Team for Wales

[Danno]

According to ESPNScrum - not sure how accurate they are - but apparently Fin Smith passed 8 times and made 9 tackles. That may be true but it doesn't seem right. Wales also had 56% territory and possession was 50/50. If any of that is correct - it highlights how clinical we were this game. Long may that continue.

That does seem low, but we played off Mitchell a lot

Hard to find good stats these days

[FKAS]

According to ESPNScrum - not sure how accurate they are - but apparently Fin Smith passed 8 times and made 9 tackles. That may be true but it doesn't seem right. Wales also had 56% territory and possession was 50/50. If any of that is correct - it highlights how clinical we were this game. Long may that continue.

That does seem low, but we played off Mitchell a lot

Hard to find good stats these days

Also takes a bit for the stats to be checked and updated so sometimes they can change.

[Puja]

Am I the only one who remembers England playing a backrower at centre in 2015?

Tbf, they moved him to 10 for the World Cup.

Beautiful.

Puja

[Danno]

According to ESPNScrum - not sure how accurate they are - but apparently Fin Smith passed 8 times and made 9 tackles. That may be true but it doesn't seem right. Wales also had 56% territory and possession was 50/50. If any of that is correct - it highlights how clinical we were this game. Long may that continue.

That does seem low, but we played off Mitchell a lot

Hard to find good stats these days

Also takes a bit for the stats to be checked and updated so sometimes they can change.

Imagine if that was your job

[Scrumhead]

France vs. Scotland result as expected. TBH, I’m pretty happy with how things panned out. Winning the title would have been a very false representation of where we are at.

Second is good progress and a more ruthless performance today is a good confidence builder.

The summer tour will be interesting.

[Danno]

France vs. Scotland result as expected. TBH, I’m pretty happy with how things panned out. Winning the title would have been a very false representation of where we are at.

Second is good progress and a more ruthless performance today is a good confidence builder.

The summer tour will be interesting.

Agreed. And France absolutely deserved it.

[Danno]

Ford has been terrific as was Fin

Fin's pass to Roebuck for the second try was tremendous (among other highlights)

[Mikey Brown]

I didn’t quite get the fuss about that one. A harder/flatter pass would have been nice but an unbelievable finish made it work.

Ford put in some beautiful passes.

[Danno]

I liked it

Ford was Ford as always, he's always going to find the right time, place and space

[Spiffy]

I didn’t quite get the fuss about that one. A harder/flatter pass would have been nice but an unbelievable finish made it work.

Ford put in some beautiful passes.

George is still a top quality player with real rugby intelligence and vision. Amazing he's never had a Lions tour but it's still not too late. We should see three Lions 10s from the following 4 - F.Smith, M.Smith, G.Ford, F. Russell. But the coach is A. Farrell, so I hope we do not see an unrealistic Irish bias. Several of the Irish team have really unselected themselves in this 6N tournament.

[FKAS]

I didn’t quite get the fuss about that one. A harder/flatter pass would have been nice but an unbelievable finish made it work.

Ford put in some beautiful passes.

George is still a top quality player with real rugby intelligence and vision. Amazing he's never had a Lions tour but it's still not too late. We should see three Lions 10s from the following 4 - F.Smith, M.Smith, G.Ford, F. Russell. But the coach is A. Farrell, so I hope we do not see an unrealistic Irish bias. Several of the Irish team have really unselected themselves in this 6N tournament.

Ford in camp as almost a player coach would be a sound idea. Particularly if something happens to Russell and we're left taking a couple of young flyhalfs.

Ford either had injuries at unfortunate times or suffered from Garland's insistence on picking more physical 10s.

[fivepointer]

A few random thoughts....

That was a tremendous shift from CCS. Called into action early he really justified the faith shown in him.
On the same theme, Earl showed his value to the side by having a stint in the centre. Neither change really affected us greatly.
Genge and Stuart further underlined their quality but a word for the replacements as both Baxter and Heyes (delighted he scored a try) have shown real development.
Itoje is easily the best lock in Britain.
Our back row resources are considerable. Goodness knows how we can fit them all in but it looks like Pollock is going to be very hard to leave out.
Ford showed in his cameo that he is still a player to be reckoned with.
The Freeman at 13 is surely going to be more of a regular thing.
We're going to have 10+ Lions so the trip to Argentina will be quite a test of our depth.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Was at the game and it was a fabulous experience! Most pleased with how we moved the point of contact in the forwards rather than running into brick walls.

Wales utter butchery early in the second half killed any hopes of a fight back. Their two tries were decently crafted but ultimately soft. Especially the second.

The forwards were exceptional!

[Oakboy]

A few random thoughts....

That was a tremendous shift from CCS. Called into action early he really justified the faith shown in him.
On the same theme, Earl showed his value to the side by having a stint in the centre. Neither change really affected us greatly.
Genge and Stuart further underlined their quality but a word for the replacements as both Baxter and Heyes (delighted he scored a try) have shown real development.
Itoje is easily the best lock in Britain.
Our back row resources are considerable. Goodness knows how we can fit them all in but it looks like Pollock is going to be very hard to leave out.
Ford showed in his cameo that he is still a player to be reckoned with.
The Freeman at 13 is surely going to be more of a regular thing.
We're going to have 10+ Lions so the trip to Argentina will be quite a test of our depth.

Good summation as usual. I hope that both Currys and Earl get the red shirt call because I so want to see a back row of CCS, Pollock and Willis in white.

It was interesting to note that SB pursued his 'simple' replacement policy with Pollock packing down at 8. Maybe, SB is not quite so dull as shrewd? He then kept Pollock there with Willis taking over on the flank - again one-for-one.

I thought Roebuck showed himself to be a far superior all-round player than Sleightholme. I can see him keeping a starting place when IFW returns on the other wing.

Do you think Marcus will have to be satisfied with a bench place when Furbank returns? It's looking like Mitchell, Fin, IFW, Dingwall, Freeman, Roebuck, Furbank could be our 1st choice back line. 6 months ago I would not have dreamt that Dingwall could cling on to the 12 shirt but now his solid competence could develop into what we need. I remain convinced that Freeman has more to offer at 13 than Lawrence. He was immediately a constant try-scoring threat and he made fewer mistakes. Given half a dozen starts there, Freeman will be special, IMO.

[Oakboy]

Was at the game and it was a fabulous experience! Most pleased with how we moved the point of contact in the forwards rather than running into brick walls.

Wales utter butchery early in the second half killed any hopes of a fight back. Their two tries were decently crafted but ultimately soft. Especially the second.

The forwards were exceptional!

From a stadium seat, how did you assess Genge in the loose? On TV it's sometimes hard to get context. It started to look to me like his carrying (though not of huge yardage) was crucial in its timing and effect.

[Stom]

I didn’t quite get the fuss about that one. A harder/flatter pass would have been nice but an unbelievable finish made it work.

Ford put in some beautiful passes.

I agree. It was nice, it was good that he spotted it, and he looked a lot more comfortable than last time out. But it was the finish I was more impressed with.

On a whole, I thought there were a lot of good things without there being many "amazing" things to get really worked up against. Our settled defense is great, but we do tend to miss routine tackles, still, and while Marcus did a lot of things right - he took all the high balls, didn't he? - you still feel like he's maybe not in the perfect position, and he's still second guessing himself in defense. Whether that comes to him with more time at 15, whether he's given more time at 15, and whether he would be the best option there going forward...all remain to be seen.

I found it hard to judge CCS and Earl out of position due to the general play of Wales, which was poor. No big mistakes, no real go forward from Earl in the backs (though he was absolutely blowing at the end), though CCS got through a hell of a lot of carrying.

Interesting that Pollock came on at 8, and then Willis packed down at BSF...

[fivepointer]

A few random thoughts....

That was a tremendous shift from CCS. Called into action early he really justified the faith shown in him.
On the same theme, Earl showed his value to the side by having a stint in the centre. Neither change really affected us greatly.
Genge and Stuart further underlined their quality but a word for the replacements as both Baxter and Heyes (delighted he scored a try) have shown real development.
Itoje is easily the best lock in Britain.
Our back row resources are considerable. Goodness knows how we can fit them all in but it looks like Pollock is going to be very hard to leave out.
Ford showed in his cameo that he is still a player to be reckoned with.
The Freeman at 13 is surely going to be more of a regular thing.
We're going to have 10+ Lions so the trip to Argentina will be quite a test of our depth.

Good summation as usual. I hope that both Currys and Earl get the red shirt call because I so want to see a back row of CCS, Pollock and Willis in white.

It was interesting to note that SB pursued his 'simple' replacement policy with Pollock packing down at 8. Maybe, SB is not quite so dull as shrewd? He then kept Pollock there with Willis taking over on the flank - again one-for-one.

I thought Roebuck showed himself to be a far superior all-round player than Sleightholme. I can see him keeping a starting place when IFW returns on the other wing.

Do you think Marcus will have to be satisfied with a bench place when Furbank returns? It's looking like Mitchell, Fin, IFW, Dingwall, Freeman, Roebuck, Furbank could be our 1st choice back line. 6 months ago I would not have dreamt that Dingwall could cling on to the 12 shirt but now his solid competence could develop into what we need. I remain convinced that Freeman has more to offer at 13 than Lawrence. He was immediately a constant try-scoring threat and he made fewer mistakes. Given half a dozen starts there, Freeman will be special, IMO.

Think Fin is going to be our 10 for the foreseeable. Not sure what the plan is for Marcus. Agree about Roebuck. He looked very good.

[Mikey Brown]

Well I think we got away with all of Borthwick’s questionable selections yesterday. CCS, Pollock, Ben Curry, Earl at 12, Freeman at 13, Smith at 15 all looked decent enough to me. Wales were obviously atrocious but that was a great performance all round.

There would be something quite poetic about Ford getting his 100th international cap in his first Lions test. Any of our backrows could be going, but the competition at flanker is insane. I’m almost disappointed Freeman will be going because I want to see him continue at 13.

Still not sure if we’re massively overrating Furbank since he managed a few games without massive errors, but it will be interesting to see what happens with Marcus when he’s available.

Shame for Murley and Sleightholme but Roebuck grabbed his chance in a far, far more emphatic way. I look forward to seeing him against bigger and better opposition.

LCD’s tackle was a fantastic moment. A good day for Sale supporters in particular.

[Captainhaircut]

Well I think we got away with all of Borthwick’s questionable selections yesterday. CCS, Pollock, Ben Curry, Earl at 12, Freeman at 13, Smith at 15 all looked decent enough to me. Wales were obviously atrocious but that was a great performance all round.

There would be something quite poetic about Ford getting his 100th international cap in his first Lions test. Any of our backrows could be going, but the competition at flanker is insane. I’m almost disappointed Freeman will be going because I want to see him continue at 13.

Still not sure if we’re massively overrating Furbank since he managed a few games without massive errors, but it will be interesting to see what happens with Marcus when he’s available.

Shame for Murley and Sleightholme but Roebuck grabbed his chance in a far, far more emphatic way. I look forward to seeing him against bigger and better opposition.

LCD’s tackle was a fantastic moment. A good day for Sale supporters in particular.

The narrative would be completely different if Rassie went with CCS at lock, Earl covering centre, Ford on bench, Curry/Curry/Earl back row and Freeman at 13 and then got the results from all of those decisions that Borthwick did.

It wouldn’t be “got away with it”, it would be that he was a total genius. Granted he has two world cups but Borthwick’s dour nature and lack of self promotion definitely works against him.

Given the ludicrous back row options, strength on the right wing (and lack of depth at lock and centre), moves for CCS, Freeman and Earl make absolute sense.

For me, Borthwick is doing a great job. We were 20 minutes of O’Keefe induced chaos away from possibly doing a slam.

[fivepointer]

Well I think we got away with all of Borthwick’s questionable selections yesterday. CCS, Pollock, Ben Curry, Earl at 12, Freeman at 13, Smith at 15 all looked decent enough to me. Wales were obviously atrocious but that was a great performance all round.

There would be something quite poetic about Ford getting his 100th international cap in his first Lions test. Any of our backrows could be going, but the competition at flanker is insane. I’m almost disappointed Freeman will be going because I want to see him continue at 13.

Still not sure if we’re massively overrating Furbank since he managed a few games without massive errors, but it will be interesting to see what happens with Marcus when he’s available.

Shame for Murley and Sleightholme but Roebuck grabbed his chance in a far, far more emphatic way. I look forward to seeing him against bigger and better opposition.

LCD’s tackle was a fantastic moment. A good day for Sale supporters in particular.

The narrative would be completely different if Rassie went with CCS at lock, Earl covering centre, Ford on bench, Curry/Curry/Earl back row and Freeman at 13 and then got the results from all of those decisions that Borthwick did.

It wouldn’t be “got away with it”, it would be that he was a total genius. Granted he has two world cups but Borthwick’s dour nature and lack of self promotion definitely works against him.

Given the ludicrous back row options, strength on the right wing (and lack of depth at lock and centre), moves for CCS, Freeman and Earl make absolute sense.

For me, Borthwick is doing a great job. We were 20 minutes of O’Keefe induced chaos away from possibly doing a slam.

yes, i think Borthwick is due some praise. I wasnt sure about this 23 but it couldnt have worked out better. We're playing at a significantly higher level than at the start of the season and the coaches deserve credit for where we are now.
When you look at who didnt get to play, or play a limited role in this 6N's we do have a strong, young squad developing.

[Scrumhead]

Well I think we got away with all of Borthwick’s questionable selections yesterday. CCS, Pollock, Ben Curry, Earl at 12, Freeman at 13, Smith at 15 all looked decent enough to me. Wales were obviously atrocious but that was a great performance all round.

There would be something quite poetic about Ford getting his 100th international cap in his first Lions test. Any of our backrows could be going, but the competition at flanker is insane. I’m almost disappointed Freeman will be going because I want to see him continue at 13.

Still not sure if we’re massively overrating Furbank since he managed a few games without massive errors, but it will be interesting to see what happens with Marcus when he’s available.

Shame for Murley and Sleightholme but Roebuck grabbed his chance in a far, far more emphatic way. I look forward to seeing him against bigger and better opposition.

LCD’s tackle was a fantastic moment. A good day for Sale supporters in particular.

Agree on Roebuck. Moreover, given Borthwick’s gameplan, he simply has the best skillset for the role. The frustrating thing is that this was always glaringly obvious … As you say, it’s quite different looking good against a crap Wales side and Japan than it is vs. better defences. That’s not a slight on Roebuck, I think he’d still be good. It’s just not an apples for apples comparison.

Having said that, I don’t think it’s curtains for Murley or Sleightholme. A good tour in Argentina on a hard track might help them to demonstrate what they can offer.

[Scrumhead]

Well I think we got away with all of Borthwick’s questionable selections yesterday. CCS, Pollock, Ben Curry, Earl at 12, Freeman at 13, Smith at 15 all looked decent enough to me. Wales were obviously atrocious but that was a great performance all round.

There would be something quite poetic about Ford getting his 100th international cap in his first Lions test. Any of our backrows could be going, but the competition at flanker is insane. I’m almost disappointed Freeman will be going because I want to see him continue at 13.

Still not sure if we’re massively overrating Furbank since he managed a few games without massive errors, but it will be interesting to see what happens with Marcus when he’s available.

Shame for Murley and Sleightholme but Roebuck grabbed his chance in a far, far more emphatic way. I look forward to seeing him against bigger and better opposition.

LCD’s tackle was a fantastic moment. A good day for Sale supporters in particular.

The narrative would be completely different if Rassie went with CCS at lock, Earl covering centre, Ford on bench, Curry/Curry/Earl back row and Freeman at 13 and then got the results from all of those decisions that Borthwick did.

It wouldn’t be “got away with it”, it would be that he was a total genius. Granted he has two world cups but Borthwick’s dour nature and lack of self promotion definitely works against him.

Given the ludicrous back row options, strength on the right wing (and lack of depth at lock and centre), moves for CCS, Freeman and Earl make absolute sense.

For me, Borthwick is doing a great job. We were 20 minutes of O’Keefe induced chaos away from possibly doing a slam.

I think you’re probably in the minority there.

Ultimately, you can only play what’s in front of you, but we have to be realistic. Wales were abject and I’m not totally convinced the selection bingo would have paid off against any of the other sides.

A big win shouldn’t mask the fact that we’ve looked confused and unconvincing for 4 out of the 5 games.

I do kind of agree with your ‘if Rassie did it’ piece but I think the jury is still definitely out on Borthwick.

2nd is good progress but winning the tournament would have been a totally false reflection of where we are.

[Oakboy]

I think you’re probably in the minority there.

Ultimately, you can only play what’s in front of you, but we have to be realistic. Wales were abject and I’m not totally convinced the selection bingo would have paid off against any of the other sides.

A big win shouldn’t mask the fact that we’ve looked confused and unconvincing for 4 out of the 5 games.

I do kind of agree with your ‘if Rassie did it’ piece but I think the jury is still definitely out on Borthwick.

2nd is good progress but winning the tournament would have been a totally false reflection of where we are.

Agreed. Borthwick is not a top-line international coach BUT he may develop into one. I still think that his predecessor cocked up more comprehensively than is often admitted. That left Borthwick starting from a lower point than should have been the case. He has found his way into the job a bit and has accepted that some radical change is needed.

Looking at the 6N as a whole, he has assessed the opposition fairly well overall. Win one/lose one against Ireland/France was acceptable. Maybe, he could have stuck it to Scotland more but his defence of a 'win is a win' is understandable historically, we could concede. That left developmental changes for the last two and especially yesterday. The Wales revival against the old enemy and the Cardiff crowd influence were wiped out in no uncertain terms. Looking just at the scoreboard for the tournament, things are much improved. Style and attacking power were presented in the last match.

We have yet to steamroller a good side but that seems possible if improvement is maintained.

[Mellsblue]

England’s constant improvement of performance through the tournament vs England’s constant decline in quality of oppo through the tournament. Correlation or causation?

[p/d]

The narrative would be completely different if Rassie went with CCS at lock, Earl covering centre, Ford on bench, Curry/Curry/Earl back row and Freeman at 13 and then got the results from all of those decisions that Borthwick did.

There is spin and there is this.

And as an aside Rassie would have gone 7:1