The Great Big England A Thread

[Banquo]

FFS!!! What do they want from a 12

V Quins (one example): made 18 carries for 69 metres, and also made 19 tackles to boot, including three dominant tackles.

Meanwhile his namesake is tearing up trees in the Premiership piss pot Cup

It is honestly bizarre!

Those stats also don't show the nice little touches on the ball he has to create space for others. For an inside centre he touches the ball a lot. For me he's a bit like Ant Allen, not very flashy but makes the rest of the backline look great. The type of player the flyhalf will have on the top of his Christmas Card list every year.

Ant Allen was a top player, love that sort of centre. Top bloke too.

[Banquo]

It is honestly bizarre!

Those stats also don't show the nice little touches on the ball he has to create space for others. For an inside centre he touches the ball a lot. For me he's a bit like Ant Allen, not very flashy but makes the rest of the backline look great. The type of player the flyhalf will have on the top of his Christmas Card list every year.

Very much this. Its the subtle and beautifully timed passes that i really enjoy. He's not a truck it up kind of player. His game is about moving the ball and playing others into gaps. His defence is absolutely sound too.

Dingwall's game also summed up

[Which Tyler]

Does anyone know if EngA are subject to the same "pick from home" limitations as the senior squad?

Could it be used to make (for example) Junior Kpoku feel loved, valued, and part of the plan (obviously, not whilst banned, but as a principle)?

[Oakboy]

Those stats also don't show the nice little touches on the ball he has to create space for others. For an inside centre he touches the ball a lot. For me he's a bit like Ant Allen, not very flashy but makes the rest of the backline look great. The type of player the flyhalf will have on the top of his Christmas Card list every year.

Very much this. Its the subtle and beautifully timed passes that i really enjoy. He's not a truck it up kind of player. His game is about moving the ball and playing others into gaps. His defence is absolutely sound too.

Dingwall's game also summed up

Do you think both were/are seen as unable to adapt, then? If that is their 'only game', in both cases, maybe that does not suit the international stage according to the opinions that count. It seems odd to me but it's hard to understand the reluctance to select otherwise.

[FKAS]

Those stats also don't show the nice little touches on the ball he has to create space for others. For an inside centre he touches the ball a lot. For me he's a bit like Ant Allen, not very flashy but makes the rest of the backline look great. The type of player the flyhalf will have on the top of his Christmas Card list every year.

Very much this. Its the subtle and beautifully timed passes that i really enjoy. He's not a truck it up kind of player. His game is about moving the ball and playing others into gaps. His defence is absolutely sound too.

Dingwall's game also summed up

He tends to be more noticeable in games than Seb, not sure why. He does have great hands and vision as well, classy centre. I'd like to see him add a couple of kilos and up his physicality mind.

[Banquo]

Very much this. Its the subtle and beautifully timed passes that i really enjoy. He's not a truck it up kind of player. His game is about moving the ball and playing others into gaps. His defence is absolutely sound too.

Dingwall's game also summed up

Do you think both were/are seen as unable to adapt, then? If that is their 'only game', in both cases, maybe that does not suit the international stage according to the opinions that count. It seems odd to me but it's hard to understand the reluctance to select otherwise.

Their game is based on creating opportunities for others, they have good rounded skill sets so should fit into any team- they enable others to play. I'm afraid head coaches who used to be forwards often don't get this- they look for gainline breakers, and of course players like Allen, Dingwall, Atkinson can get over the tackle line through subtlety..but...

[Banquo]

Very much this. Its the subtle and beautifully timed passes that i really enjoy. He's not a truck it up kind of player. His game is about moving the ball and playing others into gaps. His defence is absolutely sound too.

Dingwall's game also summed up

He tends to be more noticeable in games than Seb, not sure why. He does have great hands and vision as well, classy centre. I'd like to see him add a couple of kilos and up his physicality mind.

he put on a couple of kilos last summer. But we've had this conversation before; imo you could pair him with Lawrence in that way its done with Slade- Slade defends at 13 mostly, where Dingwall is good, esp on the drift and communication (clearly would work better with Freeman, who looked like no-one was talking to him in defence early v FRance), and mix and match in attack, where Dingwall's subtlety at 12 is excellent.

[p/d]

Very much this. Its the subtle and beautifully timed passes that i really enjoy. He's not a truck it up kind of player. His game is about moving the ball and playing others into gaps. His defence is absolutely sound too.

Dingwall's game also summed up

Do you think both were/are seen as unable to adapt, then? If that is their 'only game', in both cases, maybe that does not suit the international stage according to the opinions that count. It seems odd to me but it's hard to understand the reluctance to select otherwise.

As in they won’t kick the leather off the odd shaped ball?


It is funny how we are still debating 12 after shoe horning a 10 followed by two 13’s into the shirt.

Perhaps it is as simple as being a footballer first rugby player second. Not to be too down on Slade but he might get into the current Welsh side but would be hard pushed to displace many current 12’s playing in the Prem.

Perhaps players like Abbott, Allen, Atkinson and Banquo Dingers simply have a ceiling of being exceptional at club level.

[Banquo]

Dingwall's game also summed up

Do you think both were/are seen as unable to adapt, then? If that is their 'only game', in both cases, maybe that does not suit the international stage according to the opinions that count. It seems odd to me but it's hard to understand the reluctance to select otherwise.

As in they won’t kick the leather off the odd shaped ball?


It is funny how we are still debating 12 after shoe horning a 10 followed by two 13’s into the shirt.

Perhaps it is as simple as being a footballer first rugby player second. Not to be too down on Slade but he might get into the current Welsh side but would be hard pushed to displace many current 12’s playing in the Prem.

Perhaps players like Abbott, Allen, Atkinson and Banquo Dingers simply have a ceiling of being exceptional at club level.

could be, but you don't really know until you try, ditto Fraser Waters (at least there were obviously better options than Abbott and him though; now not so much). Plus Abbott might have made it, but for a leg break.

Agreed on shoehorning- lets stick a 10 at 15 for a laugh, as you said someone who plays 13 at 12 (pick either )...Curry/Earl at 8 etc

[Oakboy]

Presumably, Dingwall, Hill and Roebuck are not awkward characters because they keep getting into the squad. It must be hard for them knowing they are ranked somewhere between 23 and 36 or whatever.

[Puja]

It is honestly bizarre!

Those stats also don't show the nice little touches on the ball he has to create space for others. For an inside centre he touches the ball a lot. For me he's a bit like Ant Allen, not very flashy but makes the rest of the backline look great. The type of player the flyhalf will have on the top of his Christmas Card list every year.

Very much this. Its the subtle and beautifully timed passes that i really enjoy. He's not a truck it up kind of player. His game is about moving the ball and playing others into gaps. His defence is absolutely sound too.

I can maybe understand that there might be something keeping him out of the main squad, but I am confused as to what it could be that sees him so far down the pecking order that he's not even in an A squad.

Puja

[p/d]

Do you think both were/are seen as unable to adapt, then? If that is their 'only game', in both cases, maybe that does not suit the international stage according to the opinions that count. It seems odd to me but it's hard to understand the reluctance to select otherwise.

As in they won’t kick the leather off the odd shaped ball?


It is funny how we are still debating 12 after shoe horning a 10 followed by two 13’s into the shirt.

Perhaps it is as simple as being a footballer first rugby player second. Not to be too down on Slade but he might get into the current Welsh side but would be hard pushed to displace many current 12’s playing in the Prem.

Perhaps players like Abbott, Allen, Atkinson and Banquo Dingers simply have a ceiling of being exceptional at club level.

could be, but you don't really know until you try, ditto Fraser Waters (at least there were obviously better options than Abbott and him though; now not so much). Plus Abbott might have made it, but for a leg break.

Agreed on shoehorning- lets stick a 10 at 15 for a laugh, as you said someone who plays 13 at 12 (pick either )...Curry/Earl at 8 etc

Still get misty eyed over that Wasps midfield.

[Banquo]

As in they won’t kick the leather off the odd shaped ball?


It is funny how we are still debating 12 after shoe horning a 10 followed by two 13’s into the shirt.

Perhaps it is as simple as being a footballer first rugby player second. Not to be too down on Slade but he might get into the current Welsh side but would be hard pushed to displace many current 12’s playing in the Prem.

Perhaps players like Abbott, Allen, Atkinson and Banquo Dingers simply have a ceiling of being exceptional at club level.

could be, but you don't really know until you try, ditto Fraser Waters (at least there were obviously better options than Abbott and him though; now not so much). Plus Abbott might have made it, but for a leg break.

Agreed on shoehorning- lets stick a 10 at 15 for a laugh, as you said someone who plays 13 at 12 (pick either )...Curry/Earl at 8 etc

Still get misty eyed over that Wasps midfield.

Alex King too?

[p/d]

could be, but you don't really know until you try, ditto Fraser Waters (at least there were obviously better options than Abbott and him though; now not so much). Plus Abbott might have made it, but for a leg break.

Agreed on shoehorning- lets stick a 10 at 15 for a laugh, as you said someone who plays 13 at 12 (pick either )...Curry/Earl at 8 etc

Still get misty eyed over that Wasps midfield.

Alex King too?

At the time

[Which Tyler]

Bailey came off the pitch after half an hour today.

Sounds like hamstring or knee injury - hopefully just precautionary

[Which Tyler]

[Puja]

I will openly claim myself as a bit of a rugby nerd. I am fairly confident that I know more about things than the average spod and will generally recognise any player name who might even slightly be in contention for an international squad.

That squad announcement has genuinely made me worry that I might've had a deterioration in my memory condition and lost a bunch of capacity, given the number of names that I had no clue who they were. Thankfully, a frantic google revealed that it's not a problem with me - Jack Bennett, Mackenzie Graham, Billy Pascoe, Rafe Witheat have a grand total of 6 starts in the Prem Cup between them, with Tom Lockett being the experienced head with 19 games for Northampton in Prem and Europe.

Can anyone give me a clue what those players are doing there or was it solely just to make me concerned I'd had a stroke?

Puja

[fivepointer]

Squad filler. Connections with Bath and Saints so coaches could call in favours.

There are obviously far more deserving and better players but i imagine its just to make the numbers up for training purposes.

[Puja]

Squad filler. Connections with Bath and Saints so coaches could call in favours.

There are obviously far more deserving and better players but i imagine its just to make the numbers up for training purposes.

That makes sense. Probably gives a guide to the players dropping down from the main squad as well, if those guys are placeholders for people joining training later. One lock, one lock/back-row, a back-row, a centre, and a winger - Coles, Dombrandt, Pollock, Beard, Roebuck?

I see Shillcock's been called up for Bailey. We have incredible riches at the top at 10 with Smith/Smith/Ford, but behind them is a deep dark void, probably covered by Slade/Furbank out of position. If all three of our front-line were injured at the same time, I would genuinely support a call-up for Faz under exceptional circumstances, and you all know by now my opinion of that rule.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Pepper's inclusion is "about bloody time"

Graham and Bennett are... presumably there to hold tackle bags. TBH I wouldn't be too surprised if neither get promoted out of the academy, I certainly don't see anything to suggest future international quality.
Possible that the coaches think they know who Ireland will pick, so chose tackle bags holders who they think can do a good impression of player X.

The lack of Seb Atkinson still makes me sad

[p/d]

Simmonds would be my first call

[Captainhaircut]

Pepper's inclusion is "about bloody time"

Graham and Bennett are... presumably there to hold tackle bags. TBH I wouldn't be too surprised if neither get promoted out of the academy, I certainly don't see anything to suggest future international quality.
Possible that the coaches think they know who Ireland will pick, so chose tackle bags holders who they think can do a good impression of player X.

The lack of Seb Atkinson still makes me sad

Pepper was in the 6N squad last year for the France game and played the A game vs Portugal. Think the only thing holding him back currently is injuries- presume he’s only just back fit from the hammy he did against Saints and that’s why he’s in the squad this week but wasn’t last.

[FKAS]

Squad filler. Connections with Bath and Saints so coaches could call in favours.

There are obviously far more deserving and better players but i imagine its just to make the numbers up for training purposes.

That makes sense. Probably gives a guide to the players dropping down from the main squad as well, if those guys are placeholders for people joining training later. One lock, one lock/back-row, a back-row, a centre, and a winger - Coles, Dombrandt, Pollock, Beard, Roebuck?

I see Shillcock's been called up for Bailey. We have incredible riches at the top at 10 with Smith/Smith/Ford, but behind them is a deep dark void, probably covered by Slade/Furbank out of position. If all three of our front-line were injured at the same time, I would genuinely support a call-up for Faz under exceptional circumstances, and you all know by now my opinion of that rule.

Puja

Might be interesting if Joey Carberry does come to the Prem next season and changes allegiance. Sale seem intent on flogging Ford, who lets face it isn't the best at resting anyway. Would suddenly provide a short term fourth choice option.

[Puja]

Squad filler. Connections with Bath and Saints so coaches could call in favours.

There are obviously far more deserving and better players but i imagine its just to make the numbers up for training purposes.

That makes sense. Probably gives a guide to the players dropping down from the main squad as well, if those guys are placeholders for people joining training later. One lock, one lock/back-row, a back-row, a centre, and a winger - Coles, Dombrandt, Pollock, Beard, Roebuck?

I see Shillcock's been called up for Bailey. We have incredible riches at the top at 10 with Smith/Smith/Ford, but behind them is a deep dark void, probably covered by Slade/Furbank out of position. If all three of our front-line were injured at the same time, I would genuinely support a call-up for Faz under exceptional circumstances, and you all know by now my opinion of that rule.

Puja

Might be interesting if Joey Carberry does come to the Prem next season and changes allegiance. Sale seem intent on flogging Ford, who lets face it isn't the best at resting anyway. Would suddenly provide a short term fourth choice option.

Hah - hadn't heard about that as an option. Would be fun, but not exactly a long-term option.

Puja

[FKAS]

That makes sense. Probably gives a guide to the players dropping down from the main squad as well, if those guys are placeholders for people joining training later. One lock, one lock/back-row, a back-row, a centre, and a winger - Coles, Dombrandt, Pollock, Beard, Roebuck?

I see Shillcock's been called up for Bailey. We have incredible riches at the top at 10 with Smith/Smith/Ford, but behind them is a deep dark void, probably covered by Slade/Furbank out of position. If all three of our front-line were injured at the same time, I would genuinely support a call-up for Faz under exceptional circumstances, and you all know by now my opinion of that rule.

Puja

Might be interesting if Joey Carberry does come to the Prem next season and changes allegiance. Sale seem intent on flogging Ford, who lets face it isn't the best at resting anyway. Would suddenly provide a short term fourth choice option.

Hah - hadn't heard about that as an option. Would be fun, but not exactly a long-term option.

Puja

He's reviewing his options whilst waiting to hear from Bordeaux about a renewal. It's three years from his last cap in November and he's publicly stated he's become EQ.

Bristol and Tigers might be interested.

Definitely a short term option for England but if it buys time for someone else to come through then fine. Would only be fourth choice in any case.