England vs Australia - Sat 3.10pm

[Scrumhead]

Yep. We’re creating a gameplan that suits the players we have not hankering for mythical players of a certain size.

[Oakboy]

Yep. We’re creating a gameplan that suits the players we have not hankering for mythical players of a certain size.

Can't argue with SB doing that. Do you see him chopping and changing? I suppose he could build towards NZ with few changes next week. Conversely, will he swap some of the bench in with some of the Lions now tuned in?

[pjm1]

Was Dingwall bad or did Ford make him look so? Argue for and against Dingwall and Freeman but why not start Fin to complete the Saints connection? I thought Mitchell and Ford were on different wavelengths. Either pick the Saints back line or build a different one around Ford.

What would be the reasoning for Ford hindering Dingwall? I can’t see how you can blame Ford for his intercept for example

I saw no cohesion between the two. Ford is just a traffic cone in defence (whereas Fin is a decent defender). That puts pressure on the IC. In attack, did they do anything together? Ford is the form FH but yesterday he did not get the best out of situations as they arose, arguably his strong point over competitors usually. Dingwall looked ordinary but would have looked better with Fin at 10. That's all I am saying. I would like to see the one change for the next game - Fin for Ford. After that, if it does not work, maybe Dingwall should go.

I have advocated Freeman at 13 and saw enough good to want him retained there. I think he needs Dingwall inside him for now. Let's face it, there are three games to get it right or bloody Farrell will be back for the 6N.

I 100% agree with this. I was in favour of picking Ford for yesterday's game, but I think his remaining time is as a "controller" sub, or starting if F Smith is injured. Although Ford's distribution is excellent, he and Dingwall clearly weren't quite on the same telepathic wavelength, and that should change if we start F Smith. I didn't think Dingers has a particularly good game - and not just because of the intercept (although that was a shocker), but I'd like to try him again with F Smith inside. I feel their combo would really unlock what our backs attack is trying to do.

Freeman at 13 is also worth persisting with, for me. He was decent enough in traffic (although clearly no Manu) and his edge defensive duties were largely done well enough. But most of all, I don't see how we can't pick Roebuck after that performance, and I wouldn't want Freeman out of the XV. Maybe eventually a 15, but let's give him another shot at 13, with his Saints colleagues inside.

[Mikey Brown]

Really hard to know what to make of that game. Ball retention was so poor from both sides and it was hard to judge how much of that was just down to the weather.

We thoroughly wore them down, as predicted, and the forward impact off the bench was telling. Curry and Pepper had some good moments but I don’t think the suggestion of them completely turning it around at the breakdown seems quite accurate. I thought Pepper and Underhill were two of our best players.

We failed to make much of our possession and dominance until Aus fell apart. Hard to pinpoint how much that was us improving or them crumbling.

It’s sort of funny with all the talk around Tom Willis that we’d only scored those two tries by having absolutely rapid number 8s on the field.

Backs were generally very disjointed. Freeman at 13 was a mixed bag but it was great to see we were getting him on the ball. Not sure what to do about the fullback issue right now, but enjoyed the wing pair.

[Puja]

What would be the reasoning for Ford hindering Dingwall? I can’t see how you can blame Ford for his intercept for example

I saw no cohesion between the two. Ford is just a traffic cone in defence (whereas Fin is a decent defender). That puts pressure on the IC. In attack, did they do anything together? Ford is the form FH but yesterday he did not get the best out of situations as they arose, arguably his strong point over competitors usually. Dingwall looked ordinary but would have looked better with Fin at 10. That's all I am saying. I would like to see the one change for the next game - Fin for Ford. After that, if it does not work, maybe Dingwall should go.

I have advocated Freeman at 13 and saw enough good to want him retained there. I think he needs Dingwall inside him for now. Let's face it, there are three games to get it right or bloody Farrell will be back for the 6N.

I 100% agree with this. I was in favour of picking Ford for yesterday's game, but I think his remaining time is as a "controller" sub, or starting if F Smith is injured. Although Ford's distribution is excellent, he and Dingwall clearly weren't quite on the same telepathic wavelength, and that should change if we start F Smith. I didn't think Dingers has a particularly good game - and not just because of the intercept (although that was a shocker), but I'd like to try him again with F Smith inside. I feel their combo would really unlock what our backs attack is trying to do.

Freeman at 13 is also worth persisting with, for me. He was decent enough in traffic (although clearly no Manu) and his edge defensive duties were largely done well enough. But most of all, I don't see how we can't pick Roebuck after that performance, and I wouldn't want Freeman out of the XV. Maybe eventually a 15, but let's give him another shot at 13, with his Saints colleagues inside.

I was in favour of picking FSmith to start with, as he has a pre-existing connection with Dingwall, but it seems odd to call for a change now after they've had 70-odd minutes together. If the opinion is that Ford is the better player right now, then we need to actually give that combination time to gel, rather than chuck it in tbe bin because it wasn't perfect after three training sessions and one match!

Puja

[Puja]

It’s sort of funny with all the talk around Tom Willis that we’d only scored those two tries by having absolutely rapid number 8s on the field.

Although hopefully Pollock has learned a minor lesson about being overly cocky at the international stage after his try - had he run straight and headed for the corner, then he scores untouched, but he thinks he has Kellaway beaten and starts rounding in to head under the posts, already looking up at the screen and planning his celebration, which gives Kellaway the chance to make the tap-tackle. The panicked scrabbling to pick himself up and rescue the nearly butchered try took some of the cool factor off of it!

Puja

[Scrumhead]

@Puja - any plans to do M-B-Ms for the AIs?

[Mikey Brown]

It’s sort of funny with all the talk around Tom Willis that we’d only scored those two tries by having absolutely rapid number 8s on the field.

Although hopefully Pollock has learned a minor lesson about being overly cocky at the international stage after his try - had he run straight and headed for the corner, then he scores untouched, but he thinks he has Kellaway beaten and starts rounding in to head under the posts, already looking up at the screen and planning his celebration, which gives Kellaway the chance to make the tap-tackle. The panicked scrabbling to pick himself up and rescue the nearly butchered try took some of the cool factor off of it!

Puja

Yeah, getting tap tackled mid-smirk and then falling over again before finally managing to do that fifa/tiktok celebration was pretty cringe.

Beautiful step/swerve though.

MBMs are always welcome. Though a single week turnaround always looks like an awful lot of work for you before people’s attention drifts on to the next game.

You could probably getting many uses from copying and pasting a section where a high ball goes up and it ricochets between several players before eventually getting knocked on.

[SixAndAHalf]

I saw no cohesion between the two. Ford is just a traffic cone in defence (whereas Fin is a decent defender). That puts pressure on the IC. In attack, did they do anything together? Ford is the form FH but yesterday he did not get the best out of situations as they arose, arguably his strong point over competitors usually. Dingwall looked ordinary but would have looked better with Fin at 10. That's all I am saying. I would like to see the one change for the next game - Fin for Ford. After that, if it does not work, maybe Dingwall should go.

I have advocated Freeman at 13 and saw enough good to want him retained there. I think he needs Dingwall inside him for now. Let's face it, there are three games to get it right or bloody Farrell will be back for the 6N.

I 100% agree with this. I was in favour of picking Ford for yesterday's game, but I think his remaining time is as a "controller" sub, or starting if F Smith is injured. Although Ford's distribution is excellent, he and Dingwall clearly weren't quite on the same telepathic wavelength, and that should change if we start F Smith. I didn't think Dingers has a particularly good game - and not just because of the intercept (although that was a shocker), but I'd like to try him again with F Smith inside. I feel their combo would really unlock what our backs attack is trying to do.

Freeman at 13 is also worth persisting with, for me. He was decent enough in traffic (although clearly no Manu) and his edge defensive duties were largely done well enough. But most of all, I don't see how we can't pick Roebuck after that performance, and I wouldn't want Freeman out of the XV. Maybe eventually a 15, but let's give him another shot at 13, with his Saints colleagues inside.

I was in favour of picking FSmith to start with, as he has a pre-existing connection with Dingwall, but it seems odd to call for a change now after they've had 70-odd minutes together. If the opinion is that Ford is the better player right now, then we need to actually give that combination time to gel, rather than chuck it in tbe bin because it wasn't perfect after three training sessions and one match!

Puja

I am a fan of both FSmith and Ford and see the benefit of either - I don't think Ford tore up trees yesterday (though his kicking from hand was excellent and he looked good when on the ball, e.g. the pass to Earl for his nearly try). The issues with the attack weren't due to playmaking - more due to the execution once making the line break - and thus I don't think having FSmith there would have made the game dramatically different.

I think FSmith is going to have to earn his place back now, either by his club form demanding it or by coming on and making an impact.

[Cameo]

Is there anything to this Earl at centre chat? It's fine as a cover option and there would be some logic to getting hin familiar there by starting him in an easier game, but I keep reading journalists talking about it as an option to start or add spark to the midfield. Is that just journalists getting overexcited? I struggle to see a world where he is England's best option at 12.

[FKAS]

Is there anything to this Earl at centre chat? It's fine as a cover option and there would be some logic to getting hin familiar there by starting him in an easier game, but I keep reading journalists talking about it as an option to start or add spark to the midfield. Is that just journalists getting overexcited? I struggle to see a world where he is England's best option at 12.

Cover option to help facilitate a 6:2 or maybe even a 7:1 split on the bench. Doubt he'll start there unless it's to give him experience.

[Puja]

Is there anything to this Earl at centre chat? It's fine as a cover option and there would be some logic to getting hin familiar there by starting him in an easier game, but I keep reading journalists talking about it as an option to start or add spark to the midfield. Is that just journalists getting overexcited? I struggle to see a world where he is England's best option at 12.

I mean, we could do fsr worse. I'd prefer him to play there full-time if he's going to do it, but he's fast, powerful, and can run a good line off a 10. His hands and decision-making are decent enough - he's not going to be unpicking a defence on his own, but if we want to use 12 just to make dents in a defensive line and offload from the tackle/create quick ball, he's better at that role than Lawrence!

Puja

[Mellsblue]

I’m sure I’ve read that Borthwick plans to start Earl at 12 at some point. Also just found out that Freeman’s nickname is Freemo so he’s immediately dropped.

[Puja]

@Puja - any plans to do M-B-Ms for the AIs?

Due to personal commitments this week, there definitely won't be a full one for Australia (I might see whether a highlights package of the m-b-m is doable - only commenting on notable minutes. We'll see).

Fiji will depend on the actual level of interest in the game - if it's dour or a canter that won't really elicit us learning anything from a m-b-m, then probably not.

New Zealand will be definite, mark your calendars.

Argentina same as Fiji.

Puja

[Puja]

In lieu of that, Charlie Morgan has doen a belting job of analysing the Wigglesworth defence, including a really interesting bit on how Freeman's pace a decision-making was used to cover when we were short on the edges. I was worried about Freeman's defence at 13, given his inexperience, but it appears I was very much wrong to be concerned (although the ABs will provide a stiffer test).

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... -spoiling/
https://archive.ph/4Ga6w

It's worth a read even if only to watch the gif, of Underhill demolishing Edmed with a textbook perfect hip-tackle, on a loop: https://cf-particle-html.eip.telegraph. ... mplate=cls

Puja

[jngf]

Is there anything to this Earl at centre chat? It's fine as a cover option and there would be some logic to getting hin familiar there by starting him in an easier game, but I keep reading journalists talking about it as an option to start or add spark to the midfield. Is that just journalists getting overexcited? I struggle to see a world where he is England's best option at 12.

I mean, we could do fsr worse. I'd prefer him to play there full-time if he's going to do it, but he's fast, powerful, and can run a good line off a 10. His hands and decision-making are decent enough - he's not going to be unpicking a defence on his own, but if we want to use 12 just to make dents in a defensive line and offload from the tackle/create quick ball, he's better at that role than Lawrence!

Puja

I would be willing to have a look at Earl and for that matter Pollock as starting centres over Dingwall who hasn’t exactly set the world alight? Ditto would like to see Max Ojomoh given another start at 12

[jngf]

Is there anything to this Earl at centre chat? It's fine as a cover option and there would be some logic to getting hin familiar there by starting him in an easier game, but I keep reading journalists talking about it as an option to start or add spark to the midfield. Is that just journalists getting overexcited? I struggle to see a world where he is England's best option at 12.

I mean, we could do fsr worse. I'd prefer him to play there full-time if he's going to do it, but he's fast, powerful, and can run a good line off a 10. His hands and decision-making are decent enough - he's not going to be unpicking a defence on his own, but if we want to use 12 just to make dents in a defensive line and offload from the tackle/create quick ball, he's better at that role than Lawrence!

Puja

I would be willing to have a look at Earl and for that matter Pollock as starting centres over Dingwall who hasn’t exactly set the world alight? Ditto would like to see Max Ojomoh given another start at 12

[Spiffy]

It’s sort of funny with all the talk around Tom Willis that we’d only scored those two tries by having absolutely rapid number 8s on the field.

Although hopefully Pollock has learned a minor lesson about being overly cocky at the international stage after his try - had he run straight and headed for the corner, then he scores untouched, but he thinks he has Kellaway beaten and starts rounding in to head under the posts, already looking up at the screen and planning his celebration, which gives Kellaway the chance to make the tap-tackle. The panicked scrabbling to pick himself up and rescue the nearly butchered try took some of the cool factor off of it!

Puja

Pollock is a super talented player, but still just a kid and naturally exuberant. Still, his antics have a bad look, and establishing a reputation as a big ego show-off does himself or the team no good. Not a great role model for countless kids who want to emulate their idol. On-field celebrations are OK but don't have to be over the top. SB should have have a quiet (or loud) word in his ear.

[Captainhaircut]

I don’t think many young kids are role modelling themselves on perfectly behaved rugby players like Chris Robshaw.

He’s a kid and absolutely loving playing for England, not quite sure what he does wrong? Celebrates a bit. Heaven forbid…

He’s never injured anyone punched anyone, racially abused anyone. Let’s not make up like Rugby is a game played by saints…

[Spiffy]

I don’t think many young kids are role modelling themselves on perfectly behaved rugby players like Chris Robshaw.

He’s a kid and absolutely loving playing for England, not quite sure what he does wrong? Celebrates a bit. Heaven forbid…

He’s never injured anyone punched anyone, racially abused anyone. Let’s not make up like Rugby is a game played by saints…

...... it is in Northampton

[Mellsblue]

Yeah. I reckon Pollock is good for English rugby on and off the pitch.
Stuart Barnes reckons Pollock was likely looking at the big screen to see if he was clear of the cover d. Anyone who watches the NFL will tell you that Daniel Jones thinks that is a good idea.

[Spiffy]

Yeah. I reckon Pollock is good for English rugby on and off the pitch.
Stuart Barnes reckons Pollock was likely looking at the big screen to see if he was clear of the cover d. Anyone who watches the NFL will tell you that Daniel Jones thinks that is a good idea.

Naw...... Henry was checking out his dye job and charting his swan dive line.

[Puja]

Yeah. I reckon Pollock is good for English rugby on and off the pitch.
Stuart Barnes reckons Pollock was likely looking at the big screen to see if he was clear of the cover d. Anyone who watches the NFL will tell you that Daniel Jones thinks that is a good idea.

In which case, he did a terrible job, cause he started trying to go under the posts before he was clear of the cover d!

Puja

[FKAS]

I don’t think many young kids are role modelling themselves on perfectly behaved rugby players like Chris Robshaw.

He’s a kid and absolutely loving playing for England, not quite sure what he does wrong? Celebrates a bit. Heaven forbid…

He’s never injured anyone punched anyone, racially abused anyone. Let’s not make up like Rugby is a game played by saints…

...... it is in Northampton

I always presumed the name was ironic.

[Mikey Brown]

I stand by his determination to fit that celebration in being embarrassing, and getting caught cruising, but forgot to mention the pickup itself before the step was quality too.

Sort of sums up where he is as a player for me, right now. No doubting the natural talent, but that’s not the whole picture.