RugbyRebels

Sourdust wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Buggaluggs wrote:I do think the red card needs to be changed. I think it should mean 10 mins in the bin then forced substitution. An early red card just makes too much of an impact.

I disagree. If you want to make rugby less dangerous then foul play must be properly punished.

Yes, punishment must be severe. Ireland lost this match because of O'Mahony's stupidity (let's face it, they'd have handled us easily with 15) and quite right too. Sometimes you can sympathize with a player, but POM has form for this kind of thuggery and to be quite honest I laughed him off the pitch.

After that, Ireland were excellent and in the end, unlucky. Wales' defence was massively improved. In terms of attack, there's not a lot wrong with our finishing; I don't think we missed any really good scoring chances? The problem is how few we created, playing 70 minutes against 14 men.

Barnes' ruck interpretations were a bit "unfashionable", heavily favouring the team in possession, but he applied them evenly and Wales were too slow to adapt.

Scotland should feel confident next week. The good news for Wales is that defeat at Murrayfield would now not quite be the catastrophe it could have been. A Wyn is a Wyn.

For me, the red card should be 20 mins off, then substitution. My problem with the red card sanction is not that it's harsh, it's that the harshness depends on when it happens in the match.

Logic says they'd have beaten us with 15 men, but who knows? We were on top when it was 15 vs 15, then were second best for the next half hour. Logic-defying.

We defended well-ish except that turnovers were hard to find (although maybe that was Barnes). We were much worse at choke-tackling than they were.

Lineout obviously a car crash. Something needs to be done, which is worrying because it was obviously a problem in the Autumn, so they must have given it some time in the last couple of weeks. So this was the lineout after a lot of practice.

Scrum was rock solid, good job done there.

Tough to lose Lydiate so soon but at least Navidi is back. Amos didn't do anything amazing so will presumably give up his spot to Liam next time. I would have liked to have seen Sheedy at fly half but Biggar was fine. North was great at 13, long may it continue.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

normanski wrote: Also was North gauged in the eyes in one tackle. It wasn’t looked at but George certainly had scratch marks under both eyes.

Possible citing?

It was shrugged off by the commentators as one of those things, but those scratches under the eyes look more deliberate than accidental.

Do you remember when that happened, roughly?

Second half when we were attacking. 55-60 minutes roughly

Amos had one bright moment where he managed to draw a penalty for a high tackle, shortly followed by a dreadful kick. If Liam is fit then he needs to return.

I’d definitely keep North at 13. It’s a positive move and deserves a proper opportunity.

Sandydragon wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: It was shrugged off by the commentators as one of those things, but those scratches under the eyes look more deliberate than accidental.

Do you remember when that happened, roughly?

Second half when we were attacking. 55-60 minutes roughly

It was actually earlier, 42.30 on the clock. Ireland 12 tackles
North and his hand makes contacts with North’s face.

All negatives aside though, I'll take that win. It gives Pivac a little breathing space, keeps us in the championship (God knows we've started poorly before). Need to back it up next week.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:All negatives aside though, I'll take that win. It gives Pivac a little breathing space, keeps us in the championship (God knows we've started poorly before). Need to back it up next week.

I wasn’t expecting for us to win today so I’ll take a W no matter how ugly.

Sandydragon wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote: Do you remember when that happened, roughly?

Second half when we were attacking. 55-60 minutes roughly

It was actually earlier, 42.30 on the clock. Ireland 12 tackles
North and his hand makes contacts with North’s face.

My wife said the hand doing the gauging had the two middle finger bent back and the index and little finger pointing upwards into the eyes. She said it was a deliberate act.

normanski wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: Second half when we were attacking. 55-60 minutes roughly

It was actually earlier, 42.30 on the clock. Ireland 12 tackles
North and his hand makes contacts with North’s face.

My wife said the hand doing the gauging had the two middle finger bent back and the index and little finger pointing upwards into the eyes. She said it was a deliberate act.

The poke in the eye by Henshaw looked accidental, but when North was having his eye looked at he clearly had red marks below both eyes

Son of Mathonwy wrote:All negatives aside though, I'll take that win. It gives Pivac a little breathing space, keeps us in the championship (God knows we've started poorly before). Need to back it up next week.

Agree with this. Look at the half time comments (mine included) and it could have been much worse. It sounds as though a number of Wales players will not be available for next week though. Wonder whether Pivac might call up another 12 with injuries to Jonathan Davies and Johnny Williams.

Goes without saying that Scotland will be big favourites.

normanski wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: Second half when we were attacking. 55-60 minutes roughly

It was actually earlier, 42.30 on the clock. Ireland 12 tackles
North and his hand makes contacts with North’s face.

My wife said the hand doing the gauging had the two middle finger bent back and the index and little finger pointing upwards into the eyes. She said it was a deliberate act.

They are substantial scratches for what seems a trivial contact

Wallpaperman wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:All negatives aside though, I'll take that win. It gives Pivac a little breathing space, keeps us in the championship (God knows we've started poorly before). Need to back it up next week.

Agree with this. Look at the half time comments (mine included) and it could have been much worse. It sounds as though a number of Wales players will not be available for next week though. Wonder whether Pivac might call up another 12 with injuries to Jonathan Davies and Johnny Williams.

Goes without saying that Scotland will be big favourites.

At half-time I doubt you could have got odds on Ireland to win, even with the 14 men. But we won the 2nd half 15-3.

There was LOTS to complain about but let's be honest; we were braced for the worst today, and at the end of it we're well in the mix. No, I don't expect us to beat Scotland, but 12 hours ago I knew we couldn't beat Ireland.

Wallpaperman wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:All negatives aside though, I'll take that win. It gives Pivac a little breathing space, keeps us in the championship (God knows we've started poorly before). Need to back it up next week.

Agree with this. Look at the half time comments (mine included) and it could have been much worse. It sounds as though a number of Wales players will not be available for next week though. Wonder whether Pivac might call up another 12 with injuries to Jonathan Davies and Johnny Williams.

Goes without saying that Scotland will be big favourites.

Hopefully Kieran Williams.

Sandydragon wrote: Hopefully Kieran Williams.

We can dream, I suppose.

He would certainly seem the like-for-like fit for JW, and with the latter only on a handful of caps himself, the experience argument won't wash.

I imagine it'll be Watkin, though. Half-a-dozen caps always trumps form, sadly. Not that I think Watkin would let us down, but KW is obviously the form 12 in Wales.

Sourdust wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: Hopefully Kieran Williams.

We can dream, I suppose.

He would certainly seem the like-for-like fit for JW, and with the latter only on a handful of caps himself, the experience argument won't wash.

I imagine it'll be Watkin, though. Half-a-dozen caps always trumps form, sadly. Not that I think Watkin would let us down, but KW is obviously the form 12 in Wales.

If Privac wants experience and form then it’s got to be Jamie Roberts!

Sandydragon wrote: If Privac wants experience and form then it’s got to be Jamie Roberts!

Fair shout!

Seriously, at this point in "the cycle" it's about picking your best players. The Doc is playing very handily indeed.

Sandydragon wrote:

normanski wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: It was actually earlier, 42.30 on the clock. Ireland 12 tackles
North and his hand makes contacts with North’s face.

My wife said the hand doing the gauging had the two middle finger bent back and the index and little finger pointing upwards into the eyes. She said it was a deliberate act.

They are substantial scratches for what seems a trivial contact

It's a weird flick of the fingers into the eyes. Not obviously deliberate but it should have been a penalty for high tackle at least.

Sourdust wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: If Privac wants experience and form then it’s got to be Jamie Roberts!

Fair shout!

Seriously, at this point in "the cycle" it's about picking your best players. The Doc is playing very handily indeed.

Roberts has played very well of late, and Kieran Williams has got better with every game. Both could do a good job at 12. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were added to the squad, but I think the starting lineup will come from the initial group as they had trained together for a fortnight and it’s a short turnaround between these two games.

Sorry, meaning that we’ll probably see Tompkins (who went well yesterday) and Watkin in the centre.

Wallpaperman wrote:Sorry, meaning that we’ll probably see Tompkins (who went well yesterday) and Watkin in the centre.

Or keep North at 13 and bring in Liam Williams instead of Amos. I can't see LRZ getting dropped, nor Halfpenny for hat matter. Probably Tompkins to start at 12 with Watkin on the bench.

I do agree that the next match day squad is likely to be from the original wider squad and the earliest we would see replacements is for England.

Sandydragon wrote:

Wallpaperman wrote:Sorry, meaning that we’ll probably see Tompkins (who went well yesterday) and Watkin in the centre.

Or keep North at 13 and bring in Liam Williams instead of Amos. I can't see LRZ getting dropped, nor Halfpenny for hat matter. Probably Tompkins to start at 12 with Watkin on the bench.

I do agree that the next match day squad is likely to be from the original wider squad and the earliest we would see replacements is for England.

Duh, of course they will keep North at 13. Thanks Sandy !

Rewatching the match and looking specifically at the line outs we lost:

8 mins - Irish 5 gets a hand in front of Tipurics
14 mins - Irish jumper gets a hand in front of BEard's
36 mins - we lose but the TV doesn't show the line out (replays of Lowes kick)
55 mins - Irish jumper gets a hand in front of Tipuric

In the 63rd minute, we have a bit of confusion that actually works well for us where the ball appears to go too long but its swept up by AWJ and an attacking play develops nicely as a result.

Im not sure that blaming or changing the hooker is going to solve the issue. Potentially our jumpers aren't getting high enough quickly enough or equally possible we are telegraphing our line out calls too much

The other big takeaways from re-watching the game were:

How many penalties we gave away at the breakdown, mostly in defence but a few in attack, which completely lost us possession and momentum.

How many times we turned the ball over in attack when momentum was building.

How many handling errors we made.

Lots there to be working on still.

Sandydragon wrote:Rewatching the match and looking specifically at the line outs we lost:

8 mins - Irish 5 gets a hand in front of Tipurics
14 mins - Irish jumper gets a hand in front of BEard's
36 mins - we lose but the TV doesn't show the line out (replays of Lowes kick)
55 mins - Irish jumper gets a hand in front of Tipuric

In the 63rd minute, we have a bit of confusion that actually works well for us where the ball appears to go too long but its swept up by AWJ and an attacking play develops nicely as a result.

Im not sure that blaming or changing the hooker is going to solve the issue. Potentially our jumpers aren't getting high enough quickly enough or equally possible we are telegraphing our line out calls too much

The Irish read our lineout calls very well and got jumpers in front so it wasn't really comparable to the overthrows of the autumn, I think with a few different calls we should be fine, we were just too predictable.

Well, as a result of that epic victory, we are now 8th in the world rankings, up from 9th.

Something for us all to celebrate.