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Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:42 pm
by TheDasher
Having Tuilagi on the bench over Steward is a mistake I'd say, with Steward able to cover 15 and both wings... if a centre goes down, Daly, Freeman and at a push Furbank could step in. Very odd call.
For any mention of Guy Pepper - I'd say Pearson is ahead, can play 6 or 7, maybe even 8. Regardless, I understand the Roots decision, in what will be a physical game, it's fair to say he is an absolute monster to help counter some of the French monsters.
It's ok.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:59 pm
by Oakboy
To be fair, in the XV, there are more positives - Genge, Itoje, Martin, Chessum, Earl, Mitchell, Lawrence, Slade, Freeman, Furbank - than negatives - only Daly, really. The rest - George, Cole, Underhill, Ford - are OK for now.
Of the bench, the front row and Roots are OK. Marcus is the one spark. Dombrandt, Care and Tuilagi are questionable selections. All would drop the standard significantly if injuries brought them on in the early minutes.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:08 pm
by Mikey Brown
Has Furbank ever played wing at all? It doesn't sound right but I guess he'd be the emergency option with Slade at 15? That or we were so impressed with the look of Gibson-Park moving to wing (and a 38 year old replacement) that we fancied trying Mitchell out there.
It would be interesting to know how close Muir or Roebuck were to consideration. Murley hadn't really played enough this year to be in serious contention, but the way he spoke on a podcast the other day suggested he'd only been focussing on the summer tour and not expecting to break in to the 23. It's a shame none of those three could have got some time over the 6 nations but you feel Daly's experience/versatility/kicking is just too useful a crutch for Borthwick.
Incidentally, Banquo, that post above reminded me of that site where you can see how much any player has appeared in a particular position.
https://all.rugby/player/tommy-freeman
Winger : 49 times ( Right Wing 41%, Left Wing 26% )
Fullback : 17 times ( Fullback 23% )
Center : 7 times ( Outside Centre 10% )
ETA: Just realised I can answer my own question now. No, George Furbank has never played wing.
Fullback : 103 times ( Fullback 89% )
Fly-Half : 13 times ( Fly-Half 11% )
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:12 pm
by fivepointer
Perfectly sensible and rational selection.
SB wasnt going to do anything apart from where he had to.
Not thrilled by Tuilagi but its not a pick that is completely off the wall, though i'd worry if he had to play more than 20 odd minutes.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:12 pm
by Banquo
TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:42 pm
Having Tuilagi on the bench over Steward is a mistake I'd say, with Steward able to cover 15 and both wings... if a centre goes down, Daly, Freeman and at a push Furbank could step in. Very odd call.
For any mention of Guy Pepper - I'd say Pearson is ahead, can play 6 or 7, maybe even 8. Regardless, I understand the Roots decision, in what will be a physical game, it's fair to say he is an absolute monster to help counter some of the French monsters.
It's ok.
agreed, if a winger gets crocked.....no-one to cover. If a 15 gets crocked, probs slade to FB. The one position that is well covered is 13!
I'd have gone Pearson over Roots/Dombrandt.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:13 pm
by Banquo
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:08 pm
Has Furbank ever played wing at all? It doesn't sound right but I guess he'd be the emergency option with Slade at 15? That or we were so impressed with the look of Gibson-Park moving to wing (and a 38 year old replacement) that we fancied trying Mitchell out there.
It would be interesting to know how close Muir or Roebuck were to consideration. Murley hadn't really played enough this year to be in serious contention, but the way he spoke on a podcast the other day suggested he'd only been focussing on the summer tour and not expecting to break in to the 23. It's a shame none of those three could have got some time over the 6 nations but you feel Daly's experience/versatility/kicking is just too useful a crutch for Borthwick.
Incidentally, Banquo, that post above reminded me of that site where you can see how much any player has appeared in a particular position.
https://all.rugby/player/tommy-freeman
Winger : 49 times ( Right Wing 41%, Left Wing 26% )
Fullback : 17 times ( Fullback 23% )
Center : 7 times ( Outside Centre 10% )
ETA: Just realised I can answer my own question now. No, George Furbank has never played wing.
Fullback : 103 times ( Fullback 89% )
Fly-Half : 13 times ( Fly-Half 11% )
cool. Interesting that he's played less at 15 than left wing. Versatile lad.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:18 pm
by p/d
Roots an absolute monster? Is he really
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:22 pm
by fivepointer
p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:18 pm
Roots an absolute monster? Is he really
No. 6'2' and about 17 & half stone. All the French back rowers are much bigger.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:23 pm
by Banquo
p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:18 pm
Roots an absolute monster? Is he really
6ft 2in and 113 kg- quite dense in many ways.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:31 pm
by p/d
fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:22 pm
p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:18 pm
Roots an absolute monster? Is he really
No. 6'2' and about 17 & half stone. All the French back rowers are much bigger.
Really meant is he a monster - as in physically smashing people etc
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:33 pm
by Mellsblue
He’s a monster in the same way that Steward can cover both wings and Itoje can cover no8.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:35 pm
by Mellsblue
p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:31 pm
fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:22 pm
p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:18 pm
Roots an absolute monster? Is he really
No. 6'2' and about 17 & half stone. All the French back rowers are much bigger.
Really meant is he a monster - as in physically smashing people etc
Indeed he can. It’s known in the camp as the Roots manoeuvre.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:39 pm
by Banquo
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:35 pm
p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:31 pm
fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:22 pm
No. 6'2' and about 17 & half stone. All the French back rowers are much bigger.
Really meant is he a monster - as in physically smashing people etc
Indeed he can. It’s known in the camp as the Roots manoeuvre.
You'll get a rap over the knuckles from Mikey for that
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:48 pm
by TheDasher
As I wrote it I wondered how long it would take someone to come back at me with his height and weight - here we go. He's an absolute unit (as Banquo says, dense) - look at how he carries etc - he is seriously physical. Before this carries on - he wouldn't be my first choice, I don't think he'd be 2nd or 3rd either to be honest but he's clearly bloody physical. I don't think he loses too many collisions on the gainline put it that way.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:49 pm
by TheDasher
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:33 pm
He’s a monster in the same way that Steward can cover both wings and Itoje can cover no8.
You're thinking I was referring to him as a monster solely in terms of his height and weight. I meant he's very, very physical, he's a collision winner for sure. I'd have thought that was quite clear watching him play tbh.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:53 pm
by TheDasher
p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:31 pm
fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:22 pm
p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:18 pm
Roots an absolute monster? Is he really
No. 6'2' and about 17 & half stone. All the French back rowers are much bigger.
Really meant is he a monster - as in physically smashing people etc
Yep I think so - stamina can't be great and I don't think I've anything to get excited about but he's bloody physical when I've seen him play. His first carry vs Italy is a case in point - it kind of made you sit up and take note, he carried fcking hard. Watching one of these bok podcasts recently I think it was Schalke Burger saying "Roots is a proper carrier" - as in, there's a big old collision. Again, funnily enough I'm not sure he carries enough, not sure he breaks the tackle, I'm not sure he's that good - but he certainly hits with some impact when carrying or tackling. Put it this way, I think one of the massive French lads would probably rather collide with Chessum than Roots. Chessum is better though.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:56 pm
by Mellsblue
TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:49 pm
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:33 pm
He’s a monster in the same way that Steward can cover both wings and Itoje can cover no8.
You're thinking I was referring to him as a monster solely in terms of his height and weight. I meant he's very, very physical, he's a collision winner for sure. I'd have thought that was quite clear watching him play tbh.
It wasn’t clear. And I was one of the more positive on here about what he brings.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:58 pm
by Mikey Brown
TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:49 pm
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:33 pm
He’s a monster in the same way that Steward can cover both wings and Itoje can cover no8.
You're thinking I was referring to him as a monster solely in terms of his height and weight. I meant he's very, very physical, he's a collision winner for sure. I'd have thought that was quite clear watching him play tbh.
I really enjoyed Chessum’s run at 6 but I’m interested why they dropped Roots in the first place. Was there any mention of him being injured? He was fairly unremarkable, but I’d imagine that’s the stuff he was being picked for anyway. His whole game is about dominating collisions, as you say. Discipline maybe?
Still feels like a slightly uninspiring bench option, potentially with a tired Chessum then having to move to lock, but I’m sure he won’t let anyone down.
I thought I had a good roots manuva riposte but the moment is gone.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:09 pm
by p/d
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:35 pm
p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:31 pm
fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:22 pm
No. 6'2' and about 17 & half stone. All the French back rowers are much bigger.
Really meant is he a monster - as in physically smashing people etc
Indeed he can. It’s known in the camp as the Roots manoeuvre.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:31 pm
by 16th man
Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:02 pm
11. Elliot Daly
Puja will have to fire the KADAB counter up again
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:36 pm
by Banquo
16th man wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:31 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:02 pm
11. Elliot Daly
Puja will have to fire the KADAB counter up again
Its funny, cos when he was at his best, I always thought he/we underused his kicking. He could have done the James Lowe role.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 6:34 pm
by Puja
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:08 pmHas Furbank ever played wing at all? It doesn't sound right but I guess he'd be the emergency option with Slade at 15?
Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:12 pmIf a 15 gets crocked, probs slade to FB.
Surely the first option is MSmith at 15, given that he's played there internationally relatively recently and is a relatively like-for-like with Furbank there?
Puja
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 7:00 pm
by Mikey Brown
Yeah fair enough. There’s four options to cover fullback really, but it’s still wing that’s the issue. Tuilagi getting stuck opposite Bialle-Biarrey would be funny in several ways.
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 7:16 pm
by Banquo
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 6:34 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:08 pmHas Furbank ever played wing at all? It doesn't sound right but I guess he'd be the emergency option with Slade at 15?
Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:12 pmIf a 15 gets crocked, probs slade to FB.
Surely the first option is MSmith at 15, given that he's played there internationally relatively recently and is a relatively like-for-like with Furbank there?
Puja
not for me, but a fair point. Just dont see or think of him as a 15
Re: France v England
Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 7:32 pm
by Which Tyler
Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:17 pmnot to be sneezed at!
p/d wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 2:27 pm
Put through the mill, if you will
I feel sad that I used exactly those puns when he was called into the squad - and absolutely nobody riffed from there
TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:42 pmFor any mention of Guy Pepper - I'd say Pearson is ahead, can play 6 or 7, maybe even 8. Regardless, I understand the Roots decision, in what will be a physical game, it's fair to say he is an absolute monster to help counter some of the French monsters.
As he was in the original squad (IIRC), I suspect he would have been, had he not been injured against Portugal A(mateurs).
ETA: Sorry, I see that's been covered in t'other thread.