked The Omen or Rosemary's Baby and/or M. Night Shyamalan. Its best feature is the unrelenting creepy atmosphere. On the negative side, there's only really enough plot for one season and after 4 seasons I would have appreciated a less ambiguous final explanation. The complete lack of sympathetic characters is an interesting choice.
WandaVision is worth watching, particularly for the strangeness of the early episodes. It lets itself down by the end but is certainly an unusual offering from Marvel.
► Show Spoiler
The early weirdness may not be everyone's cup of tea - I guess they're a blast for fans of early US sitcoms - but are certainly brave. The unraveling of the mystery is good. The resolution is typical Marvel Movie . . . and apart from the effects is pretty poor.
Awful morality in the climax - Wanda has enslaved an entire town for months but Agatha is the villain? As the townspeople watch Wanda angrily at the end, she's told not to worry as 'they don't know what she's sacrificed' in order to release them . . . from the mental torture and imprisonment she's wilfully inflicted on them. And the whole situation makes no sense anyway - there's no reason for her to capture the town - all she wants is to recreate Vision. And the recreation of the sitcoms . . . even if she was a huge fan, this makes very little sense, and there's certainly no purpose to her broadcasting the sitcoms.
It was nice to see the two Visions talking about the Ship of Theseus though.
It was so much easier to blame Them. It was bleakly depressing to think They were Us. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Donny osmond wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:29 pm
Greg Davies in The Cleaner
The latest Inside No 9 episode
Barry
All great
Was that the game show episode of Inside No. 9? Looks like they still have interesting ideas even in the last season of the show.
It was yes. I'd seen some headlines saying record number of complaints about a Lee Mack game show, but hadn't put 2 and 2 together. Did people really think it was a game show? It seems obvious that it wasn't even before the ending. Very very funny.
It was so much easier to blame Them. It was bleakly depressing to think They were Us. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Donny osmond wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 10:29 pm
Greg Davies in The Cleaner
The latest Inside No 9 episode
Barry
All great
Was that the game show episode of Inside No. 9? Looks like they still have interesting ideas even in the last season of the show.
It was yes. I'd seen some headlines saying record number of complaints about a Lee Mack game show, but hadn't put 2 and 2 together. Did people really think it was a game show? It seems obvious that it wasn't even before the ending. Very very funny.
I did wonder how many grannies had heart attacks when
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 1:49 pm
Was that the game show episode of Inside No. 9? Looks like they still have interesting ideas even in the last season of the show.
It was yes. I'd seen some headlines saying record number of complaints about a Lee Mack game show, but hadn't put 2 and 2 together. Did people really think it was a game show? It seems obvious that it wasn't even before the ending. Very very funny.
I did wonder how many grannies had heart attacks when
► Show Spoiler
someone's head exploded
on that nice Lee Mack's new show.
I loved that it was an inside no 9 episode without featuring either of the actors that would be associated with that, which I guess is why people apparently got suckered into thinking it was something else. Like you say, they are still coming out with interesting stuff, even after all this time. It's hard to be truly original but these guys are.
It was so much easier to blame Them. It was bleakly depressing to think They were Us. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
I've really been enjoying From. It starts off as the best Stephen King story not written by Stephen King. Then as the story progresses I thought it was in danger of getting bogged down in Lost territory but it avoids the worst excesses of that sprawling mess. An an ongoing fantasy horror it's very good.
Silo is worth watching if you're into dystopian SciFi. It's a pretty straight adaptation of Hugh Howey's Silo series (of which I've only read the first, Wool).
Unwisely ....
► Show Spoiler
they've decided to pad out the story so we only get halfway through Wool by the end of season 1 (it would have been better to do the whole book, but . . . $$$). So the action flags a little halfway through.
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:09 pm
Silo is worth watching if you're into dystopian SciFi. It's a pretty straight adaptation of Hugh Howey's Silo series (of which I've only read the first, Wool).
Unwisely ....
► Show Spoiler
they've decided to pad out the story so we only get halfway through Wool by the end of season 1 (it would have been better to do the whole book, but . . . $$$). So the action flags a little halfway through.
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:09 pm
Silo is worth watching if you're into dystopian SciFi. It's a pretty straight adaptation of Hugh Howey's Silo series (of which I've only read the first, Wool).
Unwisely ....
► Show Spoiler
they've decided to pad out the story so we only get halfway through Wool by the end of season 1 (it would have been better to do the whole book, but . . . $$$). So the action flags a little halfway through.
Still pretty good though.
The books series is weird, because they have Wool, which is a fairly straightforward standalone story, but then it's followed up by Shift, which is a huge glob of backstory, exposition, flashbacks, character depth, plus some side stuff that isn't necessary at all. That makes the second book exceptionally hard work to read - feels more like a collection of short stories than anything with a plot - but the third book, Dust, draws upon all the stuff established in Book 2 and uses it really well.
I wonder if the padding out is them trying to incorporate the lore and the backstory from Book 2 into the show in a more natural way - so they cover books 1 and 2 in two series, but all mixed together instead of the good first and difficult second.
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:09 pm
Silo is worth watching if you're into dystopian SciFi. It's a pretty straight adaptation of Hugh Howey's Silo series (of which I've only read the first, Wool).
Unwisely ....
► Show Spoiler
they've decided to pad out the story so we only get halfway through Wool by the end of season 1 (it would have been better to do the whole book, but . . . $$$). So the action flags a little halfway through.
Still pretty good though.
I quite enjoyed that as well. Thought it started well but tailed off a little mid series before finishing really well. Looking forward to series two whenever that’s released.
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:09 pm
Silo is worth watching if you're into dystopian SciFi. It's a pretty straight adaptation of Hugh Howey's Silo series (of which I've only read the first, Wool).
Unwisely ....
► Show Spoiler
they've decided to pad out the story so we only get halfway through Wool by the end of season 1 (it would have been better to do the whole book, but . . . $$$). So the action flags a little halfway through.
Still pretty good though.
The books series is weird, because they have Wool, which is a fairly straightforward standalone story, but then it's followed up by Shift, which is a huge glob of backstory, exposition, flashbacks, character depth, plus some side stuff that isn't necessary at all. That makes the second book exceptionally hard work to read - feels more like a collection of short stories than anything with a plot - but the third book, Dust, draws upon all the stuff established in Book 2 and uses it really well.
I wonder if the padding out is them trying to incorporate the lore and the backstory from Book 2 into the show in a more natural way - so they cover books 1 and 2 in two series, but all mixed together instead of the good first and difficult second.
Puja
Yeah, that's why I haven't read further than Wool - I couldn't face a big book that was 100% backstory. Hopefully they manage to get that backstory into the show in a more palatable way.
I think (at this speed) it'll take them another 10 episodes just to cover the rest of Wool though - just took a look at it, we're not quite halfway through yet.
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:09 pm
Silo is worth watching if you're into dystopian SciFi. It's a pretty straight adaptation of Hugh Howey's Silo series (of which I've only read the first, Wool).
Unwisely ....
► Show Spoiler
they've decided to pad out the story so we only get halfway through Wool by the end of season 1 (it would have been better to do the whole book, but . . . $$$). So the action flags a little halfway through.
Still pretty good though.
I quite enjoyed that as well. Thought it started well but tailed off a little mid series before finishing really well. Looking forward to series two whenever that’s released.
Yeah, it's nicely handled and acted. And we should be grateful they didn't turn it into yet another young adult adventure - I'm sure they were tempted. Maybe they saw The 100 and thought just no.
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:09 pm
Silo is worth watching if you're into dystopian SciFi. It's a pretty straight adaptation of Hugh Howey's Silo series (of which I've only read the first, Wool).
Unwisely ....
► Show Spoiler
they've decided to pad out the story so we only get halfway through Wool by the end of season 1 (it would have been better to do the whole book, but . . . $$$). So the action flags a little halfway through.
Still pretty good though.
I quite enjoyed that as well. Thought it started well but tailed off a little mid series before finishing really well. Looking forward to series two whenever that’s released.
Yeah, it's nicely handled and acted. And we should be grateful they didn't turn it into yet another young adult adventure - I'm sure they were tempted. Maybe they saw The 100 and thought just no.
Or Allegiant and the other films in that series which are just utter crap
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:11 pm
I quite enjoyed that as well. Thought it started well but tailed off a little mid series before finishing really well. Looking forward to series two whenever that’s released.
Yeah, it's nicely handled and acted. And we should be grateful they didn't turn it into yet another young adult adventure - I'm sure they were tempted. Maybe they saw The 100 and thought just no.
Or Allegiant and the other films in that series which are just utter crap
In some parallel universe they tried to turn Game of Thrones into a YA series. I don't want to think about it.
The Hunger Games films are fine but nothing's better simply for being YA. Unless you enjoy clueless, excitable heroes.
