Scotland vs England - Sat 4.40pm

[p/d]

This game has been 3 moments.

Arundell first yellow which is just wrong.
Genge shitting the bed.
Ford charge down.

We’ve been fucking dreadful but take away those 3 and we win this game pretty comfortably I think.

This has truly cheered me up!!!

[Stom]

We’ve lacked intensity, we’ve missed tackles, we’ve not competed. SB gets nearly all the blame here.

The rest goes to the pack and Itoje just not being enough of a leader. He should get a rest now, or we should demand Saracens rest him.

Nah 1 to 23 plus the coaching staff get the blame. It's been awful. No one is excused.

It’s not excuses. It’s not throwing the players under the bus when the coach has not set them up for success. He takes the blame.

His selection was wrong. LCD was a liability again.

We consistently suffer these games. When a team just plays with more intensity than us, get some luck, and then we compound issues with massive individual failings, mistakes, poor decisions.

Yes, individual players are making those mistakes. Every member of that pack except probably Chessum and Earl missed poor tackles or made terrible decisions.

So that lies on the coaching team for not preparing the playing team

[Insouciant]

Lol.

Yeah no chance. We've looked toothless and the officials are giving us none of the 50/50s.

They scored 14 points during the yellow card. Genge costs us 7 points, charge down is a 10 point swing.

How exactly is that “no chance”. Even just the charge down changes the game from 24-16 to 31-13.

100%. I don't think we played well but we were largely the better side in the second half. We weren't great, and Scotland upped their game but we just needed more accuracy in the 22. A plan B would be good too. I don't think it's a total fall off..much of the blame goes to Arundell being off for 30 mins. Didn't see the first offence but the second one was just dull.

[p/d]

We were dreadful for 80mins.

Please just accept it and congratulate Scotland for being physically better and more dangerous with ball in hand.

[Beasties]

Sometimes the other team just want it so much more than you.
And that’s even when you look like you want it a bit.
We didn’t want it a bit today.

[Captainhaircut]

Genuinely don’t know why people think that’s a ridiculous statement when in a 11 point game there is one moment that is a flat 10 point swing and we lost Arundell for 20 minutes (first yellow and then the extra 10 minutes for the second yellow) because of what was a flat out wrong call.

That’s even ignoring that the penalty they got for the first yellow card (that should have been a penalty to us) directly led to their first try.

We had more territory, possession, murdered their scrum and conceded less penalties than they did.

We were dreadful. Dreadful.

But they weren’t great and we win that game if not for that that shit yellow decision and a charge down.

[Beasties]

Yeah no chance. We've looked toothless and the officials are giving us none of the 50/50s.

They scored 14 points during the yellow card. Genge costs us 7 points, charge down is a 10 point swing.

How exactly is that “no chance”. Even just the charge down changes the game from 24-16 to 31-13.

100%. I don't think we played well but we were largely the better side in the second half. We weren't great, and Scotland upped their game but we just needed more accuracy in the 22. A plan B would be good too. I don't think it's a total fall off..much of the blame goes to Arundell being off for 30 mins. Didn't see the first offence but the second one was just dull.

First yellow was ridiculous. But those sorts of decisions are instant decisions by refs, who generally make them after a series of pens. They never refer them to the TMO. It was so early in the match it wasn’t a match changer as such, or shouldn’t have been. But we were never up for this, so it did affect things really badly.

So crap decision but we’re clutching at thin air if we’re blaming that particular decision.

No idea what Arundell was thinking for the second yellow. Just dumb as.

[Epaminondas Pules]

As an aside I really feel for Arundell. The yellow for the contact in the air is fair enough, but he was utterly fucked by that first yellow which was a horrific call!

[FKAS]

We’ve lacked intensity, we’ve missed tackles, we’ve not competed. SB gets nearly all the blame here.

The rest goes to the pack and Itoje just not being enough of a leader. He should get a rest now, or we should demand Saracens rest him.

Nah 1 to 23 plus the coaching staff get the blame. It's been awful. No one is excused.

It’s not excuses. It’s not throwing the players under the bus when the coach has not set them up for success. He takes the blame.

His selection was wrong. LCD was a liability again.

We consistently suffer these games. When a team just plays with more intensity than us, get some luck, and then we compound issues with massive individual failings, mistakes, poor decisions.

Yes, individual players are making those mistakes. Every member of that pack except probably Chessum and Earl missed poor tackles or made terrible decisions.

So that lies on the coaching team for not preparing the playing team

I'm not excusing the coaches but the players have got to take a shed load of the blame as well. It was an insipid performance all round.

[Epaminondas Pules]

They scored 14 points during the yellow card. Genge costs us 7 points, charge down is a 10 point swing.

How exactly is that “no chance”. Even just the charge down changes the game from 24-16 to 31-13.

100%. I don't think we played well but we were largely the better side in the second half. We weren't great, and Scotland upped their game but we just needed more accuracy in the 22. A plan B would be good too. I don't think it's a total fall off..much of the blame goes to Arundell being off for 30 mins. Didn't see the first offence but the second one was just dull.

First yellow was ridiculous. But those sorts of decisions are instant decisions by refs, who generally make them after a series of pens. They never refer them to the TMO. It was so early in the match it wasn’t a match changer as such, or shouldn’t have been. But we were never up for this, so it did affect things really badly.

So crap decision but we’re clutching at thin air if we’re blaming that particular decision.

No idea what Arundell was thinking for the second yellow. Just dumb as.

He was looking at the ball.

[fivepointer]

if.....if....if.....

Only gets you so far. Yes, if a couple of things had gone our way things might have turned out differently. They didnt and frankly we didnt do enough to turn things our way when it mattered.

Too many players went missing, or were guilty of skill lapses, taking bad options or a lack of composure. We looked like a team who have never played at Murrayfield, or against a team with their backs against the wall with every incentive to turn us over.

This is a terrible result. No getting away from that. A lot of the good work over the last year has been tarnished and a few reputations badly dented.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I’m hoping that game bring about some change in the lineup (and subs!)

[oldbackrow]

100%. I don't think we played well but we were largely the better side in the second half. We weren't great, and Scotland upped their game but we just needed more accuracy in the 22. A plan B would be good too. I don't think it's a total fall off..much of the blame goes to Arundell being off for 30 mins. Didn't see the first offence but the second one was just dull.

First yellow was ridiculous. But those sorts of decisions are instant decisions by refs, who generally make them after a series of pens. They never refer them to the TMO. It was so early in the match it wasn’t a match changer as such, or shouldn’t have been. But we were never up for this, so it did affect things really badly.

So crap decision but we’re clutching at thin air if we’re blaming that particular decision.

No idea what Arundell was thinking for the second yellow. Just dumb as.

He was looking at the ball.

The issue is back to the defending player being able to take a flying leap knowing that any contact is going to earn a yellow card, Arundell was setting himself to go upwards to contest and misjudged it. All the talk from pundits and on social media last year was the 'disgrace' of Itoje in the refs ear moving Russells conversion, yet Tuipolotu is being praised for keeping on about "it was dangerous"

[bruce]

England flattered to deceive last week being given the game by Wales/the ref. Perhaps they're just not as good as we thought they'd be.

[loudnconfident]

if.....if....if.....

Only gets you so far. Yes, if a couple of things had gone our way things might have turned out differently. They didnt and frankly we didnt do enough to turn things our way when it mattered.

Too many players went missing, or were guilty of skill lapses, taking bad options or a lack of composure. We looked like a team who have never played at Murrayfield, or against a team with their backs against the wall with every incentive to turn us over.

This is a terrible result. No getting away from that. A lot of the good work over the last year has been tarnished and a few reputations badly dented.

Yes!

I think we are still a good team, but maybe we aren't as good as we think we are. And that's a good lesson to learn before the RWC.

[paddy no 11]

First yellow was ridiculous. But those sorts of decisions are instant decisions by refs, who generally make them after a series of pens. They never refer them to the TMO. It was so early in the match it wasn’t a match changer as such, or shouldn’t have been. But we were never up for this, so it did affect things really badly.

So crap decision but we’re clutching at thin air if we’re blaming that particular decision.

No idea what Arundell was thinking for the second yellow. Just dumb as.

He was looking at the ball.

The issue is back to the defending player being able to take a flying leap knowing that any contact is going to earn a yellow card, Arundell was setting himself to go upwards to contest and misjudged it. All the talk from pundits and on social media last year was the 'disgrace' of Itoje in the refs ear moving Russells conversion, yet Tuipolotu is being praised for keeping on about "it was dangerous"

It was dangerous

Arundel plays rugby he's surely cognisant of the fact that the opposition player is going to jump and that he's on a yellow, he's never beating steyn there, let him hit the ground make good tackle and stay on the pitch. We've seen this a 100 times before

[astralweeks]

That was a hard watch, especially with my Scottish wife tittering beside me. I feel that itoje is not in the best two of our second rows. He really seems to have gone off the boil this year. Genge also seemed very subdued and looked like he wasn't really enjoying the game.
Ford really doesn't seem to offer much. OK good kicker, soft hands reads the game blah blah..but nothing seems to happen. Bring Marcus back, he makes thing happen, even though not always in the best way.

[paddy no 11]

I think myles Reed is better than his teammate

[pompey-zebra]

England flattered to deceive last week being given the game by Wales/the ref. Perhaps they're just not as good as we thought they'd be.

The last 20 years of 6 nations winners tends to suggest this.

[Captainhaircut]

Do we think we’re starting to see impact of the lions? There’s a reason France always win the 6N post lions tour.

Itoje, Genge, Curry, Mitchell, Freeman all look a bit short of a gallop currently.

[Buggaluggs]

Can't read too much into it. Last week's game doesn't make England brilliant. This week's doesn't make them shit.

[Insouciant]

Can't read too much into it. Last week's game doesn't make England brilliant. This week's doesn't make them shit.

Indeed. Every so often South Africa lose, no reason why we shouldn't.

[Stom]

I’m hoping that game bring about some change in the lineup (and subs!)

This.

One problem is that who do you replace Genge with?

Pepper… has looked good, but was off the pace, that’s an easy swap when we have Curry.

A new winger. Never select FSmith in the 23 shirt again, it screws up the balance.

But there’s not many changes we can make.

Oh, I’ve never been a big LCD fan, and I thought he was very poor today.

But…

It was a terrible performance as a team, and that is a coaching failure.

[Puja]

If Puja does a minute-by-minute, we'll have to set up a rota for suicide watch

No m-b-m this week, as I'm on holiday. In Scotland.

Just felt like one of those game where absolutely nothing went for us - the reffing decisions, the bounce of the ball, every time where someone got one hand to to the ball and another day it sticks, today it bounced off, while pretty much everything Scotland tried stuck. The White try was a perfect example - 99 times out of 100, Genge slides onto that and secures the ball, but today it bobbles at the wrong time and we're back to 17 points behind again just as we were cut the deficit and starting to get our heads up.

We were shit. Scotland were great. I don't think it's worth chucking the baby out with the bathwater, demanding changes, or particularly judging individuals based on that game - bad day at the office and hopefully some lessons learned for the youngsters. The only change i'd make for Ireland is to recall George as we need the solid base to start the game from - everyone else gets the chance to redeem themselves.

Puja

[SixAndAHalf]

Englands game is based upon aerial dominance which we did not get today. I think today exposed that we don’t have much of a Plan B. The breakdown was also inaccurate partly due to the refereeing.

Great teams are able to win these games even when the Plan A fails. For me with this England team we need to get more A+ carriers in there. Tom Willis is a huge miss but I would have Pollock, Lawrence and MSmith/Furbank/Hendy in for Underhill, Dingers and Steward. Today also showed how we miss IFW vs our other wings.