FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:42 pm
What's also worth noting that if Itoje is on between £400k and £450k on his new deal then once you add on the £200k he'd get from 10 internationals it's £600k to £650k. Inconvenience of moving he's going to be telling his agent he'll want minimum £700k a season that's 800k in Euros, still less than he earns now. He's going to be one of the highest paid players in the world irrelevant of what league. How many clubs have the spare cap to fit in that kind of cost?
You presume Racing will be eying up a flyhalf next summer. Montpellier are a basket case he'd be mad to go there. Toulouse don't tend to go in for many big signings as they use their budget to keep what they have together, La Rochelle are similar. So Toulon maybe. Japan might be an option.
No matter how you analyse it, for any player to be offered half his current salary by his employer is quite an insulting smack in the chops,especially one of Itoje's quality.
It's true. You wouldn't blame him for telling his agent to go out and see what teams elsewhere are offering.
The Ruck suggesting that Bristol might try and put a bit together. It's The Ruck though so there's a 30/70 chance that's true.
Bristol or Bath are the traditional names to chuck around for this kind of thing, given their owners, but it'd be a a heck of a conjuring trick for either of them to fit him in, given that they couldn't name him marquee because of the rules over intra-Premiership transfers.
FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:42 pm
What's also worth noting that if Itoje is on between £400k and £450k on his new deal then once you add on the £200k he'd get from 10 internationals it's £600k to £650k. Inconvenience of moving he's going to be telling his agent he'll want minimum £700k a season that's 800k in Euros, still less than he earns now. He's going to be one of the highest paid players in the world irrelevant of what league. How many clubs have the spare cap to fit in that kind of cost?
You presume Racing will be eying up a flyhalf next summer. Montpellier are a basket case he'd be mad to go there. Toulouse don't tend to go in for many big signings as they use their budget to keep what they have together, La Rochelle are similar. So Toulon maybe. Japan might be an option.
No matter how you analyse it, for any player to be offered half his current salary by his employer is quite an insulting smack in the chops,especially one of Itoje's quality.
Pah! I would offer Alex Goode a few quid and use of a company car to take over the 10 shirt, and then get shot of Farrell
Puja wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:06 am
Bristol or Bath are the traditional names to chuck around for this kind of thing, given their owners, but it'd be a a heck of a conjuring trick for either of them to fit him in, given that they couldn't name him marquee because of the rules over intra-Premiership transfers.
Puja
He would be a massive upgrade on lock Bris have! Potentially Genge to marquee, Sinckler out the door and raising salary cap could make it work...
FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:42 pm
What's also worth noting that if Itoje is on between £400k and £450k on his new deal then once you add on the £200k he'd get from 10 internationals it's £600k to £650k. Inconvenience of moving he's going to be telling his agent he'll want minimum £700k a season that's 800k in Euros, still less than he earns now. He's going to be one of the highest paid players in the world irrelevant of what league. How many clubs have the spare cap to fit in that kind of cost?
You presume Racing will be eying up a flyhalf next summer. Montpellier are a basket case he'd be mad to go there. Toulouse don't tend to go in for many big signings as they use their budget to keep what they have together, La Rochelle are similar. So Toulon maybe. Japan might be an option.
No matter how you analyse it, for any player to be offered half his current salary by his employer is quite an insulting smack in the chops,especially one of Itoje's quality.
Pah! I would offer Alex Goode a few quid and use of a company car to take over the 10 shirt, and then get shot of Farrell
Alex Goode will be 36 by the end of the season. Hell of a risk to go into the next campaign with a veteran as your lead flyhalf and not great depth to back up.
francoisfou wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:53 am
Richard Cockerill's days as head coach of Montpellier may be numbered.
Montpellier, who were Top14 champions in 2022, won their first match of this season but have lost the last six and are sitting two points adrift at the bottom of the table.
Bernard Laporte, who was handed a two-year suspended prison sentence for corruption in December 2022, has been appointed Director of Rugby by Montpellier President Mohed Altrad, who simultaneously was given an 18-month suspended sentence in the same affair of an allegedly crooked shirt sponsor deal for the French XV!
Altrad has called a club meeting for this afternoon, presumably to confirm the appointment of Laporte, and maybe the departure of Cockerill?
For the record, there are three Brits in the squad, Harry Williams, Sam Simmonds and Elliot Stooke, who'll is due to rejoin Bath in the near future.
He has indeed been sacked and to be replaced by Patrice Collazo, who's just been sacked by Brive!
Rumours are abound that Cockerill will shortly be in charge of the Georgia XV on a two-year deal.
Rumours firming up for Stooke to Bath, replacing FLW.
From the sounds of things, we tried to get him over the summer, but he had his RWC cover contract with Montpellier, so we kept FLW as our "RWC cover" until he arrives.
Of course it's possible it was the other way around, and we signed up FLW through November, and couldn't afford Stooke for the full year, so he part-extended at Montpellier, but that sounds less likely.
He's a good Prem level player. Considering the injuries Bath have and the fact we're about to hit winter when it's ideal to have some more physicality in the second row his arrival is timely.
Shame Richards hasn't been trusted by van Graan to get more Prem experience, I think he'd be a better long term bet.
There was something during pre-season about JvG name-checking him as a real leader and huge potential, and hoping that he'd put last season's injury woes (hamstring & ankle IIRC) behind him.
He captained Bath against the Champ teams in the PRC.
I agree though, I'd have liked to have seen more of him since the season started, but I don't know if he's picked something else up.
No matter how you analyse it, for any player to be offered half his current salary by his employer is quite an insulting smack in the chops,especially one of Itoje's quality.
Pah! I would offer Alex Goode a few quid and use of a company car to take over the 10 shirt, and then get shot of Farrell
Alex Goode will be 36 by the end of the season. Hell of a risk to go into the next campaign with a veteran as your lead flyhalf and not great depth to back up.
Lozowski has played quote a bit at 10 (though not so recently) and is a tidy footballer. He's 30 now so has a few seasons left. Always thought he was a tad under-rated.
Pah! I would offer Alex Goode a few quid and use of a company car to take over the 10 shirt, and then get shot of Farrell
Alex Goode will be 36 by the end of the season. Hell of a risk to go into the next campaign with a veteran as your lead flyhalf and not great depth to back up.
Lozowski has played quote a bit at 10 (though not so recently) and is a tidy footballer. He's 30 now so has a few seasons left. Always thought he was a tad under-rated.
I don't know you'd rely on him as an everyday 10 though - good cover in an emergency, but not the degree of reliability that you'd want in a first choice Prem 10.
Alex Goode will be 36 by the end of the season. Hell of a risk to go into the next campaign with a veteran as your lead flyhalf and not great depth to back up.
Lozowski has played quote a bit at 10 (though not so recently) and is a tidy footballer. He's 30 now so has a few seasons left. Always thought he was a tad under-rated.
I don't know you'd rely on him as an everyday 10 though - good cover in an emergency, but not the degree of reliability that you'd want in a first choice Prem 10.
Puja
Or second choice for that matter. Going into a campaign with Goode, Lozowski and Vunipola as your three options at 10 is pretty weak. I'm a little surprised Sarries weren't fishing around for a young 10 in the mess that fell out of the clubs going under to be honest.
Spiffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:33 pm
Lozowski has played quote a bit at 10 (though not so recently) and is a tidy footballer. He's 30 now so has a few seasons left. Always thought he was a tad under-rated.
I don't know you'd rely on him as an everyday 10 though - good cover in an emergency, but not the degree of reliability that you'd want in a first choice Prem 10.
Puja
Or second choice for that matter. Going into a campaign with Goode, Lozowski and Vunipola as your three options at 10 is pretty weak. I'm a little surprised Sarries weren't fishing around for a young 10 in the mess that fell out of the clubs going under to be honest.
I don't know you'd rely on him as an everyday 10 though - good cover in an emergency, but not the degree of reliability that you'd want in a first choice Prem 10.
Puja
Or second choice for that matter. Going into a campaign with Goode, Lozowski and Vunipola as your three options at 10 is pretty weak. I'm a little surprised Sarries weren't fishing around for a young 10 in the mess that fell out of the clubs going under to be honest.
They could always fall back on Farrell tho
The conversation stemmed from the suggestion that the offer Itoje the marquee spot and promote Goode to 10 if Farrell doesn't accept the half price wage offer.
Or second choice for that matter. Going into a campaign with Goode, Lozowski and Vunipola as your three options at 10 is pretty weak. I'm a little surprised Sarries weren't fishing around for a young 10 in the mess that fell out of the clubs going under to be honest.
They could always fall back on Farrell tho
The conversation stemmed from the suggestion that the offer Itoje the marquee spot and promote Goode to 10 if Farrell doesn't accept the half price wage offer.
great, so that's for next season right? So your second sentence is a hypothetical?
Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 5:15 pm
They could always fall back on Farrell tho
The conversation stemmed from the suggestion that the offer Itoje the marquee spot and promote Goode to 10 if Farrell doesn't accept the half price wage offer.
great, so that's for next season right? So your second sentence is a hypothetical?
The conversation stemmed from the suggestion that the offer Itoje the marquee spot and promote Goode to 10 if Farrell doesn't accept the half price wage offer.
great, so that's for next season right? So your second sentence is a hypothetical?
The whole thing was a hypothetical conversation.
Forgive me....the 'is' confused me -Going into a campaign with Goode, Lozowski and Vunipola as your three options at 10 is pretty weak-. My bad.
The next player heading for France is Lewis Ludlum who, according to today's Telegraph, will sign for Toulon in the summer.
More will follow as sure as night follows day which should force the RFU to adapt their England XV eligibility regulations.
Here's the article:
Lewis Ludlam to join Toulon as England's talent drain to France continues
Value and length of offer from the Top 14 side were said to be vital in the decision, as is continued confusion over hybrid contracts
By
Daniel Schofield,
DEPUTY RUGBY UNION CORRESPONDENT
27 November 2023 • 8:54pm
Northampton back-row Lewis Ludlam will become the latest England international to head for France after agreeing terms to join Top 14 side Toulon next summer.
Ludlam has played in the last two World Cups for England and was an ever-present in Steve Borthwick’s first Six Nations campaign in charge. The 27-year-old is highly prized for his versatility and combativeness but was not assured of receiving one of the hybrid contracts set to be introduced next year by the Rugby Football Union. While Northampton were desperate to keep their club captain, Toulon not only offered high wages but a longer-term contract, which was thought to be crucial in Ludlam’s decision.
Five members of England’s 31-man World Cup squad are now playing or heading in France. Ludlam will join David Ribbans, the second row, at Toulon on the Cote D’Azur while centre Joe Marchant has joined Stade Francais. Flanker Jack Willis has signed a multi-year deal at Toulouse and Henry Arundell who is enjoying a sensational start at new club Racing 92.
Under the RFU’s rules, all players based outside of England are ineligible for selection, although Arundell is expected to be granted an exemption for next year’s Six Nations after joining Racing following London Irish’s demise, as Willis was this year. Ludlam will also be available for selection for the remainder of the season, although he suffered an ankle injury in Northampton’s 36-33 victory against Harlequins on Friday night and left Franklin’s Gardens in a protective boot. Borthwick’s back-row options have already diminished since Courtney Lawes’ retirement, while Tom Curry suffered a season-ending hip injury and Ben Earl is out for two months.
Even with the Premiership salary cap set to increase next season, English clubs cannot match the spending power of the Top 14. The introduction of hybrid contracts from next year, where an estimated 25 England players would be guaranteed the security of a fixed sum for the year rather than relying on match fees, was supposed to stem that flow of talent over the Channel.
However, despite Telegraph Sport first reporting that the hybrid contract model had been agreed in principle between the Rugby Football Union and Premiership Rugby at the start of October, very little detail has been shared with representatives of players whose contracts are expiring at the end of the season.
England players whose deals are due for renewal are thought to include Maro Itoje, Jamie George, Kyle Sinckler, Elliot Daly and Henry Slade. While second row Itoje would be guaranteed a hybrid contract in the new system, which would give Borthwick more control over playing and training load, other players feel like they are being left in limbo. Lucrative contract offers from French clubs do not remain on the table indefinitely and it is not yet clear what Borthwick’s squad will look like at the start of a new World Cup cycle.
Speaking at the end of the World Cup, George said of the hybrid contracts: “We just need a bit more clarity around it, obviously there’s a lot of whispers around it. I think this possibly could be a great thing for English rugby but I think it has to be done in the right way.”
As much as Ludlam’s departure may hurt Borthwick, his loss will be felt far more acutely by Northampton. As an academy product who has gone on to make more than 100 appearances for the club, Ludlam embodies much the heart and soul of the team that director of rugby Phil Dowson is trying to create at Franklin’s Gardens. “Lewis Ludlam, we love him and want to try and keep him, but we are aware that there’s other clubs who see that quality and want to take him,” Dowson said earlier this month.
I imagine we’ve debated this one enough that pretty much everyone has already made their minds up one way or the other, but I don’t see that any of that (except for the possibility of Itoje leaving) “should get the RFU to adapt their England selection regulations”.
The central contract situation is obviously the big one, but this article makes out like George, Daly etc have been hard done by in some fashion. If they want to go to France that’s absolutely fine by me. I don’t mean that with any bitterness. They’ve contributed a lot but are 30+ and we’ll need to move on sooner or later.
Sinkler isn’t consistently starting because he hasn’t been playing well. Marchant, Willis and Arundell’s moves are all due to fairly specific reasons. It’s a shame to lose Ludlam, and he’s been underutilised some would say, but he is not a player worth changing policies over.
How many caps has he even got? What would a Giteau-style cap threshold even be to include him?
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:44 am
I imagine we’ve debated this one enough that pretty much everyone has already made their minds up one way or the other, but I don’t see that any of that (except for the possibility of Itoje leaving) “should get the RFU to adapt their England selection regulations”.
The central contract situation is obviously the big one, but this article makes out like George, Daly etc have been hard done by in some fashion. If they want to go to France that’s absolutely fine by me. I don’t mean that with any bitterness. They’ve contributed a lot but are 30+ and we’ll need to move on sooner or later.
Sinkler isn’t consistently starting because he hasn’t been playing well. Marchant, Willis and Arundell’s moves are all due to fairly specific reasons. It’s a shame to lose Ludlam, and he’s been underutilised some would say, but he is not a player worth changing policies over.
How many caps has he even got? What would a Giteau-style cap threshold even be to include him?
Maybe, a rule banning all 30+ players anywhere but allowing under 25s in France?????
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:44 am
I imagine we’ve debated this one enough that pretty much everyone has already made their minds up one way or the other, but I don’t see that any of that (except for the possibility of Itoje leaving) “should get the RFU to adapt their England selection regulations”.
The central contract situation is obviously the big one, but this article makes out like George, Daly etc have been hard done by in some fashion. If they want to go to France that’s absolutely fine by me. I don’t mean that with any bitterness. They’ve contributed a lot but are 30+ and we’ll need to move on sooner or later.
Sinkler isn’t consistently starting because he hasn’t been playing well. Marchant, Willis and Arundell’s moves are all due to fairly specific reasons. It’s a shame to lose Ludlam, and he’s been underutilised some would say, but he is not a player worth changing policies over.
How many caps has he even got? What would a Giteau-style cap threshold even be to include him?
Agreed on all counts. If anything, Ludlam leaving should mean the RFU double down, for the sake of saving English professional rugby, rather than allow the floodgates to open.
Also, while I would very much prefer Ludlam to stay in England, he's hardly the big name that breaks the policy. He's a good player, but I don't think he's in anyone's first choice England XV.
-Going into a campaign with Goode, Lozowski and Vunipola as your three options at 10 is pretty weak-. My bad.
