FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:05 pm
Kelly was sensational in the title winning season. Strong argument for form 12 of the season and it was noticeable that Tigers attack dropped off after he got injured. He's never found the same consistent form since. Last season he was finally fit for a good run but McKellar's system just didn't suit him at all. Being stuck covering Kata flying out the line often left him hopelessly isolated in defence and knocked his confidence.
This season he's look much better but was an odd omission from the squad for the Sarries game which makes me think he's had some sort of niggling injury. The week before he was meant to be on the bench before being promoted after Perese failed a late fitness test. Capping him at this point would be tactical but I am hopeful his form is returning. He's both physical enough to play the 12 role that Strong Bosher wants but also has those big miss passes in him that put the wingers into space. He's already set up a couple of tries with those this season and it's tougher for the opposition to see that coming when it's not the 10 dropping out the line to make time to throw it.
Yeah, I really love the balance to his game. Those big, flat passes are glorious when they come off.
I'm probably repeating myself but just wish Borthwick would take a punt on developing someone longer term at 12. Maybe it's a niggling injury as you say, but even if he's not in the most consistent form at the moment you'd think England want to have a closer look at how Kelly (if not Atkinson) could fit in. Maybe they have some grand plan for Ojomoh but I just don't really get that in terms of either playing style or recent form/fitness.
Maybe Dingwall will show another level than we've seen so far for England. I'm intrigued by the idea he was due to start alongside Lawrence for the first team.
Two other names to chuck into the mix at 12 are Wimbush and Hartley. As is often the case with England we have a depth of good prospects / good prem players but none who necessarily demand international selection. Of the options mooted, I think Wimbush has the highest ceiling but as mentioned on another thread I believe we are holding the 12 spot for Van Rensburg.
FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:05 pm
Kelly was sensational in the title winning season. Strong argument for form 12 of the season and it was noticeable that Tigers attack dropped off after he got injured. He's never found the same consistent form since. Last season he was finally fit for a good run but McKellar's system just didn't suit him at all. Being stuck covering Kata flying out the line often left him hopelessly isolated in defence and knocked his confidence.
This season he's look much better but was an odd omission from the squad for the Sarries game which makes me think he's had some sort of niggling injury. The week before he was meant to be on the bench before being promoted after Perese failed a late fitness test. Capping him at this point would be tactical but I am hopeful his form is returning. He's both physical enough to play the 12 role that Strong Bosher wants but also has those big miss passes in him that put the wingers into space. He's already set up a couple of tries with those this season and it's tougher for the opposition to see that coming when it's not the 10 dropping out the line to make time to throw it.
Maybe Dingwall will show another level than we've seen so far for England. I'm intrigued by the idea he was due to start alongside Lawrence for the first team.
...in his two games to date, in a misfiring team? Take your point though.
FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:05 pm
Kelly was sensational in the title winning season. Strong argument for form 12 of the season and it was noticeable that Tigers attack dropped off after he got injured. He's never found the same consistent form since. Last season he was finally fit for a good run but McKellar's system just didn't suit him at all. Being stuck covering Kata flying out the line often left him hopelessly isolated in defence and knocked his confidence.
This season he's look much better but was an odd omission from the squad for the Sarries game which makes me think he's had some sort of niggling injury. The week before he was meant to be on the bench before being promoted after Perese failed a late fitness test. Capping him at this point would be tactical but I am hopeful his form is returning. He's both physical enough to play the 12 role that Strong Bosher wants but also has those big miss passes in him that put the wingers into space. He's already set up a couple of tries with those this season and it's tougher for the opposition to see that coming when it's not the 10 dropping out the line to make time to throw it.
Maybe Dingwall will show another level than we've seen so far for England. I'm intrigued by the idea he was due to start alongside Lawrence for the first team.
Maybe Dingwall will show another level than we've seen so far for England. I'm intrigued by the idea he was due to start alongside Lawrence for the first team.
FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 12:05 pm
Kelly was sensational in the title winning season. Strong argument for form 12 of the season and it was noticeable that Tigers attack dropped off after he got injured. He's never found the same consistent form since. Last season he was finally fit for a good run but McKellar's system just didn't suit him at all. Being stuck covering Kata flying out the line often left him hopelessly isolated in defence and knocked his confidence.
This season he's look much better but was an odd omission from the squad for the Sarries game which makes me think he's had some sort of niggling injury. The week before he was meant to be on the bench before being promoted after Perese failed a late fitness test. Capping him at this point would be tactical but I am hopeful his form is returning. He's both physical enough to play the 12 role that Strong Bosher wants but also has those big miss passes in him that put the wingers into space. He's already set up a couple of tries with those this season and it's tougher for the opposition to see that coming when it's not the 10 dropping out the line to make time to throw it.
Maybe Dingwall will show another level than we've seen so far for England. I'm intrigued by the idea he was due to start alongside Lawrence for the first team.
...in his two games to date, in a misfiring team? Take your point though.
Unfortunately what he showed in those two games was a serious lack in physicality which has done little to help his cause to be reselected. Unless you've got insider knowledge I thought any chance of him starting for England unlikely Vs NZ. Always felt it more likely Slade would be given every opportunity to come back into the side (for better or worse).
Maybe Dingwall will show another level than we've seen so far for England. I'm intrigued by the idea he was due to start alongside Lawrence for the first team.
...in his two games to date, in a misfiring team? Take your point though.
Unless you've got insider knowledge
I may do
The only physical deficiency I spotted was a missed tackle at the end v Italy....though he didn't make much of a carrying dent in either game. But I am biased as a family friend; I'd like his brain and skill in midfield, and his ability to do most centre jobs well. But aware no means a perfect solution in fairness- imo better than other options.
Oh, no more than I thought we had seen him in an England shirt for more than just 2 games. I suppose it would only fair if he got another run out before we moved on.
Oh, no more than I thought we had seen him in an England shirt for more than just 2 games. I suppose it would only fair if he got another run out before we moved on.
For me you want a rounded skill set at 12 and that pins towards The Duke and Atkinson, and Hartley albeit slightly different. But ultimately they have to be in the environment and time to shine. At the moment it feels square pegs in round holes, but then I don’t know what our actual attacking plan is. Quick ball is ace, but only with the right structure / ethos behind it.
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:52 pm
For me you want a rounded skill set at 12 and that pins towards The Duke and Atkinson, and Hartley albeit slightly different. But ultimately they have to be in the environment and time to shine. At the moment it feels square pegs in round holes, but then I don’t know what our actual attacking plan is. Quick ball is ace, but only with the right structure / ethos behind it.
The Duke? who be that? Bobby Windsor is the only one I know.
Why not Dingwall- his all round skill set is probably as good as anyone at 12.
Last edited by Banquo on Thu Nov 07, 2024 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:52 pm
For me you want a rounded skill set at 12 and that pins towards The Duke and Atkinson, and Hartley albeit slightly different. But ultimately they have to be in the environment and time to shine. At the moment it feels square pegs in round holes, but then I don’t know what our actual attacking plan is. Quick ball is ace, but only with the right structure / ethos behind it.
The Duke? who be that? Bobby Windsor is the only one I know.
Why not Dingwall- his all round skill set is probably as good as anyone at 12.
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 4:52 pm
For me you want a rounded skill set at 12 and that pins towards The Duke and Atkinson, and Hartley albeit slightly different. But ultimately they have to be in the environment and time to shine. At the moment it feels square pegs in round holes, but then I don’t know what our actual attacking plan is. Quick ball is ace, but only with the right structure / ethos behind it.
The Duke? who be that? Bobby Windsor is the only one I know.
Why not Dingwall- his all round skill set is probably as good as anyone at 12.
...in his two games to date, in a misfiring team? Take your point though.
Unless you've got insider knowledge
I may do
The only physical deficiency I spotted was a missed tackle at the end v Italy....though he didn't make much of a carrying dent in either game. But I am biased as a family friend; I'd like his brain and skill in midfield, and his ability to do most centre jobs well. But aware no means a perfect solution in fairness- imo better than other options.
I just remember him making passive tackles or falling off tackles. I'd give him a bye on the ball carrying considering the state of the attack at the time. Slade wasn't much better iirc.
I may do
The only physical deficiency I spotted was a missed tackle at the end v Italy....though he didn't make much of a carrying dent in either game. But I am biased as a family friend; I'd like his brain and skill in midfield, and his ability to do most centre jobs well. But aware no means a perfect solution in fairness- imo better than other options.
I just remember him making passive tackles or falling off tackles. I'd give him a bye on the ball carrying considering the state of the attack at the time. Slade wasn't much better iirc.
One fall off. Dominant tackles, good to have it’s true
Absolutely can't blame him for taking that cash; fair play to the lad.
