Anti-Zionism

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Sandydragon
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Sandydragon »

Zhivago wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:So Corbyn has deleted his personal Facebook profile after weeks of criticism. Apparently he was added to various groups without his knowledge, which to be fair is bollocks but it will keep this core support happy.
How is it bollocks?
He has been a member of these groups for some time. Now I wouldn’t expect him to read every post, but when the issue was raised, rather than issue a strongly worded condemnation of racism, the official line is that he always intended to delete his personal account anyway. An opportunity to reassure missed.

We all have busy lives but for a politician who is active on Facebook a fair bit, he probably should have realised that he was being invited to various groups and perhaps checked that he wanted to participate.

All of that is being generous given that some reporting suggests that he actively participated in discussions and would thus b very aware of the tone of that group.
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by rowan »

It seems that Israel may have been using internationally banned weapons during its massacre of native Palestinian civilians on Friday. Does this mean Donald Trump will order a missile to be fired into Tel Aviv? Does this mean that US and EU politicians will unreservedly condemn Israel and call for regime change? Does this mean there will be a NATO invasion or US-led intervention? Of course not, the US and EU are blatantly racist hypocrites.

The Israeli army injured almost 1,500 people, more than 800 of them with live ammunition, according to the health ministry.

Dr. Mohammed Ziara, a general practitioner at Gaza City’s al-Shifa hospital, posted pictures on Twitter that show devastating injuries sustained by protesters. Ziara told The Electronic Intifada that the images were taken by surgeons at the spital who treated the injuries.

The images indicate Israeli forces may have used bullets that fragment in the body causing massive damage to tissue. Bullets that expand or fragment are banned under international law.


Image

Meanwhile Israelis have been marching in the streets calling for a genocide of the native population
https://www.mintpressnews.com/thousands ... de/221168/

& African immigrants are to be deported to Europe. The world really hasn't seen anything like this since the Apartheid regime in South Africa was at its height:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-isra ... SKCN1H90WQ

&
Israeli forces shoot deaf child in head in Gaza, Israel will not investigate deaths

Image

https://israelpalestinenews.org/israeli ... te-deaths/

Abdel Raouf al-Balawi, 13, was sentenced to four months in an Israeli military prison after being forced to confess to throwing stones.

https://electronicintifada.net/content/ ... tion/23781
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Zhivago
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Zhivago »

Sandydragon wrote:
Zhivago wrote:
Sandydragon wrote: They probably don’t care a jot. But if normal people who might be tempted to vote labour realise what a bunch of abhorrent scum bags the leadership is, then that’s all to the good.

Racism isn’t acceptable, in any form.
You know that the media has zero credibility for very valid reasons. They have not been subtle with their attacks, and every time they screech hysterically they undermine themselves further. It's basically the boy who cried wolf... It was clear that it was a load of bullshit when they claimed he was a terrorist lover and a commie spy, now he's basically an antisemitic Nazi? No wonder people have become inured to such extreme messages.
Zero credibility? Putting to one side the red tops and Daily Mail, most of the rest have highlighted his past fairly. Unless it’s all lies about him meeting terrorists, etc? I think not. His own record speaks for itself, it doesn’t need anyone to embellish it.

Corbyn has had many opportunities to stamp on thout Antisemitism inhis party. He has failed. The worst are those closest to him. Corbyn sown views might be very different, but he isn’t gripping the problem. I notice that labours membership has dropped in the past week as a result of this and the Russian poisoning. It’s obvious there is a problem yet there is a real failure of leadership.
Hahaha

"I notice..."

No you don't, that's just another lie you've swallowed whole. Labour's member numbers never reflect recent decisions as Labour membership conditions incorporate a 6 month period of membership after cancellation.

And the rest is just nonsense too

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Zhivago
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Zhivago »

Sandydragon wrote:
Zhivago wrote:
Sandydragon wrote:So Corbyn has deleted his personal Facebook profile after weeks of criticism. Apparently he was added to various groups without his knowledge, which to be fair is bollocks but it will keep this core support happy.
How is it bollocks?
He has been a member of these groups for some time. Now I wouldn’t expect him to read every post, but when the issue was raised, rather than issue a strongly worded condemnation of racism, the official line is that he always intended to delete his personal account anyway. An opportunity to reassure missed.

We all have busy lives but for a politician who is active on Facebook a fair bit, he probably should have realised that he was being invited to various groups and perhaps checked that he wanted to participate.

All of that is being generous given that some reporting suggests that he actively participated in discussions and would thus b very aware of the tone of that group.
I think he has more important things to do that trawl through all the groups he is added to and read all the comments to make sure there isn't anything compromising.

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rowan
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by rowan »

30 billion dollars of US tax-payers' money goes toward the slaughter of Palestinians annually . . .


Israel Kills Palestinians and Western Liberals Shrug. Their Humanitarianism Is a Sham.


SHOULD WE REALLY be surprised, though? After all, this isn’t the first time that members of the liberal intervention brigade have shamelessly ignored the tragic deaths of innocent Palestinians.

In March 2001, towards the start of the “Second Intifada,” and with the Palestinian civilian death toll mounting, the U.N. Security Council proposed a resolution that would have “set up an appropriate mechanism to protect Palestinian civilians, including through the establishment of a United Nations observer force” on the ground in the Occupied Territories. The United States, however, in the form of the George W. Bush administration, vetoed that resolution. What was the response from U.S. liberals? They stayed mum.

In the summer of 2014, the Israeli air force — for the the third time in six years — pounded the Gaza Strip, dropping bombs on schools, hospitals, and apartment buildings, and killing more than 1,500 Palestinian civilians — including 500 children — in the process. What was the position of then-U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (who would later throw her support behind a “no-fly” zone over Syria)? “Hamas provoked another attack” while “Israel has a right to defend itself.” And what was the response from her fellow liberals? Most of them didn’t say a word.

Fast forward to 2018: This time round, 17 dead and 1,400 wounded. Videos going viral of Israeli soldiers — armed and funded by U.S. taxpayers — shooting fleeing Palestinians in their backs. Again, not a peep on Twitter, or elsewhere, from the leaders of the Democratic Party in Congress, such as Sen. Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. For liberal Democrats, #resistance is supposed to be against the Trump administration and the so-called alt-right, not against the longest military occupation in the world.

This moral blindness that so many liberals and progressives in the United States have for the Palestinians has never ceased to amaze — or disgust — me. As the Israeli writer and economist Abraham Gutman notes, “This blind spot is so pronounced that it created a whole new type of progressive, the PEP, ‘Progressive-Except-on-Palestine.’” The PEP, he continues, “is horrified by the appointment of Jeff Sessions as Attorney General, but willing to argue that there is nuance and perhaps support the government of Israel, with [Ayelet] Shaked as the Minister of Justice, who posted on Facebook an article calling Palestinian children ‘little snakes.’”

Indeed. The PEP will loudly condemn the bigotry and nativism of the Republican Party in the United States, and the ongoing segregation and racism in the Deep South, while averting their gaze from the brazen racism of the Israeli government and the ongoing apartheid in the Occupied Territories.

The PEP rails against Trump and his hawkish minions while standing to applaud Netanyahu or smiling in photos with Lieberman — this despite the fact that the similarities between the Trump and Netanyahu administrations have been well–documented.

And the PEP who happens to be a proud supporter of liberal interventionism will back interventions almost everywhere except the Occupied Territories. Their heart bleeds for Syrians, Libyans, Afghans, Iraqis, Rwandans, Kosovars … but not for Palestinians.

This is not an exercise in whataboutism; it is about drawing attention to blatant double standards and moral hypocrisy. On Palestine, liberal interventionists who happen to be “progressive-except-on-Palestine” borrow from the Trump playbook when they cynically blame “both sides” for the violence. They claim that Palestinian deaths are the consequence of “clashes” and “confrontations.” Yet the reality is that one side is the occupier and the other is the occupied; one side has rockets and rifles and the other side has rocks and slingshots; one side is doing the killing and the other side is doing the dying.

There is no other conclusion: The ongoing and glaring refusal of liberal interventionists in the West to say even a word about the need to protect occupied Palestinians from state-sponsored violence is a reminder of just how morally bankrupt and cynically hypocritical the whole “liberal intervention” shtick is.



https://theintercept.com/2018/04/02/isr ... anitarian/

Also, interesting analysis of demographics from Jonathan Cook

https://www.thenational.ae/opinion/comm ... n-1.718183
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Digby »

Zhivago wrote:
And the rest is just nonsense too

Even Momentum are now saying there's a problem, and it should be a warning for everyone that if you're still acting in blind support when even Momentum have noticed something's up you really have charged off well beyond the pale
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Zhivago »

Digby wrote:
Zhivago wrote:
And the rest is just nonsense too

Even Momentum are now saying there's a problem, and it should be a warning for everyone that if you're still acting in blind support when even Momentum have noticed something's up you really have charged off well beyond the pale
I never said there's not a problem, I actually stated earlier that there is one. But what I'm saying differently to you is that the media narrative is using this problem out of context to attack Corbyn.

Some facts:
a) there is anti-semitic views held among all parties according to survey data.
b) in Labour the proportion of those agreeing with anti-semitic tropes is less than Tories.
c) this proportion has decreased under Corbyn.

The narrative being pushed suggests the opposite to those key facts.

It has become ridiculous, with political opponents such as Guido Fawkes whose blog is massively racist, jumping on the bandwagon of the anti-semitism narrative.

If you can't see this, then you are blind to the propaganda which is a constant and total force in our society.

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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Digby »

Zhivago wrote:
Digby wrote:
Zhivago wrote:
And the rest is just nonsense too

Even Momentum are now saying there's a problem, and it should be a warning for everyone that if you're still acting in blind support when even Momentum have noticed something's up you really have charged off well beyond the pale
I never said there's not a problem, I actually stated earlier that there is one. But what I'm saying differently to you is that the media narrative is using this problem out of context to attack Corbyn.

Some facts:
a) there is anti-semitic views held among all parties according to survey data.
b) in Labour the proportion of those agreeing with anti-semitic tropes is less than Tories.
c) this proportion has decreased under Corbyn.

The narrative being pushed suggests the opposite to those key facts.

It has become ridiculous, with political opponents such as Guido Fawkes whose blog is massively racist, jumping on the bandwagon of the anti-semitism narrative.

If you can't see this, then you are blind to the propaganda which is a constant and total force in our society.

Of course we're using it to attack Corbyn. What do you expect when people don't like a position a senior politician takes? Also the attacks against Glorious Leader™ on this are specifically in context, in that he mayn't himself be racist/sexist but he aligns with people who share a dislike for the West/Capitalism, and many of those people he aligns with are racist and misogynistic but he gives them cover in the name of the greater good.

My thinking at present is his certainty of the greater good blinds him to the dangers present in those he uses for some of his political base. That mayn't be the case, but until he sets out a narrative with a credible alternative it's the best I've got to go on. This is why I don't like Corbyn, there are any number of socialists I wouldn't vote for on the basis they're socialists, but I think they're good people who I just don't politically agree with, Corbyn however excuses violence, sexism and racism on an ongoing basis, that basis may be his dislike for the West rather than his personal views on women or Jewish people, but either way it marks him out as a rather pathetic shit.

(I couldn't tell you anything about what the Guido Fawkes blog says, I wouldn't waste my time reading it, if you don't like it then maybe you too would do better not reading it)
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Re: Anti-Zionism

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Digby wrote: (I couldn't tell you anything about what the Guido Fawkes blog says, I wouldn't waste my time reading it, if you don't like it then maybe you too would do better not reading it)
All well and good except both the BBC and Guardian as well as other media have used it as the basis for leading stories.

Our whole press is a cesspit of misinformation, and until you realise that, you will continue to be duped into your misinformed views.

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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Zhivago »

Digby wrote:
Zhivago wrote:
Digby wrote:

Even Momentum are now saying there's a problem, and it should be a warning for everyone that if you're still acting in blind support when even Momentum have noticed something's up you really have charged off well beyond the pale
I never said there's not a problem, I actually stated earlier that there is one. But what I'm saying differently to you is that the media narrative is using this problem out of context to attack Corbyn.

Some facts:
a) there is anti-semitic views held among all parties according to survey data.
b) in Labour the proportion of those agreeing with anti-semitic tropes is less than Tories.
c) this proportion has decreased under Corbyn.

The narrative being pushed suggests the opposite to those key facts.

It has become ridiculous, with political opponents such as Guido Fawkes whose blog is massively racist, jumping on the bandwagon of the anti-semitism narrative.

If you can't see this, then you are blind to the propaganda which is a constant and total force in our society.

Of course we're using it to attack Corbyn. What do you expect when people don't like a position a senior politician takes? Also the attacks against Glorious Leader™ on this are specifically in context, in that he mayn't himself be racist/sexist but he aligns with people who share a dislike for the West/Capitalism, and many of those people he aligns with are racist and misogynistic but he gives them cover in the name of the greater good.

My thinking at present is his certainty of the greater good blinds him to the dangers present in those he uses for some of his political base. That mayn't be the case, but until he sets out a narrative with a credible alternative it's the best I've got to go on. This is why I don't like Corbyn, there are any number of socialists I wouldn't vote for on the basis they're socialists, but I think they're good people who I just don't politically agree with, Corbyn however excuses violence, sexism and racism on an ongoing basis, that basis may be his dislike for the West rather than his personal views on women or Jewish people, but either way it marks him out as a rather pathetic shit.

(I couldn't tell you anything about what the Guido Fawkes blog says, I wouldn't waste my time reading it, if you don't like it then maybe you too would do better not reading it)
If you'd elaborate here, would be appreciated... It's the opposite to my impression. Open to facts if there are any.

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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Digby »

Zhivago wrote:
Digby wrote: (I couldn't tell you anything about what the Guido Fawkes blog says, I wouldn't waste my time reading it, if you don't like it then maybe you too would do better not reading it)
All well and good except both the BBC and Guardian as well as other media have used it as the basis for leading stories.

Our whole press is a cesspit of misinformation, and until you realise that, you will continue to be duped into your misinformed views.
What I'd expect of a person of moral values who wanted a more socialist approach is to say those values are so important to me it's important they be set forth by a person of integrity. Whereas it rather feels you're making the same mistake as Corbyn which is to ignore the truth in front of you in the name of the greater good. All hail the Glorious Leader™ and all that jazz

You get a vote and I have to respect that, but that's as far as it goes if you're going to refuse to see the wood for the trees and claim a lacking of journalistic integrity, which is a pathetic attempt to cover off the story rather than address the serious problems in behvaiour prevalent in many of those now directing the Labour Party. I'd also add as with Trump my concern isn't just what's happening now, it's what comes next when such sexism and racism is seen by so many as the norm or at least the norm to overlook
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by fivepointer »

Momentum, key Corbyn allies, have said this -

“Accusations of antisemitism should not and cannot be dismissed simply as rightwing smears nor as the result of conspiracies.

“Current examples of antisemitism within the Labour party are not only a problem of a few, extreme ‘bad apples’, but also of unconscious bias, which manifests itself in varied, nuanced and subtle ways and is more widespread in the Labour party than many of us had understood even a few months ago.”

When his close supporters eventually call this out, as have many others across the political spectrum (ie not all right wing MSM), then i think its far to say that Labour has a very real problem on its hands.
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by rowan »

A poignant article on the reality of Palestinian attempts at peaceful resistance.

If you want to know how Apartheid lasted so long after the Sharpesville Massacre, just observe the indifference of the West today:

For decades Zionists have blamed the Palestinians for Israel's ongoing colonial project. "If only the Palestinians had a Mahatma Gandhi," many Israeli liberals have exclaimed, "then the occupation would end."

But if one truly wished to find Palestinian Mahatma Gandhis all one needed to do is look at the images of protesters on Friday night's news broadcasts. An estimated 30,000 Palestinians joined the nonviolent March of Return, which aimed to set up a few camps several hundred meters from the militarised fence surrounding the Gaza Strip. Their goal was to protest their incarceration in the world's largest open-air prison as well as the massive confiscation of their ancestral land - after all, 70 percent of Gaza's population are 1948 refugees whose families had owned land in what became Israel.

As Gaza's residents marched towards the militarised fence, I sat with my family, reciting the Haggadah for the Passover holiday, which tells us that "In every generation, it is one's duty to regard oneself as though he or she personally had gone out of Egypt". In other words, while the soldiers shot live bullets at the peaceful demonstrators, these soldiers' parents were being asked to imagine what it means to live in Gaza and what it would take to liberate oneself from such captivity. And as my family went on to sing, "No more shall they in bondage toil, let my people go," news sites reported that the number of Palestinians killed had reached 17, while several hundred had been wounded.

The accusation that Palestinians have failed to adopt non-violent methods of resistance, and therefore share responsibility for Israel's ongoing subjugation and dispossession, not only completely disavows the vast asymmetry in power relations between the coloniser and colonised, but, just as importantly, fails to consider the political history of anticolonial struggles, not least the Palestinian one itself. Indeed, it completely ignores the fact that Israel's colonial project has been upheld through attritional, protracted and widespread violence, and, despite what certain Western media outlets might present, the Palestinians have developed a robust and long-standing tradition of non-violent resistance. Moreover, the demand to adopt a non-violent ideology completely elides the history of other liberation struggles: from Algiers to Vietnam and all the way back to South Africa.


https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opini ... 21153.html
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Zhivago »

Digby wrote:
Zhivago wrote:
Digby wrote: (I couldn't tell you anything about what the Guido Fawkes blog says, I wouldn't waste my time reading it, if you don't like it then maybe you too would do better not reading it)
All well and good except both the BBC and Guardian as well as other media have used it as the basis for leading stories.

Our whole press is a cesspit of misinformation, and until you realise that, you will continue to be duped into your misinformed views.
What I'd expect of a person of moral values who wanted a more socialist approach is to say those values are so important to me it's important they be set forth by a person of integrity. Whereas it rather feels you're making the same mistake as Corbyn which is to ignore the truthin front of you in the name of the greater good. All hail the Glorious Leader™ and all that jazz

You get a vote and I have to respect that, but that's as far as it goes if you're going to refuse to see the wood for the trees and claim a lacking of journalistic integrity, which is a pathetic attempt to cover off the story rather than address the serious problems in behvaiour prevalent in many of those now directing the Labour Party. I'd also add as with Trump my concern isn't just what's happening now, it's what comes next when such sexism and racism is seen by so many as the norm or at least the norm to overlook
I'm not ignoring the truth, I'm saying that the truth is being used out of context as the basis for a propaganda campaign by political opponents.

I understand that you aren't really au fait with subtlety and nuance, but that is very different to claiming it's all smears and lies.

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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Banquo »

Zhivago wrote:
Digby wrote:
Zhivago wrote:
And the rest is just nonsense too

Even Momentum are now saying there's a problem, and it should be a warning for everyone that if you're still acting in blind support when even Momentum have noticed something's up you really have charged off well beyond the pale
I never said there's not a problem, I actually stated earlier that there is one. But what I'm saying differently to you is that the media narrative is using this problem out of context to attack Corbyn.

Some facts:
a) there is anti-semitic views held among all parties according to survey data.
b) in Labour the proportion of those agreeing with anti-semitic tropes is less than Tories.
c) this proportion has decreased under Corbyn.


The narrative being pushed suggests the opposite to those key facts.

It has become ridiculous, with political opponents such as Guido Fawkes whose blog is massively racist, jumping on the bandwagon of the anti-semitism narrative.

If you can't see this, then you are blind to the propaganda which is a constant and total force in our society.
You seem keen on facts, and these are presented as facts. I'm genuinely interested on how this data was obtained?
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Digby »

Zhivago wrote:
Digby wrote:
Zhivago wrote:
All well and good except both the BBC and Guardian as well as other media have used it as the basis for leading stories.

Our whole press is a cesspit of misinformation, and until you realise that, you will continue to be duped into your misinformed views.
What I'd expect of a person of moral values who wanted a more socialist approach is to say those values are so important to me it's important they be set forth by a person of integrity. Whereas it rather feels you're making the same mistake as Corbyn which is to ignore the truthin front of you in the name of the greater good. All hail the Glorious Leader™ and all that jazz

You get a vote and I have to respect that, but that's as far as it goes if you're going to refuse to see the wood for the trees and claim a lacking of journalistic integrity, which is a pathetic attempt to cover off the story rather than address the serious problems in behvaiour prevalent in many of those now directing the Labour Party. I'd also add as with Trump my concern isn't just what's happening now, it's what comes next when such sexism and racism is seen by so many as the norm or at least the norm to overlook
I'm not ignoring the truth, I'm saying that the truth is being used out of context as the basis for a propaganda campaign by political opponents.

I understand that you aren't really au fait with subtlety and nuance, but that is very different to claiming it's all smears and lies.

And we have merely another deflection.

If there are other big name politicians aping the sexism and racism they too should be called out too, but for the criticism of the Dear Leader™ to continue based on his (lack of) actions seems entirely warranted. There might be some groups attacking Corbyn both inside and outside Labour doing so as they don't like Corbyn, but in this area he's left himself so open to attack for me that's not the area of interest.
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Zhivago »

Banquo wrote:
Zhivago wrote:
Digby wrote:

Even Momentum are now saying there's a problem, and it should be a warning for everyone that if you're still acting in blind support when even Momentum have noticed something's up you really have charged off well beyond the pale
I never said there's not a problem, I actually stated earlier that there is one. But what I'm saying differently to you is that the media narrative is using this problem out of context to attack Corbyn.

Some facts:
a) there is anti-semitic views held among all parties according to survey data.
b) in Labour the proportion of those agreeing with anti-semitic tropes is less than Tories.
c) this proportion has decreased under Corbyn.


The narrative being pushed suggests the opposite to those key facts.

It has become ridiculous, with political opponents such as Guido Fawkes whose blog is massively racist, jumping on the bandwagon of the anti-semitism narrative.

If you can't see this, then you are blind to the propaganda which is a constant and total force in our society.
You seem keen on facts, and these are presented as facts. I'm genuinely interested on how this data was obtained?
Yougov polls for Campaign Against Antisemitism's 2017 barometer report.

in the report regarding my fact b, based on 32% agreed with antisemitic statements from Labour, 40% from Tories.

Fact c - compared with 2015 dataset.

2015:
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... File_W.pdf

2017:
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... inions.pdf

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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Banquo »

Zhivago wrote:
Banquo wrote:
Zhivago wrote:
I never said there's not a problem, I actually stated earlier that there is one. But what I'm saying differently to you is that the media narrative is using this problem out of context to attack Corbyn.

Some facts:
a) there is anti-semitic views held among all parties according to survey data.
b) in Labour the proportion of those agreeing with anti-semitic tropes is less than Tories.
c) this proportion has decreased under Corbyn.


The narrative being pushed suggests the opposite to those key facts.

It has become ridiculous, with political opponents such as Guido Fawkes whose blog is massively racist, jumping on the bandwagon of the anti-semitism narrative.

If you can't see this, then you are blind to the propaganda which is a constant and total force in our society.
You seem keen on facts, and these are presented as facts. I'm genuinely interested on how this data was obtained?
Yougov polls for Campaign Against Antisemitism's 2017 barometer report.

in the report regarding my fact b, based on 32% agreed with antisemitic statements from Labour, 40% from Tories.

Fact c - compared with 2015 dataset.

2015:
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... File_W.pdf

2017:
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/c ... inions.pdf
Yep thanks, found them separately.
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Digby »

Myself I definitely chase money, I've certainly lost loyalty to Britain as a consequence of Brexit, I think I'm better than other British people (or just better than other people tbh), and though it's not on the survey I'm also no fan of an awful lot of what Israel does. None of which makes me anti-Semitic, though it may indicate I'm a bit of a git, and if it doesn't it probably should.
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Digby »

Banquo wrote: Yep thanks, found them separately.

I had two thoughts about the surveys, 'tis just possible 2018 mayn't show another decline for Labour, and it's perhaps best looking at the stats to support the Lib Dems (but then one gazes over to the Lib Dems doing not a lot under Cable and wonders could that possibly make sense?)
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Zhivago »

Digby wrote:Myself I definitely chase money, I've certainly lost loyalty to Britain as a consequence of Brexit, I think I'm better than other British people (or just better than other people tbh), and though it's not on the survey I'm also no fan of an awful lot of what Israel does. None of which makes me anti-Semitic, though it may indicate I'm a bit of a git, and if it doesn't it probably should.

Um... Sounds like you don't get it, the survey asks people if they agree with those statements regarding Jews... i.e. Do Jews chase money... Etc

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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Digby »

Zhivago wrote:
Digby wrote:Myself I definitely chase money, I've certainly lost loyalty to Britain as a consequence of Brexit, I think I'm better than other British people (or just better than other people tbh), and though it's not on the survey I'm also no fan of an awful lot of what Israel does. None of which makes me anti-Semitic, though it may indicate I'm a bit of a git, and if it doesn't it probably should.

Um... Sounds like you don't get it, the survey asks people if they agree with those statements regarding Jews... i.e. Do Jews chase money... Etc
I've no idea what we're supposed to infer from such a simple set of questions addressed to such a small sample size. Though I did like the stat they had that had almost 50% of responders saying hating Israel and questioning its right to exist isn't anti-semitic.
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Zhivago
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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Zhivago »

Digby wrote:
Zhivago wrote:
Digby wrote:Myself I definitely chase money, I've certainly lost loyalty to Britain as a consequence of Brexit, I think I'm better than other British people (or just better than other people tbh), and though it's not on the survey I'm also no fan of an awful lot of what Israel does. None of which makes me anti-Semitic, though it may indicate I'm a bit of a git, and if it doesn't it probably should.

Um... Sounds like you don't get it, the survey asks people if they agree with those statements regarding Jews... i.e. Do Jews chase money... Etc
I've no idea what we're supposed to infer from such a simple set of questions addressed to such a small sample size. Though I did like the stat they had that had almost 50% of responders saying hating Israel and questioning its right to exist isn't anti-semitic.
Well if making inferences from data isn't your thing, perhaps you should just refrain from a debate where you cannot grasp the facts.

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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by Zhivago »

We can either base our views on a biased media narrative, or on the best objective facts available. Everyone should decide which is their basis, but for me I'll choose the latter every time.

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Re: Anti-Zionism

Post by fivepointer »

My understanding is that the YouGov surveys are based on interactions with the general population.

Labours a/s issue is one centred around its membership of course, which I dont think has been polled separately.
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