RugbyRebels

Lovely try from Langdon. Ibitoye and Pollock doing some good work in the build up. End to end stuff.

Insouciant wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:15 pm Lovely try from Langdon. Ibitoye and Pollock doing some good work in the build up. End to end stuff.

Carpenter did well to get the ball to Ibitoye, as well. I think he’s impressed. Brilliant open side work from Pollock.

Some good forward play for that try. Lots of powerful carrying with intent, yards made etc. England starting to click and show some dominance.

I don’t know if Fin Smith has been earmarked for Japan already but it’s a shame not to have seen him today.

Hopefully Willis and Dingwall get a chance to carry this performance over to Japan. Both very impressive.

Porter generally good, but a few Youngs-esque ‘lift, tuck and pass’ moves in there.

Is that Dingwall who has just thrown a belter for Murley’s second?

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:38 pm I don’t know if Fin Smith has been earmarked for Japan already but it’s a shame not to have seen him today.

Hopefully Willis and Dingwall get a chance to carry this performance over to Japan. Both very impressive.

Porter generally good, but a few Youngs-esque ‘lift, tuck and pass’ moves in there.

Is that Dingwall who has just thrown a belter for Murley’s second?

For the pass I thought the commentary team said McParland no. 21, although I thought I read 22, albeit from a distance, which would be Shilcock. Will have to see it again. Great pass though whoever threw it.

Most importantly… we see what happens when the forward replacements have a POSITIVE impact!

Pollock, Willis, Dingers, Beard* and Carpenter all impressed for me. Porter didn’t soil his shorts so should automatically leap to second choice behind Mitchell.
*I had never understood the fuss but he was v good today, imo.

Insouciant wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:42 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:38 pm I don’t know if Fin Smith has been earmarked for Japan already but it’s a shame not to have seen him today.

Hopefully Willis and Dingwall get a chance to carry this performance over to Japan. Both very impressive.

Porter generally good, but a few Youngs-esque ‘lift, tuck and pass’ moves in there.

Is that Dingwall who has just thrown a belter for Murley’s second?

For the pass I thought the commentary team said McParland no. 21, although I thought I read 22, albeit from a distance, which would be Shilcock. Will have to see it again. Great pass though whoever threw it.

Was def Shilcock.

Turned into a decent victory in the end. The second half was much more coherent than the first from England. There's a ton of good back row players in the England set up. Pollock (19 yrs) gets motm. Some of the young props look like absolute units too.

Find Dingwall a strange player- didn’t all of Saints put on a load of weight last summer to help them in contact? Feel like Dingwall should at least be aiming to be close to 16 stone for the role he plays. I know it’s not everything but he has looked unpowered the times I’ve seen him at top level.

Porter, Heyes and Willis should all be brought into the main squad now. Show people that bad performances and good performances have consequences.

Muir could really benefit from new laws given his kick chase.

Beard is underrated I think. Younger than j thought too.

Pollock, AOF and Fasogbon really exciting.

pjm1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:42 pm Most importantly… we see what happens when the forward replacements have a POSITIVE impact!

Yes, so much this. Players like Langdon and Fisilau came on and actually added something.

The bench/replacements are a weapon these days. England's bench choices for the first XV have not been impact players. They are the type of players you start because you believe in them, or you don't pick them at all. Hopefully Stodgy Benchman finally realises the error of his ways.

Funny old game isn’t it. I thought Dingwall carried well in traffic and AOF looked underpowered when carrying!

Beard is a funny one. I really didn’t see him as England contender when he first appeared. I thought he was fairly average but could get by on being very physical and committed at club level. He’s improving all the time though.

He’s not huge but he really punches his weight and keeps adding to his attacking game. Some great offloads today.

Scrappy but fun. The 20s lads all impressed. Pollock just rises to every environment you put him in. I’d cap him against Japan. AOF and Fasogbon both looking the nuts in the right.

Otherwise same names everyone has already called out. Add in Fisilau who made a proper impact off the bench!

Beard reminds me of Tompkins a little, great for club, but don’t see him having a major impact at international level at all.

Willis, Pollock, Porter all deserve the chance to play against Japan next week. Would love Borthwick to throw caution to the wind and pick AOF and Fasogbon as well, both are well capable.

Heyes is worth Cole’s bench spot also

Match highlights are on YT already - https://youtu.be/fMKfIt-rP6Q?si=KYFT5HxTY5BJJlIF

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:45 pm Find Dingwall a strange player

...it is very strange for an England centre to have...centre skills, I agree . He did put on about a stone last summer- more weight and he'd lose pace (and that's his real missing piece for me, so losing more...) and likely agility, which is one of the ways he gets over the gainline. He's an excellent distributor, decision maker and drift defender.....whether its enough to bed in internationally is another question.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:29 pm

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:45 pm Find Dingwall a strange player

...it is very strange for an England centre to have...centre skills, I agree . He did put on about a stone last summer- more weight and he'd lose pace (and that's his real missing piece for me, so losing more...) and likely agility, which is one of the ways he gets over the gainline. He's an excellent distributor, decision maker and drift defender.....whether its enough to bed in internationally is another question.

I just don't think he has the physical attributes to be a really top operator at international level for England. So many of the best Intl Centres now are such athletes and I don't think he's in the top tier of those.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:35 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:29 pm

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:45 pm Find Dingwall a strange player

...it is very strange for an England centre to have...centre skills, I agree . He did put on about a stone last summer- more weight and he'd lose pace (and that's his real missing piece for me, so losing more...) and likely agility, which is one of the ways he gets over the gainline. He's an excellent distributor, decision maker and drift defender.....whether its enough to bed in internationally is another question.

I just don't think he has the physical attributes to be a really top operator at international level for England. So many of the best Intl Centres now are such athletes and I don't think he's in the top tier of those.

I’m generally in this boat too, but going just on what we’ve seen this weekend he showed both good skills and some fight/determination in to contact.

Lawrence is obviously brilliant at the latter but often lacks the skills/control to make the most of it. Slade is supposedly a defensive maestro and slick distributor, but never seems to be on the same wavelength as everyone else.

Assuming Dingwall is still next in line at 12 I think he’d be worth a go. Seems like he has a great head for the game, but I do share the doubts he’s got that extra USP. Might as well find out though.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:43 pm

TheDasher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:35 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:29 pm

...it is very strange for an England centre to have...centre skills, I agree . He did put on about a stone last summer- more weight and he'd lose pace (and that's his real missing piece for me, so losing more...) and likely agility, which is one of the ways he gets over the gainline. He's an excellent distributor, decision maker and drift defender.....whether its enough to bed in internationally is another question.

I just don't think he has the physical attributes to be a really top operator at international level for England. So many of the best Intl Centres now are such athletes and I don't think he's in the top tier of those.

I’m generally in this boat too, but going just on what we’ve seen this weekend he showed both good skills and some fight/determination in to contact.

Lawrence is obviously brilliant at the latter but often lacks the skills/control to make the most of it. Slade is supposedly a defensive maestro and slick distributor, but never seems to be on the same wavelength as everyone else.

Assuming Dingwall is still next in line at 12 I think he’d be worth a go. Seems like he has a great head for the game, but I do share the doubts he’s got that extra USP. Might as well find out though.

Slade I'd leave out of the conversation, he's been average for so long, god only knows why he still plays for England. He has one good game in perhaps 6 and then is kept on. He isn't up to it.

Lawrence we've all discussed so much... played so much for England at 12 but 13 at Bath etc. I'd say he still has a future with England... I think there's a lot there to work with personally.

We've seen Dingwall briefly for England... Like so many, he didn't get a fair crack of the whip. I'd say that many here are hoping that Will Butt, Olly Hartley etc come through at some stage.

In the short term I'd play Lawrence and Freeman against Japan/from those in the squad.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:35 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:29 pm

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:45 pm Find Dingwall a strange player

...it is very strange for an England centre to have...centre skills, I agree . He did put on about a stone last summer- more weight and he'd lose pace (and that's his real missing piece for me, so losing more...) and likely agility, which is one of the ways he gets over the gainline. He's an excellent distributor, decision maker and drift defender.....whether its enough to bed in internationally is another question.

I just don't think he has the physical attributes to be a really top operator at international level for England. So many of the best Intl Centres now are such athletes and I don't think he's in the top tier of those.

Think that's what I implied on pace. But we seem quite happy to play others who aren't up to it in other positions to find out. Our current centres are pants.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:43 pm

TheDasher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:35 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:29 pm

...it is very strange for an England centre to have...centre skills, I agree . He did put on about a stone last summer- more weight and he'd lose pace (and that's his real missing piece for me, so losing more...) and likely agility, which is one of the ways he gets over the gainline. He's an excellent distributor, decision maker and drift defender.....whether its enough to bed in internationally is another question.

I just don't think he has the physical attributes to be a really top operator at international level for England. So many of the best Intl Centres now are such athletes and I don't think he's in the top tier of those.

I’m generally in this boat too, but going just on what we’ve seen this weekend he showed both good skills and some fight/determination in to contact.

Lawrence is obviously brilliant at the latter but often lacks the skills/control to make the most of it. Slade is supposedly a defensive maestro and slick distributor, but never seems to be on the same wavelength as everyone else.

Assuming Dingwall is still next in line at 12 I think he’d be worth a go. Seems like he has a great head for the game, but I do share the doubts he’s got that extra USP. Might as well find out though.

quite.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:54 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:43 pm

TheDasher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:35 pm

I just don't think he has the physical attributes to be a really top operator at international level for England. So many of the best Intl Centres now are such athletes and I don't think he's in the top tier of those.

I’m generally in this boat too, but going just on what we’ve seen this weekend he showed both good skills and some fight/determination in to contact.

Lawrence is obviously brilliant at the latter but often lacks the skills/control to make the most of it. Slade is supposedly a defensive maestro and slick distributor, but never seems to be on the same wavelength as everyone else.

Assuming Dingwall is still next in line at 12 I think he’d be worth a go. Seems like he has a great head for the game, but I do share the doubts he’s got that extra USP. Might as well find out though.

Slade I'd leave out of the conversation, he's been average for so long, god only knows why he still plays for England. He has one good game in perhaps 6 and then is kept on. He isn't up to it.

Lawrence we've all discussed so much... played so much for England at 12 but 13 at Bath etc. I'd say he still has a future with England... I think there's a lot there to work with personally.

We've seen Dingwall briefly for England... Like so many, he didn't get a fair crack of the whip. I'd say that many here are hoping that Will Butt, Olly Hartley etc come through at some stage.

In the short term I'd play Lawrence and Freeman against Japan/from those in the squad.

so again play a 13 at 12 and someone who only occasionally plays 13 outside him. Genius . Only kidding, but its kind of odd not giving people their best shot by playing in their best positions.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:57 pm

TheDasher wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:54 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:43 pm

I’m generally in this boat too, but going just on what we’ve seen this weekend he showed both good skills and some fight/determination in to contact.

Lawrence is obviously brilliant at the latter but often lacks the skills/control to make the most of it. Slade is supposedly a defensive maestro and slick distributor, but never seems to be on the same wavelength as everyone else.

Assuming Dingwall is still next in line at 12 I think he’d be worth a go. Seems like he has a great head for the game, but I do share the doubts he’s got that extra USP. Might as well find out though.

Slade I'd leave out of the conversation, he's been average for so long, god only knows why he still plays for England. He has one good game in perhaps 6 and then is kept on. He isn't up to it.

Lawrence we've all discussed so much... played so much for England at 12 but 13 at Bath etc. I'd say he still has a future with England... I think there's a lot there to work with personally.

We've seen Dingwall briefly for England... Like so many, he didn't get a fair crack of the whip. I'd say that many here are hoping that Will Butt, Olly Hartley etc come through at some stage.

In the short term I'd play Lawrence and Freeman against Japan/from those in the squad.

so again play a 13 at 12 and someone who only occasionally plays 13 outside him. Genius . Only kidding, but its kind of odd not giving people their best shot by playing in their best positions.

I know you're kidding but to counter it

Lawrence has played at 12 quite a lot for England, nothing that new for him there and we have one game left in this series and can only pick (as far as I understand) from SB's chosen squad. Freeman has as you know played quite a few times at 13 in his career so it's not massively new for him either. To me he looks absolutely like a 13 anyway I have to say... I've said it before, with his step, balance, skills and size, I think you want Freeman with the ball in his hands more often that he has it on the wing for England. I think Freeman at 13 in the oppo 22 would cause defences a lot of problems. I don't think he has out and out intl winger gas either. So there you are, I'd go all SCW and back my convictions and stick him where I think he'd be better.

I hasten to add that on the base of what Dingwall has done in an England shirt before, the likes of Ireland, NZ, SA etc might prefer to see him at 12 than Lawrence to be honest.