Argentina tour

[Danno]

Poor fucker had Farrell join him at Racing as well

[Banquo]

He only touched the ball five time, the lazy fecker.

Should have been chasing kicks

Which was the one where Farrell screamed at him to chase the kicks?

He scored five tries against Chile in a rout but against Wales and Argentina in the third place playoff didn't impress. Now I'd be willing to excuse a lot given he had the misfortune to have Farrell at 10 but hugging the touchline and not chasing kicks didn't really impress me a great deal at the time.

He's not set the world alight at Racing, hopefully he kicks on at Bath but I don't see the need to rush him back into the squad.

He's fallen a long way since scoring a worldie with his first touch of the ball in intl rugby...

The important bit is 'worldie'

[FKAS]

Poor fucker had Farrell join him at Racing as well

and Dan Lancaster.

I think he'll probably flourish at Bath next season but a full pre season with his new side is probably more valuable than touring this summer.

[Banquo]

Poor fucker had Farrell join him at Racing as well

and Dan Lancaster.

I think he'll probably flourish at Bath next season but a full pre season with his new side is probably more valuable than touring this summer.

still only 22, and he does have the running ability to be a top intl player imo.

[FKAS]

Poor fucker had Farrell join him at Racing as well

and Dan Lancaster.

I think he'll probably flourish at Bath next season but a full pre season with his new side is probably more valuable than touring this summer.

still only 22, and he does have the running ability to be a top intl player imo.

I think he definitely could be. He's just not at the minute.

[Banquo]

and Dan Lancaster.

I think he'll probably flourish at Bath next season but a full pre season with his new side is probably more valuable than touring this summer.

still only 22, and he does have the running ability to be a top intl player imo.

I think he definitely could be. He's just not at the minute.

well clearly, as he can't be selected.

[FKAS]

still only 22, and he does have the running ability to be a top intl player imo.

I think he definitely could be. He's just not at the minute.

well clearly, as he can't be selected.

As soon as he signed to return to the Prem for next season he could be selected I believe.

[Mikey Brown]

He only touched the ball five time, the lazy fecker.

Should have been chasing kicks

Which was the one where Farrell screamed at him to chase the kicks?

He scored five tries against Chile in a rout but against Wales and Argentina in the third place playoff didn't impress. Now I'd be willing to excuse a lot given he had the misfortune to have Farrell at 10 but hugging the touchline and not chasing kicks didn't really impress me a great deal at the time.

He's not set the world alight at Racing, hopefully he kicks on at Bath but I don't see the need to rush him back into the squad.

Yep. Fantastic finisher, fantastic athlete, a lot of potential but I still haven’t seen much beyond the wonder try vs Toulouse and that lovely finish vs Aus.

Wouldn’t surprise me if all the pieces fall in place once he’s at Bath though. I just want to see him fight for the spot like everyone else.

[Danno]

[you-tube][/you-tube]

I mean you can't refer to it without showing it

[Banquo]

I think he definitely could be. He's just not at the minute.

well clearly, as he can't be selected.

As soon as he signed to return to the Prem for next season he could be selected I believe.

Not according to the PGP agreement....Summer is what is being stated.

[Banquo]

Should have been chasing kicks

Which was the one where Farrell screamed at him to chase the kicks?

He scored five tries against Chile in a rout but against Wales and Argentina in the third place playoff didn't impress. Now I'd be willing to excuse a lot given he had the misfortune to have Farrell at 10 but hugging the touchline and not chasing kicks didn't really impress me a great deal at the time.

He's not set the world alight at Racing, hopefully he kicks on at Bath but I don't see the need to rush him back into the squad.

Yep. Fantastic finisher, fantastic athlete, a lot of potential but I still haven’t seen much beyond the wonder try vs Toulouse and that lovely finish vs Aus.

Wouldn’t surprise me if all the pieces fall in place once he’s at Bath though. I just want to see him fight for the spot like everyone else.

Have you been watching the Racing matches? I've not wanted to pay for those as well. Plus they've been a bit shyte

[Mikey Brown]

Which was the one where Farrell screamed at him to chase the kicks?

He scored five tries against Chile in a rout but against Wales and Argentina in the third place playoff didn't impress. Now I'd be willing to excuse a lot given he had the misfortune to have Farrell at 10 but hugging the touchline and not chasing kicks didn't really impress me a great deal at the time.

He's not set the world alight at Racing, hopefully he kicks on at Bath but I don't see the need to rush him back into the squad.

Yep. Fantastic finisher, fantastic athlete, a lot of potential but I still haven’t seen much beyond the wonder try vs Toulouse and that lovely finish vs Aus.

Wouldn’t surprise me if all the pieces fall in place once he’s at Bath though. I just want to see him fight for the spot like everyone else.

Have you been watching the Racing matches? I've not wanted to pay for those as well. Plus they've been a bit shyte

That should have been the caveat, I’ve seen a couple but not been actively following them at all. For all I know he’s been tearing it up at Racing but that’s certainly not the impression I get.

[Mellsblue]

That was going to be my question: how much have people actually seen to say he’s had a poor season? There’s also the point that being a wing in a shoite team is really hard work. See Radwan at Newcastle vs Radwan at Leicester…

[jngf]

Croft's best international performances came when he was used as a conventional flanker with the Lions. He suffered from the same thing as Peter Crouch in football - football anagers saw a 6ft7 striker and put the ball to him in the air, when his main skills were with his feet, and rugby managers looked at a flanker with incredible pace and decided he should sit in the 13 channel all the time, when his main skills were traditional forwards ones.

Puja

I have to say I really don’t think this was the case - yes he was good in the lineout and could use his pace to make some great cover tackles but I would have had Haskell or Robshaw or Moody or Wordsley in the 6 shirt every time over Croft, simply on grounds of pure physicality and power.Croft was used by us like Pierre Spies was used by the boks - a round peg in a square hole.

I will generally give you a lot of latitude on your opinions - I may not agree with you oftimes, but it's interesting to hear a different perspective. On this occasion however, you are just factually incorrect. The situation was not as you remember it.

Puja

Let’s frame it another way, if you’re an oppo test team who you going to fear more at 6 Wordsley, Haskell, Moody, Robshaw or Croft? My memory serves that Croft wasn’t used much in his second Lions call up and Robshaw was unlucky to lose out to him. I posit viewing Croft as any sort of physical,dominant enforcer type forward is your rose tinted specs playing tricks on you rather my limited memory

[Puja]

I have to say I really don’t think this was the case - yes he was good in the lineout and could use his pace to make some great cover tackles but I would have had Haskell or Robshaw or Moody or Wordsley in the 6 shirt every time over Croft, simply on grounds of pure physicality and power.Croft was used by us like Pierre Spies was used by the boks - a round peg in a square hole.

I will generally give you a lot of latitude on your opinions - I may not agree with you oftimes, but it's interesting to hear a different perspective. On this occasion however, you are just factually incorrect. The situation was not as you remember it.

Puja

Let’s frame it another way, if you’re an oppo test team who you going to fear more at 6 Wordsley, Haskell, Moody, Robshaw or Croft? My memory serves that Croft wasn’t used much in his second Lions call up and Robshaw was unlucky to lose out to him. I posit viewing Croft as any sort of physical,dominant enforcer type forward is your rose tinted specs playing tricks on you rather my limited memory

Croft, when used as an actual flanker rather than a 3rd centre. In that scenario, Moody would be the only one of those remotely still in the frame.

Puja

[FKAS]

I have to say I really don’t think this was the case - yes he was good in the lineout and could use his pace to make some great cover tackles but I would have had Haskell or Robshaw or Moody or Wordsley in the 6 shirt every time over Croft, simply on grounds of pure physicality and power.Croft was used by us like Pierre Spies was used by the boks - a round peg in a square hole.

I will generally give you a lot of latitude on your opinions - I may not agree with you oftimes, but it's interesting to hear a different perspective. On this occasion however, you are just factually incorrect. The situation was not as you remember it.

Puja

Let’s frame it another way, if you’re an oppo test team who you going to fear more at 6 Wordsley, Haskell, Moody, Robshaw or Croft? My memory serves that Croft wasn’t used much in his second Lions call up and Robshaw was unlucky to lose out to him. I posit viewing Croft as any sort of physical,dominant enforcer type forward is your rose tinted specs playing tricks on you rather my limited memory

Croft started the first test and came off the bench in the second in Australia. Having started the first and second then come off the bench in the third test over in SA the tour previously.

Robshaw wasn't going to get a look in as he was too similar but not as good as Warburton. Croft offered a point of difference around the pitch as well as a third lineout option/first choice jumper which meant you could go in with three top level jumpers or opt for bigger units and use Croft as you go to jumper. He was so good at getting off the ground you only needed one good lifter to get Croft airborne.

[Mikey Brown]

So…

6. Croft
7. Curry
8. Willis

It’s got a nice balance to it?

[Danno]

Yeah, get on the blower to Croft pronto

[jngf]

I will generally give you a lot of latitude on your opinions - I may not agree with you oftimes, but it's interesting to hear a different perspective. On this occasion however, you are just factually incorrect. The situation was not as you remember it.

Puja

Let’s frame it another way, if you’re an oppo test team who you going to fear more at 6 Wordsley, Haskell, Moody, Robshaw or Croft? My memory serves that Croft wasn’t used much in his second Lions call up and Robshaw was unlucky to lose out to him. I posit viewing Croft as any sort of physical,dominant enforcer type forward is your rose tinted specs playing tricks on you rather my limited memory

Croft, when used as an actual flanker rather than a 3rd centre. In that scenario, Moody would be the only one of those remotely still in the frame.

Puja

Just have to flat disagree with you there Puja though I can see you’re sincere in your opinion. Wordsley and Haskell much more powerful than Croft - would say Robshaw and Moody had the edge over Croft in terms of physicality though by a smaller margin than the former two. Wood ( who I’ve not previously mentioned) more equivalent to Croft in this context though I’d say Wood was more abrasive and work rate focussed. Neither could carry their way out of a wet paper bag

[jngf]

I will generally give you a lot of latitude on your opinions - I may not agree with you oftimes, but it's interesting to hear a different perspective. On this occasion however, you are just factually incorrect. The situation was not as you remember it.

Puja

Let’s frame it another way, if you’re an oppo test team who you going to fear more at 6 Wordsley, Haskell, Moody, Robshaw or Croft? My memory serves that Croft wasn’t used much in his second Lions call up and Robshaw was unlucky to lose out to him. I posit viewing Croft as any sort of physical,dominant enforcer type forward is your rose tinted specs playing tricks on you rather my limited memory

Croft started the first test and came off the bench in the second in Australia. Having started the first and second then come off the bench in the third test over in SA the tour previously.

Robshaw wasn't going to get a look in as he was too similar but not as good as Warburton. Croft offered a point of difference around the pitch as well as a third lineout option/first choice jumper which meant you could go in with three top level jumpers or opt for bigger units and use Croft as you go to jumper. He was so good at getting off the ground you only needed one good lifter to get Croft airborne.

I’d have honestly had no objections to England or Lions playing Croft as a winger whilst also using him in the lineout ( I don’t think laws of rugby preclude this?) but that would have required thinking out of the box.

[twitchy]

"Tom Croft on the wing"?

[Puja]

Right, I'd say that's the Tom Croft debate completed for now. Delightful throwback to the 2010s though that was, I'm making a modding decision that we're stopping using this thread for it and that, should people wish to continue, they can open a new thread.

Mod

[FKAS]

So should we bring this slightly back on track and guess bolters for the England squad selection?

[Which Tyler]

So should we bring this slightly back on track and guess bolters for the England squad selection?

Bulkiest backrows only

[Puja]

So should we bring this slightly back on track and guess bolters for the England squad selection?

I'm going to follow the TNT approach and describe anyone having a decent Prem game as a potential bolter.
O'Donogue for the Lions!

Puja