Eugene Wrayburn wrote:Massively disappointing result. Not as awful a performance as some of you seem to think - England were way better than so far this 6N and perhaps anything we've seen from them under Jones before - but disappointing nonetheless. You need to find a way of playing when the referee neuters the breakdown turnover as a source of ball for you.
Yeah, that's a valid point about the breakdown, we seemed to have not backup plan for that, and kept smashing our heads off that penalty brick wall for the whole game.
Barclay in particular seems to struggle to adapt. See Ireland game last 6N as an example.
The score looks worse due to the midfield defence not having a clue. I can't believe they didn't work on it so it has to go down as a bad day at the office for them.
I'm actually more disappointed for the players that myself tbh. In a big slot Russell failed to take any grip on the game and had some brain fadea, a chance for Hogg to shine taken away due to injury (not sure how he did it), Dunbar and Jones being poor, Watson not shinning etc etc
Are we the most mentally fragile tier 1/2 nation going? Whenever there's a yellow, a red... a key player goes off, a couple of injuries hit us and it all goes to pot.
This doesn't happen to Wales or to Ireland (closest like for like alternatives I can think of) - they just get on with it. Sure sometimes they lose but they never get routed from minute 3 to minute 80 like that. Ireland even beat SA with a red - we'd have capitulated.
Wilson looked absolutely fucked about 10 minutes in to the game so must be gone too. Can't say I noticed CDP much but not exactly a dream platform for him.
Wilson looked absolutely fucked about 10 minutes in to the game so must be gone too. Can't say I noticed CDP much but not exactly a dream platform for him.
Greig's point is the far more worrying one.
What was his point? Inassume by greig you mean Laidlaw?
Wilson looked absolutely fucked about 10 minutes in to the game so must be gone too. Can't say I noticed CDP much but not exactly a dream platform for him.
Greig's point is the far more worrying one.
Not a popular choice but I'd wang in Kinghorn. He plays 15 and leave Maitland and Visser for wings.
I meant the mental fragility thing. Things do fall apart all too easily but the lack of depth and reffing nonsense really compounded that today.
I was going to suggest some of those moments of insanity on our own line was us losing our heads but we do that shit most games and had a few lucky escapes again today. I think Russell just enjoys being a fucking spastic for the sake of it sometimes.
Abject effort, compounded by diabolical discipline. Brown's offence was a straight red, no question. Joseph's first 2 tries were straight off the training ground - weak/no defence. If we play like this next week against Italy, victory is definitely not assured!
Two ways for the team to take that dismal performance. To whimper & go into their shells like we did after Wales beat us at the death years back. OR learn from it, get that nasty knarly edge and show a positive reaction in the next game. One thing that has been clear, individual players can make tackles but we seem to be very easy to score against, we seem badly organised and easily caught out in defence. I assume the 'defence' coach is out when Toonie comes in? (very deliberate ' ' as I can't for the life of me see what he does.)
I was wondering that. Can anyone clarify on the coaching ins/outs? I'd hope we're keeping attack and dumping defence but have a horrible feeling it's the other way round.
I said in a comment at the start of the match we were beaten before we even stepped out on the field. The guys came out with some weird game plan that wasn't their usual (this 6n) game plan, they were playing slower and more deliberately. Right from the off it was obvious the chat in training had been about adapting our game plan to england rather than trusting ourselves and our game plan to cause england trouble, and let them worry about us. I think this is where the mental fragility thing comes from.
It was so much easier to blame Them. It was bleakly depressing to think They were Us. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Did anyone else notice the absolute number Itoje did on Barclay. Right in his face, winding him up all game, thats where Barclays frustration came from. Master class from Itoje there, if it had been a Scottish guy doing it to the oppo I'd have been laughing myself silly, as it was you all could've heard my teeth grinding about it. Barclay will feel pretty daft I'm sure when he reflects on it.
It was so much easier to blame Them. It was bleakly depressing to think They were Us. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Mikey Brown wrote:I was wondering that. Can anyone clarify on the coaching ins/outs? I'd hope we're keeping attack and dumping defence but have a horrible feeling it's the other way round.
Wylie Coyote wrote:Two ways for the team to take that dismal performance. To whimper & go into their shells like we did after Wales beat us at the death years back. OR learn from it, get that nasty knarly edge and show a positive reaction in the next game. One thing that has been clear, individual players can make tackles but we seem to be very easy to score against, we seem badly organised and easily caught out in defence. I assume the 'defence' coach is out when Toonie comes in? (very deliberate ' ' as I can't for the life of me see what he does.)
Matt Taylor is Glasgow defence coach as well and staying in post.
Donny osmond wrote:Did anyone else notice the absolute number Itoje did on Barclay. Right in his face, winding him up all game, thats where Barclays frustration came from. Master class from Itoje there, if it had been a Scottish guy doing it to the oppo I'd have been laughing myself silly, as it was you all could've heard my teeth grinding about it. Barclay will feel pretty daft I'm sure when he reflects on it.
Donny osmond wrote:Did anyone else notice the absolute number Itoje did on Barclay. Right in his face, winding him up all game, thats where Barclays frustration came from. Master class from Itoje there, if it had been a Scottish guy doing it to the oppo I'd have been laughing myself silly, as it was you all could've heard my teeth grinding about it. Barclay will feel pretty daft I'm sure when he reflects on it.
Yup ! I did notice their game within a game . Not sure if it was by accident or design but Barclay seemed to be on a mission and lost the impact we've seen in other games .He obviously had a bad day at the office and I'm sure other coaches took notice of his loss of focus .
Donny osmond wrote:Did anyone else notice the absolute number Itoje did on Barclay. Right in his face, winding him up all game, thats where Barclays frustration came from. Master class from Itoje there, if it had been a Scottish guy doing it to the oppo I'd have been laughing myself silly, as it was you all could've heard my teeth grinding about it. Barclay will feel pretty daft I'm sure when he reflects on it.
I saw that. Maro loves to talk I've noticed.
Maybe he'll get a crafty smack on the puss one of these days. Great player though. And I did laugh my leg off at a kid of that age being able to wind up the veteran Barclay so easily. He could well be the next England captain - maybe sooner than later.
Yup. Feel like if the ref was paying attention that Itoje's actions (assume we're talking the reversed penalty here?) were far less sporting but he achieved what he set out to do. I won't pretend I'd have been any calmer about it if in Barclay's shoes. I'm gutted for him.
Big D wrote:
The score looks worse due to the midfield defence not having a clue. I can't believe they didn't work on it so it has to go down as a bad day at the office for them.
I'm 50/50 on whether to blame the midfield defence, or giving up such stupids pens which gave England the setpiece possession and territory which led to the midfield being exposed
Think yer being harsh on yerselves, ye just disnt have the power to compete from the off, ye needed a denton out there just to get go forward. The yellow was a set back, followed by hogg and Bennett, Wilson was fucked and ye'd lost the other 7 pre game. If he reversed the pen on Barclay why not give one against itoje one for unsporting behaviour throughout the game? I'm sure not been given a turnover for holding on fed into Barclays frustration also
Probably the most disappointing Scolamd game I can remember. Everything that could go wrong could go wrong apart from the scrum, wierdly.
Very tough to pick out individual problems but:
- England had clearly identified a weakness in our midfield defence and exploited it amazingly.
- if a ref isnt keen on competing at the breakdowm we need to be able to cope better ( I have no idea how)
- we need to be a to retain some kind of structure with injuries. I think Horne would be a better option with this but would havr made much diffrerence
