RugbyRebels

Poor Buttler having (wk) after his name 5 times in the series, playing every game and not getting the gloves on yet.Agreed with above despite not looking a particularly good team, it has got more shape about it than when starting out.The view then was even if the team was shyte, we had enough lethal quickies who could bowl them out on favourable tracks.

Pos: Archer, Broad, Burns, Denley, Stokes, Leach
Meh: Root (batsman), Bairstow, Buttler, Woakes, Overton
Neg.: Root (capt.), Roy, Anderson, Moeen
n/a: Curran

Galfon wrote:Poor Buttler having (wk) after his name 5 times in the series, playing every game and not getting the gloves on yet.Agreed with above despite not looking a particularly good team, it has got more shape about it than when starting out.The view then was even if the team was shyte, we had enough lethal quickies who could bowl them out on favourable tracks.

Pos: Archer, Broad, Burns, Denley, Stokes, Leach
Meh: Root (batsman), Bairstow, Buttler, Woakes, Overton
Neg.: Root (capt.), Roy, Anderson, Moeen
n/a: Curran

I don't know I'd count Leach as a positive. I mean, he's a better batter than most of our middle order, but his bowling has been mostly inoffensive, which is really what he's being picked on.

Puja

Is it me getting older, or is there a general sense of people feeling they've never worried less about losing an Ashes series?

Digby wrote:Is it me getting older, or is there a general sense of people feeling they've never worried less about losing an Ashes series?

I'm more upset about losing the Ashes than I am happy about winning the (cricket) world cup. I don't have nearly as much time for one day or 20:20 - candy floss stuff that removes all the tension and tactics in favour of doing lots of crowd pleasing stuff. It's like 7s, or league to a lesser extent.

Sadly, I can only see test cricket getting more and more run down, as it's not where the money is.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:Is it me getting older, or is there a general sense of people feeling they've never worried less about losing an Ashes series?

I'm more upset about losing the Ashes than I am happy about winning the (cricket) world cup. I don't have nearly as much time for one day or 20:20 - candy floss stuff that removes all the tension and tactics in favour of doing lots of crowd pleasing stuff. It's like 7s, or league to a lesser extent.

Sadly, I can only see test cricket getting more and more run down, as it's not where the money is.

Puja

The WC final was a moment of sporting gold, though.

Incredible.

But then Headingly was the same.

I enjoyed the WC and was thrilled by England winning. The final was sport at its finest.

Truth is we're not a particularly good test team, lacking consistently effective performers and with glaring weaknesses in the top order. That may take some time to turn around.

Galfon wrote:Poor Buttler having (wk) after his name 5 times in the series, playing every game and not getting the gloves on yet.Agreed with above despite not looking a particularly good team, it has got more shape about it than when starting out.The view then was even if the team was shyte, we had enough lethal quickies who could bowl them out on favourable tracks.

Pos: Archer, Broad, Burns, Denley, Stokes, Leach
Meh: Root (batsman), Bairstow, Buttler, Woakes, Overton
Neg.: Root (capt.), Roy, Anderson, Moeen
n/a: Curran

Positive: Archer, Burns, Broad and Stokes
Meh: Woakes, Overton
Poor: the rest.

Granted England were potentially robbed a win at Lords but if not for a once in a generation, world class innings by Stokes at Headingly England would have been hammered in 3 of the 4 tests so far.

Digby wrote:Is it me getting older, or is there a general sense of people feeling they've never worried less about losing an Ashes series?

we haven't lost it yet and I have been very worried, I can hardly bear to watch us batting.

Big D wrote:

Galfon wrote:Poor Buttler having (wk) after his name 5 times in the series, playing every game and not getting the gloves on yet.Agreed with above despite not looking a particularly good team, it has got more shape about it than when starting out.The view then was even if the team was shyte, we had enough lethal quickies who could bowl them out on favourable tracks.

Pos: Archer, Broad, Burns, Denley, Stokes, Leach
Meh: Root (batsman), Bairstow, Buttler, Woakes, Overton
Neg.: Root (capt.), Roy, Anderson, Moeen
n/a: Curran

Positive: Archer, Burns, Broad and Stokes
Meh: Woakes, Overton
Poor: the rest.

Granted England were potentially robbed a win at Lords but if not for a once in a generation, world class innings by Stokes at Headingly England would have been hammered in 3 of the 4 tests so far.

Yep. Though Overton's meh is a bit begrudging from me

Digby wrote:Is it me getting older, or is there a general sense of people feeling they've never worried less about losing an Ashes series?

Absolutely hooked and am/will be gutted about losing Ashes.

Just love to see the likes of Sibley & Foakes given a go

pretty long tail now, and a bit dibbly dobblt sans Stokes.

England team for fifth Ashes Test: Joe Root (c), Jofra Archer, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Stuart Broad, Rory Burns, Jos Buttler, Sam Curran, Joe Denly, Jack Leach, Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes

Burns
Denly
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Woakes
Curran
Archer
Leach
Broad

Banquo wrote:pretty long tail now, and a bit dibbly dobblt sans Stokes.

England team for fifth Ashes Test: Joe Root (c), Jofra Archer, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Stuart Broad, Rory Burns, Jos Buttler, Sam Curran, Joe Denly, Jack Leach, Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes

Burns
Denly
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Woakes
Curran
Archer
Leach
Broad

I imagine one of Bairstow or Buttler will come in at 4...but which?

Has to be Bairstow, really...but I'm not sure I trust him there when he has the gloves.

It's not a long tail when you consider Woakes and Curran both have higher averages that Roy...

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:pretty long tail now, and a bit dibbly dobblt sans Stokes.

England team for fifth Ashes Test: Joe Root (c), Jofra Archer, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Stuart Broad, Rory Burns, Jos Buttler, Sam Curran, Joe Denly, Jack Leach, Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes

Burns
Denly
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Woakes
Curran
Archer
Leach
Broad

I imagine one of Bairstow or Buttler will come in at 4...but which?

Has to be Bairstow, really...but I'm not sure I trust him there when he has the gloves.

It's not a long tail when you consider Woakes and Curran both have higher averages that Roy...

I'd like to see Curran developed as a batsman who can bowl, rather than the other way around. He's got decent technique and I'd be tempted to chuck him in at 6 and see what he can do with it.

Puja

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:pretty long tail now, and a bit dibbly dobblt sans Stokes.

England team for fifth Ashes Test: Joe Root (c), Jofra Archer, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Stuart Broad, Rory Burns, Jos Buttler, Sam Curran, Joe Denly, Jack Leach, Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes

Burns
Denly
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Woakes
Curran
Archer
Leach
Broad

I imagine one of Bairstow or Buttler will come in at 4...but which?

Has to be Bairstow, really...but I'm not sure I trust him there when he has the gloves.

It's not a long tail when you consider Woakes and Curran both have higher averages that Roy...

I'd maybe put Bairstow at 4 if he wasn't keeping and didn't keep getting bowled

Tallest dwarf argument on the tail; on the evidence of this series against the short ball, if Woakes is a test class 7, I'm a dutchman

Banquo wrote:

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:pretty long tail now, and a bit dibbly dobblt sans Stokes.

England team for fifth Ashes Test: Joe Root (c), Jofra Archer, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Stuart Broad, Rory Burns, Jos Buttler, Sam Curran, Joe Denly, Jack Leach, Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes

Burns
Denly
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Buttler
Woakes
Curran
Archer
Leach
Broad

I imagine one of Bairstow or Buttler will come in at 4...but which?

Has to be Bairstow, really...but I'm not sure I trust him there when he has the gloves.

It's not a long tail when you consider Woakes and Curran both have higher averages that Roy...

I'd maybe put Bairstow at 4 if he wasn't keeping and didn't keep getting bowled

Tallest dwarf argument on the tail; on the evidence of this series against the short ball, if Woakes is a test class 7, I'm a dutchman

I agree with all of that...

We really don't have much choice here. At least Aus have chosen a Marsh.

If Cummins also misses out, that gives England a real fighting chance against what will be the weakest Aussie bowling attack of the Ashes so far.

But only if Burns, Denly, Root and Stokes stand up and don't expose a tail longer than the actual batting order!!!

The Ashes are gone and our openers have finally found some resolve!

This is a groundbreaking opening stand. The stuff of legend.

Pardon?

I never promised you a rose garden

Cummins plays...and takes a wicket.

Aus have their best attack out there, plus Marsh...

Need Root and Burns to stick around and score some runs off everyone else, just leave Cummins

Denly, Bairstow, Buttler, Woakes and Leach arguably all need performances if they want to start the 1st test of the winter.

Big D wrote:Denly, Bairstow, Buttler, Woakes and Leach arguably all need performances if they want to start the 1st test of the winter.

Who do you bring in, though?

Sibley, Pope, Foakes, Anderson, Ali? Rashid? Bess?

Stom wrote:

Big D wrote:Denly, Bairstow, Buttler, Woakes and Leach arguably all need performances if they want to start the 1st test of the winter.

Who do you bring in, though?

Sibley, Pope, Foakes, Anderson, Ali? Rashid? Bess?

Sibley, Pope, Northeast, Foakes (even off of a bad trot), Anderson, Wood/Stone if fit, Leach probably has more time, but 4th innings here will be big for him (if it goes that far). With Woakes, it is more a reflection of the good options there are to come in.

To be honest I am not sure it really matters (within reason) who coming in to replace the batsmen. They have issues and aren't the answer. For Denly, Bairstow and Buttler it isn't just this series there is a pattern forming. Bairstow has been rotten (in terms of mode of dismissal) for a while and is averaging 29 under Roots captaincy which isn't good enough.

Eng need to capitalise on the resolve and good fortune shown. Anything less than a 2-2 must be taken as a fail for E Smith / Root.
The Oval tends to be pretty dead at Summer's end but who knows..

Which Tyler wrote:Pardon?

That was our best opening stand of the series!

ffs..
update - ditto. groundhog day - top order not building on solid starts.
5 gone - young Curran at the crease/away from the crease/back at the crease!....(just Cummins & goins..)