More on Syria

[rowan]

Surprise, surprise . . .

Amnesty International itself has openly admitted that the summation of the report was fabricated in the United Kingdom at Amnesty International’s office, using a process they call “forensic architecture,” in which the lack of actual, physical, photographic, and video evidence, is replaced by 3D animations and sound effects created by designers hired by Amnesty International.

Amnesty Hired Special Effects Experts to Fabricate “Evidence”

In a video produced by Amnesty International accompanying their report, titled, “Inside Saydnaya: Syria’s Torture Prison,” the narrator admits in its opening seconds that Amnesty International possesses no actual evidence regarding the prison.

There are almost no pictures of its exterior [except satellite images] and none from inside. And what happens within its walls is cloaked in secrecy, until now.

Viewers are initially led to believe evidence has emerged, exposing what took place within the prison’s walls, but the narrator continues by explaining:

We’ve devised a unique way of revealing what life is like inside a torture prison. And we’ve done it by talking to people who were there and have survived its horrors…

…and using their recollections and the testimony of others, we’ve build an interactive 3D model which can take you for the first time inside Saydnaya.

The narrator then explains:

In a unique collaboration, Amnesty International has teamed up with “Forensic Architecture” of Goldsmiths, University of London, to reconstruct both the sound and architecture of Saydnaya prison, and to do it using cutting-edge digital technology to create a model.

In other words, the summation of Amnesty International’s presentation was not accumulated from facts and evidence collected in Syria, but instead fabricated entirely in London using 3D models, animations, and audio software, based on the admittedly baseless accounts of alleged witnesses who claim to have been in or otherwise associated with the prison.


Eyal Weizman, director of “Forensic Architecture,” would admit that “memory” alone was the basis of both his collaboration with Amnesty International, and thus, the basis for Amnesty’s 48 page report:



http://www.globalresearch.ca/fake-news- ... uk/5573847

The accusations are not new, they were being reported last year, the year before that, and the year before that. Basically, since America and its cronies decided to wreck the country like they did Iraq and Libya. So it wasn't news at all, let alone headline news.

So I think we can all agree that:

- there is no actual evidence of torture chambers

- the accusations are based on the testimonies of Assad's enemies

- similar accusations were made again Saddam and Gaddafi

- similar accusations have been made against American allies Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey and Egypt, among others

- such accusations are neither reason nor justification for military intervention in another country

So which part do you disagree with?

Still waiting for that to be answered...

[canta_brian]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterograde_amnesia

[Mellsblue]

First one:

http://www.manu-brabo.com/wire-tales-of-aleppo

Scroll all the way to the right.


Second one:

http://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detail/new ... d612431240


Oh, and here's the first photo used by the Washington Post, crediting it to Brabo.

Good work.

See what you can achieve when you're not throwing around the c word.

[rowan]

Surprise, surprise . . .

Amnesty International itself has openly admitted that the summation of the report was fabricated in the United Kingdom at Amnesty International’s office, using a process they call “forensic architecture,” in which the lack of actual, physical, photographic, and video evidence, is replaced by 3D animations and sound effects created by designers hired by Amnesty International.

Amnesty Hired Special Effects Experts to Fabricate “Evidence”

In a video produced by Amnesty International accompanying their report, titled, “Inside Saydnaya: Syria’s Torture Prison,” the narrator admits in its opening seconds that Amnesty International possesses no actual evidence regarding the prison.

There are almost no pictures of its exterior [except satellite images] and none from inside. And what happens within its walls is cloaked in secrecy, until now.

Viewers are initially led to believe evidence has emerged, exposing what took place within the prison’s walls, but the narrator continues by explaining:

We’ve devised a unique way of revealing what life is like inside a torture prison. And we’ve done it by talking to people who were there and have survived its horrors…

…and using their recollections and the testimony of others, we’ve build an interactive 3D model which can take you for the first time inside Saydnaya.

The narrator then explains:

In a unique collaboration, Amnesty International has teamed up with “Forensic Architecture” of Goldsmiths, University of London, to reconstruct both the sound and architecture of Saydnaya prison, and to do it using cutting-edge digital technology to create a model.

In other words, the summation of Amnesty International’s presentation was not accumulated from facts and evidence collected in Syria, but instead fabricated entirely in London using 3D models, animations, and audio software, based on the admittedly baseless accounts of alleged witnesses who claim to have been in or otherwise associated with the prison.


Eyal Weizman, director of “Forensic Architecture,” would admit that “memory” alone was the basis of both his collaboration with Amnesty International, and thus, the basis for Amnesty’s 48 page report:



http://www.globalresearch.ca/fake-news- ... uk/5573847

The accusations are not new, they were being reported last year, the year before that, and the year before that. Basically, since America and its cronies decided to wreck the country like they did Iraq and Libya. So it wasn't news at all, let alone headline news.

So I think we can all agree that:

- there is no actual evidence of torture chambers

- the accusations are based on the testimonies of Assad's enemies

- similar accusations were made against Saddam and Gaddafi

- similar accusations have been made against American allies Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey and Egypt, among others

- such accusations are neither reason nor justification for military intervention in another country

So which part do you disagree with?

Still waiting for that to be answered...[/quote]

No answer, because you hold the imperialist view and are fixated on trying to win an argument to appease your delusions. For you the fact the world's major superpower is dropping bombs on the other side of the world - yet again - is merely the natural order of things, might makes right, & It's the non-white, non-Christian victims of the super power's bombing who are the villains in the piece, because your mainstream media propaganda tells you so. Your ignorance becomes arrogance, and you claim expertise on an issue you really know nothing about and close your ears to anything which conflicts with your fantasies. Imperialist rampages require brainwashed apologists like you. But you are very much in the minority.

[Donny osmond]

Is it just me...?

[loudnconfident]

No answer, because you hold the imperialist view and are fixated on trying to win an argument to appease your delusions. For you the fact the world's major superpower is dropping bombs on the other side of the world - yet again - is merely the natural order of things, might makes right, & It's the non-white, non-Christian victims of the super power's bombing who are the villains in the piece, because your mainstream media propaganda tells you so. Your ignorance becomes arrogance, and you claim expertise on an issue you really know nothing about and close your ears to anything which conflicts with your fantasies. Imperialist rampages require brainwashed apologists like you. But you are very much in the minority.

Joining this late - may have missed a lot - Rowan you seem to be oblivious to the underlying issue - the 1300+ year old war between Sunni and Shia Islam (and the many problems with Islam as a a belief system). Wrt Aleppo, the MSM missed this one...

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/featur ... Yemen.html

The deputy commander of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Gen. Hossein Salami told the official Iranian news agency (Islamic Republic News Agency) that “The victory in Aleppo will pave the way for liberating Bahrain,” pointing out that Iran has an expansion project that will extend to Bahrain, Yemen and Mosul after the fall of the Syrian city of Aleppo.
Salami said that “the people of Bahrain will achieve their wishes, the Yemeni people will be delighted, and the residents of Mosul will taste victory, these are all divine promises,” as he put it."

For what the Sunnis do to Shias in Yemen, this clip is from a Mosque bombing (The BBC said they were "praying" ) "

https://www.memri.org/tv/worshippers-cu ... bing-yemen

(and we in the West should stay the $%^ out!)

[WaspInWales]

Is it just me...?

Are you asking if you're the only imperialist pig/swine?

I think I can safely say no to that.

[Mellsblue]

Is it just me...?

Are you asking if you're the only imperialist pig/swine?

I think I can safely say no to that.

Yet more answers to questions. This politics board is really starting to go somewhere.

[Donny osmond]

Is it just me...?

Are you asking if you're the only imperialist pig/swine?

I think I can safely say no to that.

No, that answer has been obvious for a while.

No I was asking, albeit obliquely, if anyone else was perplexed by Rowan having an argument with himself.

[rowan]

No answer, because you hold the imperialist view and are fixated on trying to win an argument to appease your delusions. For you the fact the world's major superpower is dropping bombs on the other side of the world - yet again - is merely the natural order of things, might makes right, & It's the non-white, non-Christian victims of the super power's bombing who are the villains in the piece, because your mainstream media propaganda tells you so. Your ignorance becomes arrogance, and you claim expertise on an issue you really know nothing about and close your ears to anything which conflicts with your fantasies. Imperialist rampages require brainwashed apologists like you. But you are very much in the minority.

Joining this late - may have missed a lot - Rowan you seem to be oblivious to the underlying issue - the 1300+ year old war between Sunni and Shia Islam (and the many problems with Islam as a a belief system). Wrt Aleppo, the MSM missed this one...

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/featur ... Yemen.html

The deputy commander of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Gen. Hossein Salami told the official Iranian news agency (Islamic Republic News Agency) that “The victory in Aleppo will pave the way for liberating Bahrain,” pointing out that Iran has an expansion project that will extend to Bahrain, Yemen and Mosul after the fall of the Syrian city of Aleppo.
Salami said that “the people of Bahrain will achieve their wishes, the Yemeni people will be delighted, and the residents of Mosul will taste victory, these are all divine promises,” as he put it."

For what the Sunnis do to Shias in Yemen, this clip is from a Mosque bombing (The BBC said they were "praying" ) "

https://www.memri.org/tv/worshippers-cu ... bing-yemen

(and we in the West should stay the $%^ out!)

Yes, you joined the discussion late and missed a lot. No argument there.

No, I am not oblivious to the Sunni -Shi'ite divide which you incorrectly describe as a 1300 year old war. This is an arrogant presumption, indicative of an imperialist mindset. I happen to live in a Sunni majority nation with a Shi'ite minority, and have done so for 12 years. Guess what, of the many conflicts were have here, that ain't one of them.

For centuries Sunnis, Shi'ites, Christians, Jews and others lived side by side in the Middle East. The Pax Ottomanica was in stark contrast to Europe at the time, which was rife with holy wars. The greater part of the historical conflicts betwen Sunnis and Shi'ites were in reality border wars between the Ottomans and the Safavid Empire of Iran - who actually co-existed peaceful for most of the time, and were not at war at all during the final century of Ottoman history.

It may also interest you to learn that Sunnis and Shi'ites frequently discuss and exchange ideos on religion, and have done so for centuries. Sunnis are actually taught Shi'ite theology as part of their leaning.

With regards to Iran, whilst mainstream media likes to inform us again and again how it is bent on destroying the civilized world, it hasn't actually attacked another country for 300 years (though it has been forced to defend itself on various occasions, mostly from the West or Western-backed regimes such as Saddam's Iraq). Research had shown overwhelmingly that Middle Easterners regard Israel as the greatest threat to regional security, followed by the US and Saudi Arabia. Iran is well down the list.

& as for Yemen, you might be interested to know I have an entire thread running on the topic. Yes, most of the civilian carnage has been created by the Saudi-US coalition, by targetting schools, hospitals, weddings, funerals and just about anywhere else civilians are inclined to amass, while and Britain has contributed substantially through the sale of weaponry used.

[rowan]

No answer, because you hold the imperialist view and are fixated on trying to win an argument to appease your delusions. For you the fact the world's major superpower is dropping bombs on the other side of the world - yet again - is merely the natural order of things, might makes right, & It's the non-white, non-Christian victims of the super power's bombing who are the villains in the piece, because your mainstream media propaganda tells you so. Your ignorance becomes arrogance, and you claim expertise on an issue you really know nothing about and close your ears to anything which conflicts with your fantasies. Imperialist rampages require brainwashed apologists like you. But you are very much in the minority.

Joining this late - may have missed a lot - Rowan you seem to be oblivious to the underlying issue - the 1300+ year old war between Sunni and Shia Islam (and the many problems with Islam as a a belief system). Wrt Aleppo, the MSM missed this one...

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/featur ... Yemen.html

The deputy commander of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Gen. Hossein Salami told the official Iranian news agency (Islamic Republic News Agency) that “The victory in Aleppo will pave the way for liberating Bahrain,” pointing out that Iran has an expansion project that will extend to Bahrain, Yemen and Mosul after the fall of the Syrian city of Aleppo.
Salami said that “the people of Bahrain will achieve their wishes, the Yemeni people will be delighted, and the residents of Mosul will taste victory, these are all divine promises,” as he put it."

For what the Sunnis do to Shias in Yemen, this clip is from a Mosque bombing (The BBC said they were "praying" ) "

https://www.memri.org/tv/worshippers-cu ... bing-yemen

(and we in the West should stay the $%^ out!)

Yes, you joined the discussion late and missed a lot. No argument there.

No, I am not oblivious to the Sunni -Shi'ite divide which you incorrectly describe as a 1300 year old war. This is an arrogant presumption, indicative of an imperialist mindset. I happen to live in a Sunni majority nation with a Shi'ite minority, and have done so for 12 years. Guess what, of the many conflicts we have here, that ain't one of them.

For centuries Sunnis, Shi'ites, Christians, Jews and others lived harmoniously side by side in the Middle East. The Pax Ottomanica was in stark contrast to Europe at the time, which was rife with holy wars. The greater part of the historical conflicts betwen Sunnis and Shi'ites were in reality border wars between the Ottomans and the Safavid Empire of Iran - who actually co-existed peaceful for most of the time, and were not at war at all during the final century of Ottoman history.

It may also interest you to learn that Sunnis and Shi'ites frequently discuss and exchange ideos on religion, and have done so for centuries. Sunnis are actually taught Shi'ite theology as part of their leaning.

With regards to Iran, whilst mainstream media likes to inform us again and again how it is bent on destroying the civilized world, it hasn't actually attacked another country for 300 years (though it has been forced to defend itself on various occasions, mostly from the West or Western-backed regimes such as Saddam's Iraq). Research had shown overwhelmingly that Middle Easterners regard Israel as the greatest threat to regional security, followed by the US and Saudi Arabia. Iran is well down the list.

& as for Yemen, you might be interested to know I have an entire thread running on the topic. Yes, most of the civilian carnage has been created by the Saudi-US coalition, by targetting schools, hospitals, weddings, funerals and just about anywhere else civilians are inclined to amass, while Britain has contributed substantially through the sale of weaponry used.

[Sandydragon]

Well that's a rose tinted view of the Ottoman Empire. The treatment of minorities varied depending on who was in charge at a particular time.

[rowan]

Well that's a rose tinted view of the Ottoman Empire. The treatment of minorities varied depending on who was in charge at a particular time.

The Ottomans were an empire like any other. They invaded, massacred and subjugated to expand their own territories and gain control of greater resources. But the former colonies in the Middle East have in common the viewpoint that they were better off under Ottoman rule - which at least shared the same religion - than they were under European control or have been since under Neo-Colonialism and Western rule by proxy. The wars of the past century have largely been a result of the latter.

[loudnconfident]

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/featur ... Yemen.html

The deputy commander of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Gen. Hossein Salami told the official Iranian news agency (Islamic Republic News Agency) that “The victory in Aleppo will pave the way for liberating Bahrain,” pointing out that Iran has an expansion project that will extend to Bahrain, Yemen and Mosul after the fall of the Syrian city of Aleppo.
Salami said that “the people of Bahrain will achieve their wishes, the Yemeni people will be delighted, and the residents of Mosul will taste victory, these are all divine promises,” as he put it."

For what the Sunnis do to Shias in Yemen, this clip is from a Mosque bombing (The BBC said they were "praying" ) "

https://www.memri.org/tv/worshippers-cu ... bing-yemen

(and we in the West should stay the $%^ out!)

Yes, you joined the discussion late and missed a lot. No argument there.

No, I am not oblivious to the Sunni -Shi'ite divide which you incorrectly describe as a 1300 year old war. This is an arrogant presumption, indicative of an imperialist mindset.

I think you are delusional. The sunni/shia split happened after Mo's death ~630CE and so is ~1300 odd years old. I would agree that its waxed and waned throughout that time (like Xtian religious disputes of course) and that the Iranian revolution in 1980s, and Saudi fear of democracy, has fed it recently. But the problem is an Arab/Muslim one and its not the Fault Of Arrogant Westerners. You ignore my first quote. Bahrain is a Shia- majority nation with a Sunni dictatorship. Yemen is Shia (which is why Saudi is bombing it). ISIS - an extreme Sunni organisation - attacks Shia places of worship regularly (as my second clip demonstrates. ISIS also slaughter non-Muslims, of course, and attack non-Muslim places of worship.

It may also interest you to learn that Sunnis and Shi'ites frequently discuss and exchange ideos on religion, and have done so for centuries. Sunnis are actually taught Shi'ite theology as part of their leaning.

Cozy corner again. Is this an example of the "exchange of ideas" between the two sects that you are on about? (very recent clip from Egyptian TV. quite amusing in some ways, horrific in others)
https://www.memri.org/tv/chairs-cups-th ... ns-violent

The "debate" concerns banning Shi'ite texts at a Cairo book fair...

& as for Yemen, you might be interested to know I have an entire thread running on the topic. Yes, most of the civilian carnage has been created by the Saudi-US coalition, by targetting schools, hospitals, weddings, funerals and just about anywhere else civilians are inclined to amass, while Britain has contributed substantially through the sale of weaponry used.

Maybe we should'nt sell 'em arms, but its the Sunni/Shia hate which uses them - and, deep down, you know that.

[rowan]

No answer, because you hold the imperialist view and are fixated on trying to win an argument to appease your delusions. For you the fact the world's major superpower is dropping bombs on the other side of the world - yet again - is merely the natural order of things, might makes right, & It's the non-white, non-Christian victims of the super power's bombing who are the villains in the piece, because your mainstream media propaganda tells you so. Your ignorance becomes arrogance, and you claim expertise on an issue you really know nothing about and close your ears to anything which conflicts with your fantasies. Imperialist rampages require brainwashed apologists like you. But you are very much in the minority.

Joining this late - may have missed a lot - Rowan you seem to be oblivious to the underlying issue - the 1300+ year old war between Sunni and Shia Islam (and the many problems with Islam as a a belief system). Wrt Aleppo, the MSM missed this one...

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/featur ... Yemen.html

The deputy commander of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Gen. Hossein Salami told the official Iranian news agency (Islamic Republic News Agency) that “The victory in Aleppo will pave the way for liberating Bahrain,” pointing out that Iran has an expansion project that will extend to Bahrain, Yemen and Mosul after the fall of the Syrian city of Aleppo.
Salami said that “the people of Bahrain will achieve their wishes, the Yemeni people will be delighted, and the residents of Mosul will taste victory, these are all divine promises,” as he put it."

For what the Sunnis do to Shias in Yemen, this clip is from a Mosque bombing (The BBC said they were "praying" ) "

https://www.memri.org/tv/worshippers-cu ... bing-yemen

(and we in the West should stay the $%^ out!)

Yes, you joined the discussion late and missed a lot. No argument there.

No, I am not oblivious to the Sunni -Shi'ite divide which you incorrectly describe as a 1300 year old war. This is an arrogant presumption, indicative of an imperialist mindset. I happen to live in a Sunni majority nation with a Shi'ite minority, and have done so for 12 years. Guess what, of the many conflicts we have here, that ain't one of them.

For centuries Sunnis, Shi'ites, Christians, Jews and others lived harmoniously side by side in the Middle East. The Pax Ottomanica was in stark contrast to Europe at the time, which was rife with holy wars. The greater part of the historical conflicts betwen Sunnis and Shi'ites were in reality border wars between the Ottomans and the Safavid Empire of Iran - who actually co-existed peaceful for most of the time, and were not at war at all during the final century of Ottoman history.

It may also interest you to learn that Sunnis and Shi'ites frequently discuss and exchange ideos on religion, and have done so for centuries. Sunnis are actually taught Shi'ite theology as part of their leaning.

With regards to Iran, whilst mainstream media likes to inform us again and again how it is bent on destroying the civilized world, it hasn't actually attacked another country for 300 years (though it has been forced to defend itself on various occasions, mostly from the West or Western-backed regimes such as Saddam's Iraq). Research had shown overwhelmingly that Middle Easterners regard Israel as the greatest threat to regional security, followed by the US and Saudi Arabia. Iran is well down the list.

& as for Yemen, you might be interested to know I have an entire thread running on the topic. Yes, most of the civilian carnage has been created by the Saudi-US coalition, by targetting schools, hospitals, weddings, funerals and just about anywhere else civilians are inclined to amass, while Britain has contributed substantially through the sale of weaponry used.

Loudandconfident, you should change your nickname to Ignorantandarrogant, because that's what you are. You know nothing about the Sunni - Shi'ite divide. That's clear from your comments. & you didn't even attempt to deal with any of the points I made, just reverted to juvenile insults instead.

[Donny osmond]

Well that's a rose tinted view of the Ottoman Empire. The treatment of minorities varied depending on who was in charge at a particular time.

He's on about the pax ottomanica again. If you look it up it refers to a couple if decades of sulayman the greats rule, and refers only to specific parts of the empire. It's one of those historian things; as an amusing comparison there is also a period known as the pax mongolica comprising the peace and order brought about by the empire expansion of genghis khan and his descendents. You know, the biggest, most violent, most ruthless mass murderers in history? The pax ottomanica is a similar concept.

[rowan]

Well that's a rose tinted view of the Ottoman Empire. The treatment of minorities varied depending on who was in charge at a particular time.

He's on about the pax ottomanica again. If you look it up it refers to a couple if decades of sulayman the greats rule, and refers only to specific parts of the empire. It's one of those historian things; as an amusing comparison there is also a period known as the pax mongolica comprising the peace and order brought about by the empire expansion of genghis khan and his descendents. You know, the biggest, most violent, most ruthless mass murderers in history? The pax ottomanica is a similar concept.

At least you pressed the google search button for a change and actually looked something up, rather than spouting mindless nonsense. But I'm not sure exactly what kind of a point you were trying to make, if any at all. The comment I made about this period of Ottoman history was that Europe was torn apart by holy wars at the time. If you go back to the google search engine and research this as well, you will see that I was correct. The period did not cover the entirety of the Ottoman Empire's 723-year-reign. It was simply presented as an example of a time - one of many - when the Muslims were at peace while the Christians were fighting. You, however, have endeavored to twist it into something else with this irrelevant waffle about the Mongols. That's because you are here solely to try and win and argument that appeased your ego.

[Donny osmond]

Well that's a rose tinted view of the Ottoman Empire. The treatment of minorities varied depending on who was in charge at a particular time.

He's on about the pax ottomanica again. If you look it up it refers to a couple if decades of sulayman the greats rule, and refers only to specific parts of the empire. It's one of those historian things; as an amusing comparison there is also a period known as the pax mongolica comprising the peace and order brought about by the empire expansion of genghis khan and his descendents. You know, the biggest, most violent, most ruthless mass murderers in history? The pax ottomanica is a similar concept.

At least you pressed the google search button for a change and actually looked something up, rather than spouting mindless nonsense. But I'm not sure exactly what kind of a point you were trying to make, if any at all. The comment I made about this period of Ottoman history was that Europe was torn apart by holy wars at the time. If you go back to the google search engine and research this as well, you will see that I was correct. The period did not cover the entirety of the Ottoman Empire's 723-year-reign. It was simply presented as an example of a time - one of many - when the Muslims were at peace while the Christians were fighting. You, however, have endeavored to twist it into something else with this irrelevant waffle about the Mongols. That's because you are here solely to try and win and argument that appeased your ego.

Unlike the time I googled amnesty's report and showed up your hypocrisy you mean?

"The muslims were at peace while the christians were fighting..." flat out lie (and one that interestingly exposes your bigotry) the pax ottomanica doesnt refer to that at all, as you'd know if only the globalresearch website had an article you could cut and paste.

The waffle about the Mongols did its job perfectly.. illustrated a comparative point whilst giving you the chance to show your lack of basic comprehension by completely missing the point that was made.

[loudnconfident]

Loudandconfident, you should change your nickname to Ignorantandarrogant, because that's what you are. You know nothing about the Sunni - Shi'ite divide. That's clear from your comments. & you didn't even attempt to deal with any of the points I made, just reverted to juvenile insults instead.

I don't think this is getting us very far. I'm sorry you're so blinkered. I'm sorry you have ignored the Sunni/Shia split, which divided the Muslim world after Mo's death. The current situation is well shown in the 3 recent clips I posted, all of which you have ignored. We are living in 2017, not some misty paradise centurys ago. People are suffering now, and you should take it seriously. One more try - have you studied the Islamic catastrophe in the 1000s when Al-Ghazali's influence destroyed science and rational investigation in the Arab world? Looking at his influence might, I hope, get you to learn something. I can only hope that the Arab world shakes off such burdens as is able to think freely, but I'm not optimistic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali

[Donny osmond]

Loudandconfident, you should change your nickname to Ignorantandarrogant, because that's what you are. You know nothing about the Sunni - Shi'ite divide. That's clear from your comments. & you didn't even attempt to deal with any of the points I made, just reverted to juvenile insults instead.

I don't think this is getting us very far. I'm sorry you're so blinkered. I'm sorry you have ignored the Sunni/Shia split, which divided the Muslim world after Mo's death. The current situation is well shown in the 3 recent clips I posted, all of which you have ignored. We are living in 2017, not some misty paradise centurys ago. People are suffering now, and you should take it seriously. One more try - have you studied the Islamic catastrophe in the 1000s when Al-Ghazali's influence destroyed science and rational investigation in the Arab world? Looking at his influence might, I hope, get you to learn something. I can only hope that the Arab world shakes off such burdens as is able to think freely, but I'm not optimistic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali

I hope you're not using actual research, that won't wash with Rowan

[Mellsblue]

I can't believe Mo Farah is dead.

[rowan]

Yes, definitely time to get the conversation back on track/ To wit . . .

And as has been explained to you countless times before, the civil war in Syria was started by Assad when he cracked down on protestors. Our version of events just ignores all inconvenient facts.

& as has been eplained to you countless times before, the students and feminists involved in the Arab Spring protests did not morph into heavily armed, machine gun-toting Jihadi terrorists equipped with American weapons and vehicles as a result of that excessive - though highly exaggerated by the West - crackdown. It was simply the pretext for the proxies to be sent in to destabilize the country with a view to regime change.

There were plenty of reasons why the US and its allies wanted regime change. The Qatar - Turkey pipeline Assad rejected, Israel's border disputes with Syria (UN ruled against Israel), Turkey's concerns about Kurdish rebels operating from behind the Syrian border, and Saudi's wish to break the Shi'ite crescent from Iran to Lebanon which the US created with another of its regime changes in Iraq.

I mean, how many regime change operations does it take for you to figure out the pattern here? Do you still believe the WOMD theories? Do you still believe Gaddafi was planning a genocide of his own people? Do you still believe America has occupied Afghanistan for 16 years because it harbored Osama bin Laden?

I bet you'd even tell us the Mau Mau were really responsible for the British concentration camps in Kenya and the native Americans were responsible for the genocide in North America because they fired off a few arrows in retaliation. That's what it comes down to, I'm afraid - an imperialist mentality. We can kills millions of them, and when they resist that's our justification.

Btw, you know why Syria is allied to Russia, don't you? Because America tried regime change there once before, midway through the last century just before they helped overthrow Iran's first democratic government. That was during the Cold War and the US was forced to leave Syria alone or face the prospect of WWIII with the Soviets. Obviously not worth it.

I was in Syria not long before the Arab Spring and there was no sign of trouble at all. Refugees were flooding in from America's war on Iraq at the time. I actually travelled out to the Shi'ite quarter with my UN photographer buddy and met some of them. I'm sure you'll be quick to tell us about Assad Snr's Hama Massacre back in 82, but it is seldom mentioned this was the end result of an armed Muslim Brotherhood insurrection which involved acts of terrorism and an unsuccessful attempt to assassinate the leader.

Meanwhile, as for the comparison between Trump and Obama's first years in office, this might be of interest:

Among the many grisly scenes Obama will carry to his well-heated grave, one occurred early in his presidency in the first week of May 2009, a U.S. air-strike killed more than ten dozen civilians in Bola Boluk, a village in western Afghanistan’s Farah Province. Ninety-three of the dead villagers torn apart by U.S. explosives were children. Just 22 were males 18 years or older. As the New York Times reported:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/02/03/ ... terrorism/

& as for Iran's missile program:

[morepork]

Man oh man, there is a serious disconnect at play here.


The inter web has much to answer for.

[canta_brian]

I can't believe Mo Farah is dead.

Just after the first km apparently

[loudnconfident]

I can't believe Mo Farah is dead.

The Mo I referred to is - I believe - sharing a flat with Jesus. You can follow their adventures at
http://www.jesusandmo.net

(Highly recommended and worth supporting )