RugbyRebels

6 NATIONS VS NZ, since 2000(Wikipedia)
I chose 2000 randomly as a starting date.

England 17 Games, NZ won 14, England won 3

8 November 2014 Twickenham, London 21 – 24 New Zealand 2014 Autumn International
21 June 2014 Waikato Stadium, Hamilton 36 – 13 New Zealand 2014 England tour of New Zealand
14 June 2014 Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin 28 – 27 New Zealand
7 June 2014 Eden Park, Auckland 20 – 15 New Zealand
16 November 2013 Twickenham, London 22 – 30 New Zealand 2013 Autumn International
1 December 2012 Twickenham, London 38 – 21 England 2012 Autumn International
6 November 2010 Twickenham, London 16 – 26 New Zealand 2010 Autumn International
21 November 2009 Twickenham, London 6 – 19 New Zealand 2009 Autumn International
29 November 2008 Twickenham, London 6 – 32 New Zealand 2008 Autumn International
21 June 2008 AMI Stadium, Christchurch 44– 12 New Zealand English tour of New Zealand
14 June 2008 Eden Park, Auckland 37– 20 New Zealand
5 November 2006 Twickenham, London 20 – 41 New Zealand 2005 Autumn International
19 November 2005 Twickenham, London 19 – 23 New Zealand 2005 New Zealand Grand Slam Tour
219 June 2004 Eden Park, Auckland 36 – 12 New Zealand 2004 English Tour of Australia
12 June 2004 Carisbrook, Dunedin 36 – 3 New Zealand
14 June 2003 Westpac Stadium, Wellington 13 – 15 England 2003 English Tour of Australia
9 November 2002 Twickenham, London 31 – 28 England 2002 Autumn International



France 22 Games, NZ won 18, France won 3, Draw 1.

17 October 2015 Millennium Stadium, Cardiff, Wales 62 – 13 New Zealand 2015 Rugby World Cup Quarter-final
9 November 2013 Stade de France, Saint-Denis 19 – 26 New Zealand 2013 end-of year test TG
22 June 2013 Yarrow Stadium, New Plymouth 24 – 9 New Zealand 2013 French tour to New Zealand BBC
15 June 2013 Rugby League Park, Christchurch 30 – 0 New Zealand BBC
8 June 2013 Eden Park, Auckland 23 – 13 New Zealand ABC
23 October 2011 Eden Park, Auckland 8 – 7 New Zealand 2011 Rugby World Cup Final BBC
24 September 2011 Eden Park, Auckland 37 – 17 New Zealand 2011 Rugby World Cup BBC
28 November 2009 Stade Vélodrome, Marseilles 12 – 39 New Zealand 2009 end of year rugby union tests BBC
20 June 2009 Westpac Stadium, Wellington 14 – 10 New Zealand 2009 mid-year rugby union tests BBC
13 June 2009 Carisbrook, Dunedin 22 – 27 France BBC
6 October 2007 Millennium Stadium, Cardiff, Wales 18 – 20 France 2007 Rugby World Cup BBC
9 June 2007 Westpac Stadium, Wellington 61 – 10 New Zealand 2007 mid-year rugby union tests BBC
2 June 2007 Eden Park, Auckland 42 – 11 New Zealand TG
18 November 2006 Stade de France, Saint-Denis 11 – 23 New Zealand 2006 end of year rugby union tests BBC
11 November 2006 Stade de Gerland, Lyon 3 – 47 New Zealand BBC
27 November 2004 Stade de France, Saint-Denis 6 – 45 New Zealand 2004 end of year rugby union tests BBC
20 November 2003 Stadium Australia, Sydney, Australia 40 – 13 New Zealand 2003 Rugby World Cup BBC
28 June 2003 Jade Stadium, Christchurch 31 – 23 New Zealand 2003 French tour BBC
16 November 2002 Stade de France, Saint-Denis 20 – 20 draw 2002 New Zealand tour of Europe BBC
30 June 2001 WestpacTrust Stadium, Wellington 37 – 12 New Zealand 2001 French tour BBC
18 November 2000 Stade Vélodrome, Marseilles 42 – 33 France 2000 end of year test BBC
11 November 2000 Stade de France, Saint-Denis 26 – 39 New Zealand


Ireland 15 Games, NZ won 14, Ireland won 1

5 November 2016 Soldier Field, Chicago, United States 40 – 29 Ireland
24 November 2013 Aviva Stadium, Dublin 22 – 24 New Zealand 2013 Autumn International
23 June 2012 Waikato Stadium, Hamilton 60 – 0 New Zealand 2012 Irish tour of New Zealand
16 June 2012 Rugby League Park, Christchurch 22 – 19 New Zealand
9 June 2012 Eden Park, Auckland 42 – 10 New Zealand
20 November 2010 Aviva Stadium, Dublin 18 – 38 New Zealand 2010 Autumn International
12 June 2010 Yarrow Stadium, New Plymouth 66 – 28 New Zealand 2010 Irish tour
15 November 2008 Croke Park, Dublin 3 – 22 New Zealand 2008 Autumn International
7 June 2008 Westpac Stadium, Wellington 21 – 11 New Zealand 2008 Irish tour
17 June 2006 Eden Park, Auckland 27 – 17 New Zealand 2006 Irish tour
10 June 2006 Waikato Stadium, Hamilton 34 – 23 New Zealand
12 November 2005 Lansdowne Road, Dublin 7 – 45 New Zealand 2005 All Blacks grand slam tour
22 June 2002 Eden Park, Auckland 40 – 8 New Zealand 2002 Irish tour of New Zealand
15 June 2002 Carisbrook, Dunedin 15 – 6 New Zealand
17 November 2001 Lansdowne Road, Dublin 29 – 40 New Zealand


Italy 9 Games. NZ won 9.
12 November 2016 Stadio Olimpico, Rome 10 – 68 New Zealand 2016 end-of-year internationals
17 November 2012 Stadio Olimpico, Rome 10 – 42 New Zealand 2012 end-of-year internationals
14 November 2009 San Siro Stadium, Milan 6 – 20 New Zealand 2009 end-of-year internationals
27 June 2009 AMI Stadium, Christchurch 27 – 6 New Zealand 2009 mid-year internationals
8 September 2007 Stade Vélodrome, Marseille 76 – 14 New Zealand 2007 Rugby World Cup
13 November 2004 Stadio Flaminio, Rome 10 – 59 New Zealand 2004 end-of-year internationals
11 October 2003 Colonial Stadium, Melbourne, Australia 70 – 7 New Zealand 2003 Rugby World Cup
8 June 2002 Waikato Stadium, Hamilton 64 – 10 New Zealand 2002 Italy rugby union tour
25 November 2000 Stadio Luigi Ferraris, Genoa 19 – 56 New Zealand 2000 end-of-year internationals

Scotland 9 Games. NZ won 9

15 November 2014 Murrayfield, Edinburgh 16 – 24 New Zealand 2014 Autumn International
11 November 2012 Murrayfield, Edinburgh 22 – 51 New Zealand 2012 Autumn International
13 November 2010 Murrayfield, Edinburgh 3 – 49 New Zealand 2010 end of year rugby tests
8 November 2008 Murrayfield, Edinburgh 6 – 32 New Zealand 2008 end of year rugby tests
23 September 2007 Murrayfield, Edinburgh 0 – 40 New Zealand 2007 Rugby World Cup Pool Match
26 November 2005 Murrayfield, Edinburgh 10 – 29 New Zealand 2005 end of year rugby union tests
24 November 2001 Murrayfield, Edinburgh 6 – 37 New Zealand
1 July 2000 Eden Park, Auckland 48 – 14 New Zealand 2000 Scotland rugby union tour of New Zealand
24 June 2000 Carisbrook, Dunedin 69 – 20 New Zealand

Wales 16 Games. NZ won 16.

25 June 2016 Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin 46 – 6 New Zealand Welsh tour of New Zealand
18 June 2016 Westpac Stadium, Wellington 36 – 22 New Zealand
11 June 2016 Eden Park, Auckland 39 – 21 New Zealand
22 November 2014 Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 16 – 34 New Zealand 2014 Autumn International
24 November 2012 Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 10 – 33 New Zealand 2012 Autumn International
27 November 2010 Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 25 – 37 New Zealand 2010 Autumn International BBC
26 June 2010 Waikato Stadium, Hamilton 29 – 10 New Zealand 2010 mid-year rugby test series
19 June 2010 Carisbrook, Dunedin 42 – 9 New Zealand Stuff
7 November 2009 Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 12 – 19 New Zealand 2009 Autumn International BBC
22 November 2008 Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 9 – 29 New Zealand 2008 Autumn International BBC
25 November 2006 Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 10 – 45 New Zealand 2006 Autumn International BBC
5 November 2005 Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 3 – 41 New Zealand 2005 Autumn International BBC
20 November 2004 Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 25 – 26 New Zealand 2004 Autumn International BBC
2 November 2003 Stadium Australia, Sydney, Australia 53 – 37 New Zealand 2003 Rugby World Cup BBC
23 June 2003 Waikato Stadium, Hamilton 55 – 3 New Zealand 2003 Wales rugby union tour of Australasia
23 November 2002 Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 17 – 43 New Zealand 2002 Autumn International

By popular request:

Foreign-born, "English" players* this year:
Four New Zealanders - Hartley, Harrison, Te'o and M. Vunipola
Two Fijians: Rokoduguni and Hughes
One Aussie: B. Vunipola
One St Lucian: Yarde

8/34=23.5%


*By which I mean players named in the EPS for this year (Source: Wikipedia)

Lizard wrote:By popular request:

Foreign-born, "English" players* this year:
Four New Zealanders - Hartley, Harrison, Te'o and M. Vunipola
Two Fijians: Rokoduguni and Hughes
One Aussie: B. Vunipola
One St Lucian: Yarde

8/34=23.5%


*By which I mean players named in the EPS for this year (Source: Wikipedia)

Disgraceful.

Of the 14 teams that competed in the 2013 RLWC, 72% of the players were from England or Australia including whole teams (bar Eng and Aus) in some cases.
None of the current Scotland RL team in the current tournament are Scottish (apparently).

Please do not sully my thread with the criminal code.

Which Tyler wrote:Of the 14 teams that competed in the 2013 RLWC, 72% of the players were from England or Australia including whole teams (bar Eng and Aus) in some cases.
None of the current Scotland RL team in the current tournament are Scottish (apparently).

Was the Lebanese team of Sydney kebab shop-owners there again??

The Boks are keeping us busy with this one.

rowan wrote:Of the 4 World Cup-winning nations, we find New Zealand has still lost to the least amount of opposing national teams (6), England just two more with 8, South Africa dropped to third last year with 9, and Australia is a distant 4th with 11. Also, only 4 nations, SA, Australia, England & France have ever beaten the All Blacks in NZ.

NZ has lost to: Australia 42 times, SA 35, France 12, England 7, Wales 3 & Ireland once.
England has lost to Wales 57 times, Ireland 47, Scotland 42, France 39, NZ 32, Australia 25, SA 23 and Argentina 4 times.
SA has lost to NZ 55 times, Australia 36, England 12, France 11, Ireland 6, Scotland 5, Wales & Argentina twice each, & Japan once.
Australia has lost to NZ 109 times, SA 46, England 21, France 18, Wales & Ireland 10 each, Scotland 9, Argentina 5, Fiji twice & Samoa and Tonga once apiece.

South Africa has now lost to 10 (prior to last year they had never lost to a team outside of the 8 foundation members of the IRB), with today's defeat by Italy...

It was Italy's first ever win against a former RWC-winner.

First wins v. South Africa by nation:

New Zealand 1921
Australia 1933
France 1958
Ireland 1965
Scotland 1965
England 1969
Wales 1999
Argentina 2015
Japan 2015
Italy 2016

So this might be their worst period, relatively speaking, since the mid 60s when they suffered first-up losses to Ireland & Scotland, while also going down to France for a second time, and losing away series' to Australia 0-2 and NZ 1-3. They bounced back from that, however. Can they do so again?

This from a friend of mine who is involved with Canadian rugby:

"10 countries (9 ranked in the top 10 men's world ratings) have 3 votes each for a total of 30 out of 43 votes representing 70% of the voting power . These same 10 counties also have 9 members on the World Rugby executive committee.
The total rugby players in these 10 counties according to World Rugby published figures is 4,245,715 players (England having 2,057,797 of that total which equates to 35% of all total global rugby playing population) out of a total 7,230,391 which in turn represents 59% of the total .
There are 1,766,000 female rugby players globally representing a 25% of the total.
All 32 voting members World Rugby Council listed on their web page and the 10 executive board members are male.
30% of of players in the last men's Rugby World Cup were of Island extraction yet they have no voting power on the World Rugby board.The All Blacks World Cup squad of 31 alone has nine players (Waisake Naholo, Julian Savea, Malakai Fekitoa, Sonny Bill Williams, Ma’a Nonu, Victor Vito, Jerome Kaino, Keven Mealamu, Charlie Faumuina) who have Polynesian roots.
25% of all rugby players gonbally are female yet they have no voting members ( total of 43 votes) on the World Rugby board.
Looking into the history of the members of the World Rugby council there does not appear to by many with a rugby 7's background.
World Rugby Men's Rankings - # Of Registered Players - # of total players - (# Of Votes On World Rugby Board Of A Total Of 43 ) - *# Of Members on World Rugby Executive Council
-------------------------------------
1 New Zealand - 148,483 - 148,483 - (3) - *1
2 England - 340,347 - 2,057,797 - (3) - *1
3 Australia - 230,663 - 615,809 - (3) - *2
4 South Africa - 342,316 - 418,501 - (3) - 0
5 Wales - 73,444 - 73,444 - (3) - *1
6 Ireland - 96,880 - 172,491 - (3) - *1
7 Scotland - 49,305 - 164,231 - (3) -*1
8 Argentina - 56,998 - 133,062 - (3) - *1
9 France - 291,202 - 383,757 - (3) - *1
10 Georgia - 7,313 - 7394 - (1)
11 Fiji - 65,980 - 148,843 - (0)
12 Japan - 107,673 - 115,223 - (1)
13 Italy - 82,143 - 82,143 - (3)
14 Samoa - 20,845 - 20,845 - (0)
15 Tonga - 13,968 - 43,366 - (0)
16 United States - 110,185 - 1,449,389 - (1) - *1
17 Romania - 7,605 - 14,525 - (1)
18 Canada - 26,883 - 132,469 - (1)
19 Namibia - 11,610 - 11,850 - 0)
20 Uraguay - 6,085 - 92,069 - (0)
21 Russia - 23,800 - 31,398 - (0)
23 Spain - 30,531 - 53,687 - (0)
34 Zimbabwe - 22, 685 - 33,935 - (0)
45 Madagascar - 22,450 - 27.822 - (0)
48 Malaysia - 50,103 -55,103 - (0)
49 Sri Lanka - 47,071- 74,099 - (0)"

Kiss me if I'm wrong, but haven't Georgia now gone 5 straight games against Pacific Island opposition without defeat, including their actual tour of the Pacific Islands earlier this year when they beat Fiji & Tonga and drew with Samoa? I think a few of the tier 1 nations would struggle to match that...

rowan wrote:Kiss me if I'm wrong, but haven't Georgia now gone 5 straight games against Pacific Island opposition without defeat, including their actual tour of the Pacific Islands earlier this year when they beat Fiji & Tonga and drew with Samoa? I think a few of the tier 1 nations would struggle to match that...

Ok, let's do this...

Records* v Fiji, Tonga, Samoa & PIRA
New Zealand: Played 17, won 17, 100% (1987-2015)
England: Played 17, won 17, 100% (1988-2016)
South Africa: Played 15, won 15, 100% (1995-2015)
Ireland: Played 12, won 11, lost 1, 91.7% (1987-2013), longest undefeated streak 8* (2001-)
France: Played 19, won 17, lost 2, 89.5% (1964-2016), longest streak 8 (1999-2010)
Australia: Played 30, won 25, lost 4, drawn 1, 85% (1952-2015), longest streak 18 (1976-2010)
Scotland: Played 21, won 17, lost 3, drawn 1, 83.3% (1985-2015), longest streak 12 (1999-2012)
Wales: Played 28, won 22, lost 5, drawn 1, 80.4% (1952-2015), longest streak 6 (1985-88 & 2000-2006)
Georgia: Played 11, won 6, lost 4, drawn 1, 59.1% (1952-2015), longest streak 3 (2016)
Argentina: Played 9, won 5, lost 4, 55.6% (1980-2015), longest streak 2 (1980 & 1999-2003)
Romania: Played 6, won 3, lost 3, 50% (1989-2015), longest streak 2 (1989-91)
Italy: Played 21, won 10, lost 11, 47.6% (1987-2014), longest streak 3 (2003-05 & 2009-12)
Canada: Played 23, won 8, lost 15, 34.8% (1970-2015), longest streak 3 (1987-95)
Japan: Played 47, won 14, lost 33, 29.8% (1990-2015), longest streak 2 (several times)
USA: Played 20, won 2, lost 18, 10% (1998-2016), longest streak 2 (1998)
Namibia: Played 6, lost 6, 0% (1997-2015)

You would have to say that Georgia is ranked about where you would expect. Argentina sit a little lower than you might expect although that is an artifact of them playing the Island teams from an earlier time when they were not as strong as they are now. Only Georgia includes a draw in its longest undefeated streak.

*Minimum of 6 tests, RWC qualifiers only

So Georgia is the best of World Rugby's non-foundation member unions, and also ahead of two current first tier nations. But we still can't get a tier 1 nation to go to Georgia and play them. Thanks, Lizard. Most edifying...

It's a shame Tbilisi doesn't have a riviera and a few Michelin stars.

Playing Scotland in the November window is a good step but you're right. They've earned it.

2016 Ireland are the first NH team since 2003 England to defeat each of Australia, New Zealand and South Africa in a calendar year.

Regrettably it became glaringly obvious this weekend that the Rugby Championship teams and also Japan were past their use-by date for the season. These tours are good for the coffers but that's about all. Two years ago pretty much the same happened, with Australia losing three games on tour & SA 2, while NZ struggled in a couple. There was the usual talk about the tables being turned and the gap being closed, and even bold forecasts of an England v Ireland World Cup final. But in the event it was an all-Southern Hemisphere semis, and that's what fans will remember in a decade's time; not the Autumn tours. This isn't sour grapes. It's just keeping things in perspective.

Same thing can be said about the summer tour. France usualy sends a B team to those.

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I've never denied that. I guess the effects just aren't as remarkable because we're used to seeing Southern Hemisphere teams roll their northern counterparts. There was a time, back in the nineties, when 5 Nations teams were being criticized for not taking the spring tours seriously enough and getting hammered by cricket scores. Since then they've appeared to take them more seriously. & of course, for the northerners it's a huge challenge and a crucial learning experience. You only develop by playing teams which are stronger than you. So, with all due respect, the Southern Hemsiphere doesn't receive quite the same benefit from their Autumn tours - even though England at Twickers has always been a pretty tough assignment.

It has been an interesting set of results. I wouldn't suggest that the touring sides haven't taken it seriously. NZ was defending a record winning streak and quite severely embarrassed themselves by being the first All Blacks to lose to Ireland. Aussie have duffed a grand slam that would have gone a long way toward erasing the shame of their home series loss v England and mediocre RC. South Africa are fucking shambles but I'm sure their fans are livid at losing not only to a desperately uninspiring Wales but to an Italy that couldn't even contain Tonga.

No denying that either, but the major underlying factor is very clear. It's been a long, gruelling season and at the end of the day there is nothing tangible riding on the AIs. Meanwhile, the Pumas have already stated fatigue has been a factor for them on tour.

rowan wrote:No denying that either, but the major underlying factor is very clear. It's been a long, gruelling season and at the end of the day there is nothing tangible riding on the AIs. Meanwhile, the Pumas have already stated fatigue has been a factor for them on tour.

The SH season is neither particularly long nor gruelling. Lumping in the Japanese with that as an excuse exposes it as entirely hollow.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

rowan wrote:No denying that either, but the major underlying factor is very clear. It's been a long, gruelling season and at the end of the day there is nothing tangible riding on the AIs. Meanwhile, the Pumas have already stated fatigue has been a factor for them on tour.

The SH season is neither particularly long nor gruelling. Lumping in the Japanese with that as an excuse exposes it as entirely hollow.

What a foolish comment to make. Of course the Southern Hemsiphere season is long and gruelling. Super Rugby involves 16 rounds - plus three rounds of playoffs - at roughly the same level as the 6 Nations. The Rugby Championship is something else again. The last World Cup should have given you some indication of just how tough it is. & they play two rounds, which actually means one more game than the 6 Nations per team - and there are no 'Italy's to take a soft landing on either. & then you've got to look at how much travelling this entails. As for Japan, that's hardly integral to the issue, but I had the misfortune of watching them yesterday and it was the worst Japanese performance I've seen in a very long time. So I'm suggesting it had something to do with their schedule this year as well, but I'm not really any expert on Japanese rugby; perhaps they just went through a time warp back to the 90s or someting But dismissing the fatigue factor of the AIs is merely to display one's ignorance of the broader issue. As mentioned, one of the teams has already stated this was a factor themselves, the stats back it up completely, and I'm sure they're in a slightly better position to judge this than either you or I are.

I think these Autumn games have shown there is not as big a gap between the NH and SH sides as there perhaps was in 2015. Ireland and England in particular look sharp, France would also appear to be on the rise. Good stuff, looking forward to an entertaining Six Nations with some quality rugby on display.

That might be a wind-up, but it's precisely the kind of comment Northern Hemisphere fans, scribes and pundits have been making for about as long as I've been following rugby (40 or so years), at every opportunity, but when it comes to the crunch the gap only seems to be getting wider. It's 7 World Cups to 1. The last semi-finals featured 4 Southern Hemisphere teams. England won the tournament in 2003 and everyone in the Northern Hemisphere claimed the tables had turned and the best teams were in Europe - completely ignoring their collective failings against the All Blacks in particular. But, guess what, the Southern Hemisphere has won the last three World Cups, to add to the first three, and last year finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th - in Europe!! It doesn't get any more comprehensive that that. Needless to add, a European team hasn't topped the rankings during that time either. But every Autumn the sacrifice is made to the almighty golden cash cow, wearied bodies are marched north, and we get this nonsense again. An Ireland v England World Cup final, they said . The Aussies had no scrum, they said . The Boks were falling apart due to political interference, they said...

No wind up, England, Ireland and France are playing good rugby. With the exception of Ireland, they weren't in 2015. Ebs and flows.

J Dory wrote:No wind up, England, Ireland and France are playing good rugby. With the exception of Ireland, they weren't in 2015. Ebs and flows.

I think if England played the AB's next weekend they'd win. This time next year who knows? Jones has England strutting round like the "arrogant" England of old, they're far from the finished product mind. AB's are still top dogs but England and Ireland are catching them up at the moment. Next few years are gonna be interesting times in rugby.