RugbyRebels

We may also compete at more lineouts, and again, we were the most successful at disrupting opposition throw ins, despite barely competing.

Digby wrote:With Hartley retained at 2 and Lawes at 6 then England should have a very strong lineout again, and as many know, and certainly those who watched the 1014 preview this England team score a lot of tries from the lineout (partly we're good off first phase, partly we suck at multiphase so other sources can dry up, though granted we in part suck at multiphase 'cause of our shape and breakdown work)

That's as maybe, but we may find it hard to get the ball off some sides, and may well find our own ball too slow to be of use unless we actually strike every time off first phase. Is that number just a high proportion of tries from lineout as related to our try count, or a higher proportion than other teams.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:With Hartley retained at 2 and Lawes at 6 then England should have a very strong lineout again, and as many know, and certainly those who watched the 1014 preview this England team score a lot of tries from the lineout (partly we're good off first phase, partly we suck at multiphase so other sources can dry up, though granted we in part suck at multiphase 'cause of our shape and breakdown work)

That's as maybe, but we may find it hard to get the ball off some sides, and may well find our own ball too slow to be of use unless we actually strike every time off first phase. Is that number just a high proportion of tries from lineout as related to our try count, or a higher proportion than other teams.

I'm not sold our plan or selection is a good idea. But it's interesting for what it's trying to do, and I don't discount Eddie can improve it and make it a success, though it's starting to feel as with Robinson, Ashton, Johnson and Burt there are easier ways to start and our plan is solving problems we don't need to have in the first place, and of course with Eddie's win % he can already claim it's a success, and it is, sort of.

However back on rugby England do look to strike quickly or kick the ball away. Our % of tries scored from lineouts is high, though not as high as the Scots. In other interesting bumpf on the lineout no team in the 6N concedes more tries from the lineout than Italy, and Italy try to control this by kicking more to touch from deep than any other team, go figure.

Back on England we didn't score a single try from turnover ball last 6N, whereas Ireland and Italy both managed 3, though I suppose at times vs Italy teams get a little over committed on attack.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:With Hartley retained at 2 and Lawes at 6 then England should have a very strong lineout again, and as many know, and certainly those who watched the 1014 preview this England team score a lot of tries from the lineout (partly we're good off first phase, partly we suck at multiphase so other sources can dry up, though granted we in part suck at multiphase 'cause of our shape and breakdown work)

That's as maybe, but we may find it hard to get the ball off some sides, and may well find our own ball too slow to be of use unless we actually strike every time off first phase. Is that number just a high proportion of tries from lineout as related to our try count, or a higher proportion than other teams.

I'm not sold our plan or selection is a good idea. But it's interesting for what it's trying to do, and I don't discount Eddie can improve it and make it a success, though it's starting to feel as with Robinson, Ashton, Johnson and Burt there are easier ways to start and our plan is solving problems we don't need to have in the first place, and of course with Eddie's win % he can already claim it's a success, and it is, sort of.

However back on rugby England do look to strike quickly or kick the ball away. Our % of tries scored from lineouts is high, though not as high as the Scots. In other interesting bumpf on the lineout no team in the 6N concedes more tries from the lineout than Italy, and Italy try to control this by kicking more to touch from deep than any other team, go figure.

Back on England we didn't score a single try from turnover ball last 6N, whereas Ireland and Italy both managed 3, though I suppose at times vs Italy teams get a little over committed on attack.

as you say, we seem to create problems by finding the wrong answer to other problems. again, as you say EJ can do what he wants IF he keeps winning. I just don't know what he will do if/when he doesn't, or adjusting mid game. The last minute wins we have engineered recently have not been down to a change of plan on field/half time, but the 'finishers' plan.

He could do his current plan if he'd just put Lozowski on the bench. Though I'd still prefer more mobility and carrying at 2 and 3, a blindside, an openside, and a running threat at 12, and all that just for starters as I'll have further issues at 9, 13 and 15, and once we get all that sorted I'd like to change the tactics. But I do like Eddie nonetheless, and what we're doing is interesting, i'd just rather see maybe France take on this system and then I could watch it without caring when it goes wrong

Digby wrote:He could do his current plan if he'd just put Lozowski on the bench. Though I'd still prefer more mobility and carrying at 2 and 3, a blindside, an openside, and a running threat at 12, and all that just for starters as I'll have further issues at 9, 13 and 15, and once we get all that sorted I'd like to change the tactics. But I do like Eddie nonetheless, and what we're doing is interesting, i'd just rather see maybe France take on this system and then I could watch it without caring when it goes wrong

as I've said, every unit in the team needs upgrading, bar maybe lock.

Banquo wrote:as I've said, every unit in the team needs upgrading, bar maybe lock.

Exactly, but with whom? Is there anyone available who would definitely bring about significant improvement? It's all marginal stuff till new players come through.

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:as I've said, every unit in the team needs upgrading, bar maybe lock.

Exactly, but with whom? Is there anyone available who would definitely bring about significant improvement? It's all marginal stuff till new players come through.

At some point you do have to pick new players, and that we've needlessly gone 20-30 games without trying to do so isn't much of an excuse now

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:as I've said, every unit in the team needs upgrading, bar maybe lock.

Exactly, but with whom? Is there anyone available who would definitely bring about significant improvement? It's all marginal stuff till new players come through.

Off the top of my head, in only a couple of positions....
George/LCD; Sinckler/Williams; Robshaw/Underhill; Kvesic/Curry/Simmonds (looks like he could be easily made a 7); Billy/Mercer; Robson/Jerome; Teo/Manu/Loz; Watson/Lozowski

Those aren't marginal; you may argue about 'gains' I guess.

Let’s hope this back row lineup is just for the Italy game.

I strongly dispute the argument that there is no-one else to pick when neither Wilson or Armand can make the squad and the guy picked instead of them can’t make the bench. Either one would have added more to our breakdown work without compromising massively on the lineout and arguably offering better carrying than Lawes.

Assuming the same back row lineups are retained, I am seriously concerned that we could end up losing to Wales or Scotland.

When is Haskell’s ban served? Is he available next week or is Scotland the first game he can play in? Even if he’s been out of form, I’d prefer a back row of him at 7 and Robshaw at 6. At least we know that’s serviceable.

Scrumhead wrote:Let’s hope this back row lineup is just for the Italy game.

I strongly dispute the argument that there is no-one else to pick when neither Wilson or Armand can make the squad and the guy picked instead of them can’t make the bench. Either one would have added more to our breakdown work without compromising massively on the lineout and arguably offering better carrying than Lawes.

Assuming the same back row lineups are retained, I am seriously concerned that we could end up losing to Wales or Scotland.

When is Haskell’s ban served? Is he available next week or is Scotland the first game he can play in? Even if he’s been out of form, I’d prefer a back row of him at 7 and Robshaw at 6. At least we know that’s serviceable.

I didn't even think about them, oops.

Stop harshing on my mellow, people. Maybe it'll all work out well....

Mr Mwenda wrote:Stop harshing on my mellow, people. Maybe it'll all work out well....

Yes, maybe we should all think positively and put our money where our mouths are, so to speak, by predicting in advance who we think the MoM will be. I'd normally go for Launchbury but I'll stick my neck out and say Lawes.

Scrumhead wrote:Let’s hope this back row lineup is just for the Italy game.

I strongly dispute the argument that there is no-one else to pick when neither Wilson or Armand can make the squad and the guy picked instead of them can’t make the bench. Either one would have added more to our breakdown work without compromising massively on the lineout and arguably offering better carrying than Lawes.

Assuming the same back row lineups are retained, I am seriously concerned that we could end up losing to Wales or Scotland.

When is Haskell’s ban served? Is he available next week or is Scotland the first game he can play in? Even if he’s been out of form, I’d prefer a back row of him at 7 and Robshaw at 6. At least we know that’s serviceable.

Given that the reason for Lawes Robshaw is that Eddie doesn't want 2 newbies in the backrow; I'm not convinced that any solution that proposes 2 newbies in the backrow is particularly valid. Of it was we'd be starting Robshaw, Underhill and Simmonds, and having a completely different conversation in the first place.

It's like suggesting Manu to answer the question "who could be a better 2nd 5/8 than Farrell?" It's an answer to a different question.

I think there are excellent reasons to consider Manu a better 2nd 5/8 than Farrell, albeit one with limited handling. I still don't see excellent reasons to consider Underworsleyhill an openside, and maybe even a test player - though given Wurzle Jnr looks set to play I'm hoping very much he's a class act when he plays

England bring the Raeburn Shield to play tomorrow.
Italy have never out their hands on it.

Conditions good, stadio nearly full...anthems underway.

Grass looks longish.

first scrum - good pressure by Eng.

Lovely!

lovely hands, and l-r

blimey..
watson in corner after 3. set move
0 - 5.

Beautiful try

good aggression from Ita runners..

Ford doing the Sexton loop 3 times in the first 10 minutes.
Working well too, but I feel that Faz is broadcasting it a bit much, but it's early days yet