Bankruptcies good for English Rugby?

[Oakboy]

I'm not sure this is worth a new thread but I could not see anywhere relevant to put it.

Basically, seeing Pearson perform for Saints and other LI, Wasps and Worcester cast-offs look good, does this herald a signpost for improvement? Might the reduction by three teams concentrate playing talent in to the rest to good effect?

I think England have the edge on other nations in bringing younger players through IF, IF, SB has the nerve, judgement and coaching ability to change the playing style positively. In last night's game Healey, in one of his brighter moments, said it didn't matter what number Freeman had on his back. Get him in and play a style that gets him on the ball frequently - or words to that effect.

Maybe, it doesn't matter quite so much whether we have a 'proper 12' or a 'proper 6'. Just get the best players on the park, encourage them to express themselves, add in routines to develop continuity and let's play other teams off the pitch.

Reducing the number of teams, educating a few in France and thinking positively might just be just what we needed.

[Which Tyler]

Bankruptcies - no
Reducing the Prem to 10 and concentrating the top talent - yes (Especially IF combined with proper funding and exposure for the Championship - without franchises)

WhodAThunkIt?

[fivepointer]

10 teams in the top division is the right number. That we got there by clubs going bust isnt a great advert for the game.

[Slater582]

Did the Telegraph article inspire this thread Oakboy?



It makes the point it's not just about the players. Ross McMillan is now at Exeter and Lee Blackett works for Bath.

[Oakboy]

No, I did not see that article. It was more that players from the three lost clubs seemed to be flourishing and taking their new clubs with them. I've always believed in momentum. Any sports team that gets on a roll takes some stopping. There is something about self-belief that really counts with rugby.

I suppose my main hope is that the national team can climb on to the bandwagon. Getting the best out of players (obviously) is key and failure to do so was always my main criticism of Jones. Now, I think the potential for development of a top class batch of players is at its highest for some time as highlighted by Freeman, Batbeary etc. I believe the players ARE good enough. I'm not sure yet if the coaching crew is.

[Mikey Brown]

Are you confusing Freeman with someone else? He's been at Saints the whole time.

If strengthening of the top teams means they can make a bigger impact in Europe you could argue that's a big success, but you could also argue the next Pearson/Barbeary/Atkinson is now further down the pecking order at their club (or not picked up by a club at all) than they would have been. I broadly agree that 10 teams seems about right.

Nice of Gloucester to keep Newcastle company down at the bottom of the table, as they really look in a poor way now.

[Oakboy]

Are you confusing Freeman with someone else? He's been at Saints the whole time.

If strengthening of the top teams means they can make a bigger impact in Europe you could argue that's a big success, but you could also argue the next Pearson/Barbeary/Atkinson is now further down the pecking order at their club (or not picked up by a club at all) than they would have been. I broadly agree that 10 teams seems about right.

Nice of Gloucester to keep Newcastle company down at the bottom of the table, as they really look in a poor way now.

No, sorry, I mentioned Freeman in the context generally of the players being good enough. I understand what you say about young players' development but I'd counter that by saying that too many clubs (within the silly situation of club/country fixture clashes especially) have tended to justify journeymen foreigners' wages by picking them anyway.

As ever, it's more hope than expectation to an extent with England. It would be great to see cause for optimism after the last stretch of turgidity.

As for Europe, it is such a mixed bag. The French continue to concentrate on home matches. Losing several games does not cost them. SA sides should not be there. The competition has too many teams. The shape of it is plain weird. Are Leicester and Saracens suddenly poor sides? The catch-all defence of the European competition generally was that it was a step up from the Prem and close to international standard. Now, though? The difference in standard between some games and others is ridiculous.

[Epaminondas Pules]

There is an oddity in all this. Reducing the number of teams to ten should also reduce the opportunities for young players to game meaningful gametime at the top level. But what we are seeing is the opposite of that for some players. There is an argument to say these players have the potential for very high (international) ceilings, and would have broken through regardless. Some already had, others less so at the time of their clubs going belly up.

Pearson, Atkinson (S) and Barbeary were already starters, as was Fin Smith. But each had to re-establish themselves at their new clubs.

Fisilau arguably just went to the right club at the right time. Baxter has been good with young talent IF the talent shows signs of being good enough, and they'd just lost Simmonds and Ewers. He'd played four matches for Wasps before they folded. All of which were in the Prem cup. By the end of the season he'd done 8 games for Exeter including 4 Prem and 2 Champ Cup.

[Mellsblue]

My take is that if a player is good enough to play test rugby they’ll be picked for their club. There will be the odd exception where the incumbent is a scarcely injured test player but, even then, rest and rotation should give a good enough player plenty of opportunity to state his case.

[Stom]

My take is that if a player is good enough to play test rugby they’ll be picked for their club. There will be the odd exception where the incumbent is a scarcely injured test player but, even then, rest and rotation should give a good enough player plenty of opportunity to state his case.

There have been cases where young players have found journeymen parachuted in above them. I can't think of any off the top of my head, though...

With the level of our u20s in the years between the Marler generation and now, you'd have thought there'd have been more, higher quality England players. Is the reason that the players weren't actually good enough? Or that they didn't get the exposure/minutes they needed to thrive? Or that they were shackled with club coaches who did not care about their development and only wanted to win at whatever cost (cough, Cockers, cough)?

[Epaminondas Pules]

My take is that if a player is good enough to play test rugby they’ll be picked for their club. There will be the odd exception where the incumbent is a scarcely injured test player but, even then, rest and rotation should give a good enough player plenty of opportunity to state his case.

There have been cases where young players have found journeymen parachuted in above them. I can't think of any off the top of my head, though...

With the level of our u20s in the years between the Marler generation and now, you'd have thought there'd have been more, higher quality England players. Is the reason that the players weren't actually good enough? Or that they didn't get the exposure/minutes they needed to thrive? Or that they were shackled with club coaches who did not care about their development and only wanted to win at whatever cost (cough, Cockers, cough)?

Will Evans

A bit of all of that really. We had the golden generation of 2011, which has produced ridiculous numbers of internationals, and some huge cap numbers in that.

But then it's been somewhat of a mixed bag. For example the team that won in 2014. Maro Itoje, Charlie Ewels, Paul Hill, Jack Walker have all played for England, with only Maro being a standout. There;'s also Nick Tompkins, Paul Moriarty, Callum Braley and Billy Burns with international recognition. When you look at the squad there's not much that stands out. So that year, unfortunate injuries (Nathan Earle) aside, it's maybe a poorer year, despite being world champs.

The next year you add in Genge, Ludlam and Sam Skinner (Scotland). There's decent number of good Prem talent, but largely the squads are Prem quality and below, with the odd exception.

2016 (again world champs) gave us Malins, Marchant, Will Stuart, Jack Willis, Harry Randall, Ollie Thorley, Callum Chick, Jack Singleton and Johnny Williams (Wales). This side also included Will Evans.

Then we got Curry x 2, Ben Earl, Joe Heyes, Ted Hill, Tom Willis; and others got Dino Lamb and Ben White.

A year later you add in Marcus Smith, Nick Isiekwe and Cam Redpath.

Then Nic Dolly a year later, but others who are getting close like Dingwall and Barbeary.

Then in 2020 we push into George Martin, Freddie Steward, JVP, Raffi Quirke, Theo Dan.

Largely what we see at this level is each year there's a handful of internationals, with the odd top quality international, and a large proportion of players who disappear and Prem squad filler. 2011 was an absolute outlier and a freak year group.

We're about to, IMO, hit another 2011 type year group. But this one I think is split over 3/4 year groups, rather than the 2 in 2011.

[Oakboy]

That's an interesting list, thanks. Is Itoje the only certainty in an England shirt? Even he, arguably, paused in his progress.

It leaves me thinking that there is more lacking in the coaching - club and country - than in the player skill-sets. Even the management of physicality seems suspect judging by the number of injuries suffered by a lot of those players. Maybe boosting strength was more of a goal than developing skills.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I think it is more of a combination of things. There is an absolute chasm in ethos between age grade rugby and senior rugby. Age grade is built upon skills and actually having fun / playing what's in front of them and making mistakes. Senior rugby, has been, much more risk averse and formulaic. When you look back at some of the squads over the last decade you can see the overall quality isn't all that (2011 aside). There's pockets of real quality, but with hindsight there's one or two really stellar prospects and then just decent rugby players. Even the winning sides weren't brimming with exceptional talent. Scrum half would be a prime example where we produced largely mediocrity at age grade, bar the odd player for most of the last decade until Quirke and JVP. Now we've got Thomas, Bracken, McParland coming through.

We've really missed a trick with the lack of integration with the 7's squads that's been very successful for other countries.

The players are certainly much bigger across the board as they come into adult rugby (all countries are much of a muchness now), which makes the transition, physically, easier than it was. There used to be the old trope that all England did was lift tin at age grade, which was frankly bollocks then, and is still now. But the academy structures are much more focussed on size. Certainly some of them are.

Age grade rugby has changed significantly in the last 15 years. The games at school level are very attack and skills focussed.

For every Maro Itoje there's 5/6 Harry Sloans, Henry Taylors, Hayden Thomson-Stringers....

[Stom]

That's an interesting list, thanks. Is Itoje the only certainty in an England shirt? Even he, arguably, paused in his progress.

It leaves me thinking that there is more lacking in the coaching - club and country - than in the player skill-sets. Even the management of physicality seems suspect judging by the number of injuries suffered by a lot of those players. Maybe boosting strength was more of a goal than developing skills.

Itoje's only 'paused' because he became one of the best players in world rugby a few seasons ago...and hasn't let off!

The guy is a machine, stop questioning him.

[Stom]

I think it is more of a combination of things. There is an absolute chasm in ethos between age grade rugby and senior rugby. Age grade is built upon skills and actually having fun / playing what's in front of them and making mistakes. Senior rugby, has been, much more risk averse and formulaic. When you look back at some of the squads over the last decade you can see the overall quality isn't all that (2011 aside). There's pockets of real quality, but with hindsight there's one or two really stellar prospects and then just decent rugby players. Even the winning sides weren't brimming with exceptional talent. Scrum half would be a prime example where we produced largely mediocrity at age grade, bar the odd player for most of the last decade until Quirke and JVP. Now we've got Thomas, Bracken, McParland coming through.

We've really missed a trick with the lack of integration with the 7's squads that's been very successful for other countries.

The players are certainly much bigger across the board as they come into adult rugby (all countries are much of a muchness now), which makes the transition, physically, easier than it was. There used to be the old trope that all England did was lift tin at age grade, which was frankly bollocks then, and is still now. But the academy structures are much more focussed on size. Certainly some of them are.

Age grade rugby has changed significantly in the last 15 years. The games at school level are very attack and skills focussed.

For every Maro Itoje there's 5/6 Harry Sloans, Henry Taylors, Hayden Thomson-Stringers....

Looking at the integration of young players into club squads is interesting.

Quins have always been good at this, and we've seen in recent times the timely integration of young players, something that looks set to continue considering the opportunities given to the youngsters now.

Saracens have done really well at integrating, as have Exeter. Bath bring through players, and Leicester have started to go back to their academy.

But before the last 3/4 seasons, was that necessarily true? Were the players getting as many opportunities as they are now?

Or is the real "saviour" of English rugby the salary cap?

[Epaminondas Pules]

I think it is more of a combination of things. There is an absolute chasm in ethos between age grade rugby and senior rugby. Age grade is built upon skills and actually having fun / playing what's in front of them and making mistakes. Senior rugby, has been, much more risk averse and formulaic. When you look back at some of the squads over the last decade you can see the overall quality isn't all that (2011 aside). There's pockets of real quality, but with hindsight there's one or two really stellar prospects and then just decent rugby players. Even the winning sides weren't brimming with exceptional talent. Scrum half would be a prime example where we produced largely mediocrity at age grade, bar the odd player for most of the last decade until Quirke and JVP. Now we've got Thomas, Bracken, McParland coming through.

We've really missed a trick with the lack of integration with the 7's squads that's been very successful for other countries.

The players are certainly much bigger across the board as they come into adult rugby (all countries are much of a muchness now), which makes the transition, physically, easier than it was. There used to be the old trope that all England did was lift tin at age grade, which was frankly bollocks then, and is still now. But the academy structures are much more focussed on size. Certainly some of them are.

Age grade rugby has changed significantly in the last 15 years. The games at school level are very attack and skills focussed.

For every Maro Itoje there's 5/6 Harry Sloans, Henry Taylors, Hayden Thomson-Stringers....

Looking at the integration of young players into club squads is interesting.

Quins have always been good at this, and we've seen in recent times the timely integration of young players, something that looks set to continue considering the opportunities given to the youngsters now.

Saracens have done really well at integrating, as have Exeter. Bath bring through players, and Leicester have started to go back to their academy.

But before the last 3/4 seasons, was that necessarily true? Were the players getting as many opportunities as they are now?

Or is the real "saviour" of English rugby the salary cap?

Bit of a mix as always. Some clubs have shied away from their academies, only to reinvigorate it again (cough, Tigers, cough). It's that period of 18 - 22 / 23 years that matters, with every year a new intake coming into the bottom rung, and a huge amount comes down to the players, the need at the club, and opportunities. A few injuries gives a young un a chance. It's then about taking that chance. Tigers, for example, simply couldn't ignore Steward, JVP and Martin cause they were just too good. Ilione is having a harder time, but hasn't really taken his opportunities yet. Woodward is getting next to nothing, apart from Prem Cup. He's now 1 year out of U20s this season, so tick tock..... He's still only 20, so that's a bit harsh, but also the reality of professional sport.

[Slater582]

My take is that if a player is good enough to play test rugby they’ll be picked for their club. There will be the odd exception where the incumbent is a scarcely injured test player but, even then, rest and rotation should give a good enough player plenty of opportunity to state his case.

There have been cases where young players have found journeymen parachuted in above them. I can't think of any off the top of my head, though...

With the level of our u20s in the years between the Marler generation and now, you'd have thought there'd have been more, higher quality England players. Is the reason that the players weren't actually good enough? Or that they didn't get the exposure/minutes they needed to thrive? Or that they were shackled with club coaches who did not care about their development and only wanted to win at whatever cost (cough, Cockers, cough)?

Will Evans

A bit of all of that really. We had the golden generation of 2011, which has produced ridiculous numbers of internationals, and some huge cap numbers in that.

But then it's been somewhat of a mixed bag. For example the team that won in 2014. Maro Itoje, Charlie Ewels, Paul Hill, Jack Walker have all played for England, with only Maro being a standout. There;'s also Nick Tompkins, Paul Moriarty, Callum Braley and Billy Burns with international recognition. When you look at the squad there's not much that stands out. So that year, unfortunate injuries (Nathan Earle) aside, it's maybe a poorer year, despite being world champs.

The next year you add in Genge, Ludlam and Sam Skinner (Scotland). There's decent number of good Prem talent, but largely the squads are Prem quality and below, with the odd exception.

2016 (again world champs) gave us Malins, Marchant, Will Stuart, Jack Willis, Harry Randall, Ollie Thorley, Callum Chick, Jack Singleton and Johnny Williams (Wales). This side also included Will Evans.

Then we got Curry x 2, Ben Earl, Joe Heyes, Ted Hill, Tom Willis; and others got Dino Lamb and Ben White.

A year later you add in Marcus Smith, Nick Isiekwe and Cam Redpath.

Then Nic Dolly a year later, but others who are getting close like Dingwall and Barbeary.

Then in 2020 we push into George Martin, Freddie Steward, JVP, Raffi Quirke, Theo Dan.

Largely what we see at this level is each year there's a handful of internationals, with the odd top quality international, and a large proportion of players who disappear and Prem squad filler. 2011 was an absolute outlier and a freak year group.

We're about to, IMO, hit another 2011 type year group. But this one I think is split over 3/4 year groups, rather than the 2 in 2011.

There is an interesting article by Kitson in the Guardian, quotes Mapletoft who reckons 6-8 players in this years U20 squad have the potential to play Tests for England.

[Timbo]

I always thought the U20’s group we had in 2019 was among the most talented crop I’d see at that level for England. Dean Ryan was at peak Ryan to coach that lot to 2nd place in the 6N’s and 5th at the JWC. He had the likes of; Ted Hil, Josh Hodge, Tom Willis, Alex Coles, Joe Heyes, Ollie Sleightholme, Barbeary, Redpath, Dingwall, Ollie Lawrence, Rus Tuima, Joel Kpoku, Murley, Nic Dolly, Bevan Rodd, Marcus Smith and other very good prospects all available to him and did f’ all.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I always thought the U20’s group we had in 2019 was among the most talented crop I’d see at that level for England. Dean Ryan was at peak Ryan to coach that lot to 2nd place in the 6N’s and 5th at the JWC. He had the likes of; Ted Hil, Josh Hodge, Tom Willis, Alex Coles, Joe Heyes, Ollie Sleightholme, Barbeary, Redpath, Dingwall, Ollie Lawrence, Rus Tuima, Joel Kpoku, Murley, Nic Dolly, Bevan Rodd, Marcus Smith and other very good prospects all available to him and did f’ all.

Absolutely. One of the better year groups by a distance. If you look at those who have dropped by the wayside it is smaller than the norm, and oddly includes players like Hinckly who were very highly rated at this level but never made the next step. But the squad has very high numbers of integral first teamers who are there or there abouts internationally. Without checkin I'd wager in terms of first team games this is probably the highest squad since 2011.

And yes, Ryan being Ryan, ergo utter shitbox!

[Epaminondas Pules]

There have been cases where young players have found journeymen parachuted in above them. I can't think of any off the top of my head, though...

With the level of our u20s in the years between the Marler generation and now, you'd have thought there'd have been more, higher quality England players. Is the reason that the players weren't actually good enough? Or that they didn't get the exposure/minutes they needed to thrive? Or that they were shackled with club coaches who did not care about their development and only wanted to win at whatever cost (cough, Cockers, cough)?

Will Evans

A bit of all of that really. We had the golden generation of 2011, which has produced ridiculous numbers of internationals, and some huge cap numbers in that.

But then it's been somewhat of a mixed bag. For example the team that won in 2014. Maro Itoje, Charlie Ewels, Paul Hill, Jack Walker have all played for England, with only Maro being a standout. There;'s also Nick Tompkins, Paul Moriarty, Callum Braley and Billy Burns with international recognition. When you look at the squad there's not much that stands out. So that year, unfortunate injuries (Nathan Earle) aside, it's maybe a poorer year, despite being world champs.

The next year you add in Genge, Ludlam and Sam Skinner (Scotland). There's decent number of good Prem talent, but largely the squads are Prem quality and below, with the odd exception.

2016 (again world champs) gave us Malins, Marchant, Will Stuart, Jack Willis, Harry Randall, Ollie Thorley, Callum Chick, Jack Singleton and Johnny Williams (Wales). This side also included Will Evans.

Then we got Curry x 2, Ben Earl, Joe Heyes, Ted Hill, Tom Willis; and others got Dino Lamb and Ben White.

A year later you add in Marcus Smith, Nick Isiekwe and Cam Redpath.

Then Nic Dolly a year later, but others who are getting close like Dingwall and Barbeary.

Then in 2020 we push into George Martin, Freddie Steward, JVP, Raffi Quirke, Theo Dan.

Largely what we see at this level is each year there's a handful of internationals, with the odd top quality international, and a large proportion of players who disappear and Prem squad filler. 2011 was an absolute outlier and a freak year group.

We're about to, IMO, hit another 2011 type year group. But this one I think is split over 3/4 year groups, rather than the 2 in 2011.

There is an interesting article by Kitson in the Guardian, quotes Mapletoft who reckons 6-8 players in this years U20 squad have the potential to play Tests for England.

The U20 head coach Mark Mapletoft is convinced the pool of emerging talent can develop into World Cup winners in 2031

Robert Kitson
Tue 16 Jan 2024

That old proverb about reaping what you sow applies to rugby union more than most sports. Neglect your grass roots or your future crops and, sooner or later, it will catch up with you. Even in England, with its bigger playing numbers and resources, there can be no sidestepping the consequences of a fractured player development pathway.

One men’s Six Nations grand slam since 2003 remains one of the more sobering Twickenham statistics – and an obvious goal for those charged with producing England’s next batch of white-shirted stars. Yes, there have been two World Cup final appearances over those two decades but, lately, England has developed significantly fewer World XV candidates than, for example, South Africa, France, New Zealand or Ireland.

How interesting, then, to hear an expert in this particular field insist that some potential English world-beaters are lurking just over the horizon. They won’t be ready to rumble in next month’s Six Nations, or maybe even the 2027 World Cup, but England’s seasoned U20 head coach Mark Mapletoft firmly believes the longer term outlook is rosier. “I genuinely think young English players are as good as any in the world now,” he says. Would he be inclined to put his money on England winning the 2031 World Cup? “I certainly would be, if we get it right.”

Mapletoft, now back for a second stint with England U20s after a decade at Harlequins, has already seen enough to predict that six to eight – and maybe as many as 10 – of this year’s U20 intake have what it takes to be future Test players, an unusually high number. He prefers not to nominate specific individuals at this slightly premature stage but points to some of England’s recent age-group results. “If we’re in such a bad place, how come our U18s put 60 points on Wales, 50 points on Ireland and beat France 41-0 last year?”

So what has changed? The knowledgeable Mapletoft played alongside many of England’s 2003 World Cup winners and, in his previous stint with England’s age-group sides between 2008-10, oversaw an U20 grand slam and two junior World Cup final appearances. With the “golden generation” of Owen Farrell, George Ford, Elliot Daly et al subsequently emerging, England had the fledgling talent to compete with anyone. “We thought the 2015 World Cup, even though it was at home, would be too soon for us, but 2019 was the target,” recalls Mapletoft. Ultimately we fell at the last hurdle but we had a good squad.”

Somewhere along the way, however, the gushing fountain dried up. According to Mapletoft, the first worrying cracks were visible lower down the pipeline around 2013 and 2014, even though England won another junior U20 World Cup in 2016. “I can categorically say the cohort of academy players we had up to those years had the potential to go on to become good players. Then there was a definite drop off. And if it was happening at Quins, who were probably one of the best academies, it had to be happening elsewhere. Something went on around that space. Among other things I think the game got away from us financially at club level. There was clearly a lot of uncertainty around who was doing what, where and how at Premiership level. And then – boom – suddenly Covid came. I think it just set us back.”

It is only more recently, for instance, that full-time RFU staff have once again been hired to help players along the pot-holed pathway. For two or three years coaches attached to Premiership sides had previously been invited to double up, raising hackles among other rival clubs. “With all due respect those clubs don’t want staff from, say, London Irish contacting their players outside of competition time,” suggests Mapletoft.

There was also an increasing disconnect with the national senior coaching panel. “We’ve already had one meeting with Steve Borthwick about the pathway, which is one more than we had previously,” reports Mapletoft, who won a solitary England cap against Argentina in 1997. Reviving the England A team, to provide a crucial testing ground between the Premiership or international rugby, should be another major plus.

“Alongside a focus on the 2027 World Cup in Australia there has to be an underlying focus on 2031 in the United States,” continues the ex-Gloucester, Quins and London Irish fly-half. “The alignment piece between the ages of 16 to 20 is pointless if it doesn’t also exist between 20 to 24. The A team is a massive step in the right direction. Our job is not to produce world-class U18 or U20 teams. Our job is to produce world-class players to play in a world-class England team.”

And could it be, for all English rugby’s other current off-field arguments and the rising expectations across the Channel, that they get there sooner than anticipated. Despite heavy weekend defeats for Saracens and Leicester, six Premiership clubs should qualify for the last 16 of the Champions Cup. England’s former head coach Stuart Lancaster, now in charge of Racing 92, is among those who sense a youthful English renaissance. “The Premiership has improved. I thought Northampton were excellent the other night and so were Harlequins. The unintended consequence of three teams folding last season is that the other teams have got stronger.”

So watch this space. Beneath Borthwick’s reshuffled 2024 Six Nations squad list, to be unveiled this week, things are finally stirring. “There are a number of U20 players here who have the physical and rugby capacity to make it at the top level,” repeats Mapletoft. England to win the 2031 World Cup? Remember where you heard it first.

[Epaminondas Pules]

So from the current squad, some more obvious call outs for those who could make the full step:
Forwards
Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale Sharks)*
Cameron Miell (Leicester)
Craig Wright (Northampton)*
Jacob Oliver (Newcastle)
Afolabi Fasogbon (Gloucester)*
James Halliwell (Bristol)*
Billy Sela (Bath)
Joe Bailey (Exeter)*
Jack Bennett (Bath)
Olamide Sodeke (Saracens)
Finn Carnduff (Leicester)*
Harry Browne (Harlequins)*
Tom Burrow (Sale)
Nathan Michelow (Saracens)*
Reuben Logan (Northampton)
Henry Pollock (Northampton)
Zach Carr (Harlequins)*
Kane James (Exeter)
Lucas Schmid (Harlequins)

Backs
Archie McParland (Northampton)
Ollie Allan (Leicester)
Josh Bellamy (Harlequins)
Rory Taylor (Gloucester)
Alex Wills (Sale)*
Toby Cousins (Northampton)*
Sean Kerr (Harlequins)
Charlie Myall (Leicester)
Ben Waghorn (Harlequins)*
Will Glister (Northampton)
Malelili Satala (Leicester)
Ben Redshaw (Newcastle)
Ioan Jones (Gloucester)

The obvious call outs really that I expect most will be aware of. That said there's lots of talent that could make the step. Sodeke looks really good, not just as a physical specimen. Halliwell and Miell could be good cases, but not as well thought of (yet) as Opoku-Fordjour and Fasogbon, and Billy Sela from the year group below who has now stepped to U20. The backrow is very strong. Everyone knows Pollock who is the stand out, but the rest are quality, at this level.

Backs is tough. There is pace galore! Cousins is RAPID! But taking the next step is hard to predict. I'd earmark Rory Taylor, who is a really classy fly half. But then a year behind him is Ollie Davies who is an outstanding talent! McParland and Redshaw are obvious candidates. One thing I'd point to is the number of last years U18s who have stepped up.

It is a bloody good age group! Add in last years graduates and next years incomers and you might be right to get a little excited.

[Mellsblue]

‘We can now inform you that we have secured the core Sustainable finance and a Stadium in which to play. All we are waiting for is a competition to join that will allow us to compete at the highest level - and one that shares our values.’

Wasps reckon they have money and the stadium to join a league… at the highest level which shares their values, whatever that means.
https://www.wasps.co.uk/club-announceme ... ey-update/

[twitchy]

‘which shares their values, whatever that means.

Non blood (saudi) money?

[Epaminondas Pules]

‘We can now inform you that we have secured the core Sustainable finance and a Stadium in which to play. All we are waiting for is a competition to join that will allow us to compete at the highest level - and one that shares our values.’

Wasps reckon they have money and the stadium to join a league… at the highest level which shares their values, whatever that means.
https://www.wasps.co.uk/club-announceme ... ey-update/

Prestatyn Wasps?

[Mellsblue]

‘We can now inform you that we have secured the core Sustainable finance and a Stadium in which to play. All we are waiting for is a competition to join that will allow us to compete at the highest level - and one that shares our values.’

Wasps reckon they have money and the stadium to join a league… at the highest level which shares their values, whatever that means.
https://www.wasps.co.uk/club-announceme ... ey-update/

Prestatyn Wasps?

Nothing screams ‘highest level’ like Prestatyn.