England vs Australia

[Mellsblue]

Just watched the replay of the final try. The OZ player had got outside the penultimate Eng defender. Smith didn’t have much choice but to bite in.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Absolutely agree on all points.

It's 5p's usual balanced assessment. We are talking about the RFU, remember. Has one single appointment since SCW measured up to expectation?

I know Banquo and others argue that our players aren't as good as claimed BUT I still believe it is the best batch since 2002. SB is NOT getting the best out of them and that simple conclusion should lead to an early ultimatum, IMO. Start winning and keep winning or fuck off.

As always, who are we replacing him with? He’s proved he can put a good team together if he has competent assistants. All he has at the moment is a part time skills coach, a brand new defence coach and the exception to the Peter Principle rule. He also has no head of S&C. Some of that is his own fault but we were looking good at the end of the 6N. That said, I wouldn’t argue with the idea that we looked good against Ireland and France through a combo of their complete shock that we had a dangerous backline and no/little time to prep for it.

For me Vesty and surround him with people like Fletcb, Walts and Rusty to help him navigate surrounded by true experience of coaching and also on pathway graduation / introduction.

But it wouldn’t happen anyway. There’s nobody at the RFU with a spine.

[Danno]

Was that in the much maligned Eddie Jones years?

We had that initial stint where Burt looked good

Four years under the rugby version of Heinrich Himmler.
The month is the 2007 World Cup between the SA matches. Desperate, I know. We won feck all of consequence under Lancaster.

'Kin hell. That is desperate

[Danno]

It's 5p's usual balanced assessment. We are talking about the RFU, remember. Has one single appointment since SCW measured up to expectation?

I know Banquo and others argue that our players aren't as good as claimed BUT I still believe it is the best batch since 2002. SB is NOT getting the best out of them and that simple conclusion should lead to an early ultimatum, IMO. Start winning and keep winning or fuck off.

As always, who are we replacing him with? He’s proved he can put a good team together if he has competent assistants. All he has at the moment is a part time skills coach, a brand new defence coach and the exception to the Peter Principle rule. He also has no head of S&C. Some of that is his own fault but we were looking good at the end of the 6N. That said, I wouldn’t argue with the idea that we looked good against Ireland and France through a combo of their complete shock that we had a dangerous backline and no/little time to prep for it.

For me Vesty and surround him with people like Fletcb, Walts and Rusty to help him navigate surrounded by true experience of coaching and also on pathway graduation / introduction.

But it wouldn’t happen anyway. There’s nobody at the RFU with a spine.

Yeah as much as Stank Bumwind is out of his depth, Sweeny and Co have been fucking it up and totally out of their depth in the shallow end for what, a decade now?

[Epaminondas Pules]

As always, who are we replacing him with? He’s proved he can put a good team together if he has competent assistants. All he has at the moment is a part time skills coach, a brand new defence coach and the exception to the Peter Principle rule. He also has no head of S&C. Some of that is his own fault but we were looking good at the end of the 6N. That said, I wouldn’t argue with the idea that we looked good against Ireland and France through a combo of their complete shock that we had a dangerous backline and no/little time to prep for it.

For me Vesty and surround him with people like Fletcb, Walts and Rusty to help him navigate surrounded by true experience of coaching and also on pathway graduation / introduction.

But it wouldn’t happen anyway. There’s nobody at the RFU with a spine.

Yeah as much as Stank Bumwind is out of his depth, Sweeny and Co have been fucking it up and totally out of their depth in the shallow end for what, a decade now?

I literally don’t believe there is anyone that will lead an intervention. O’Shea is a nice bloke but he’s not a sicario! We are bollocksed!

One lucky win against Ireland and coming close against a France side missing DuPont and Ntamack who were pushed close by Italy. We are miles away from anything decent in any aspect. And the environment itself is not conducive to anything changing from within.

[Puja]

Just watched the replay of the final try. The OZ player had got outside the penultimate Eng defender. Smith didn’t have much choice but to bite in.

I think that's a bit generous, considering Sleightholme did in fact tackle Ikitau (and not a fingertips tap-tackle, but a full arms hauling down). Yes, Ikitau did look to go around Sleightholme with good feet and a hand-off, but the fact that the tackle was actually made and completed suggests that Smith did have a choice.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Just watched the replay of the final try. The OZ player had got outside the penultimate Eng defender. Smith didn’t have much choice but to bite in.

I think that's a bit generous, considering Sleightholme did in fact tackle Ikitau (and not a fingertips tap-tackle, but a full arms hauling down). Yes, Ikitau did look to go around Sleightholme with good feet and a hand-off, but the fact that the tackle was actually made and completed suggests that Smith did have a choice.

Puja

Hindsight is 20:20.

Watch this frame by frame and I think you’ll have a bit more sympathy.

[Mellsblue]

It’s interesting that a combo of Slade, primarily, and Sleightholme managed to leave both England 15s in the shoite.

[Oakboy]

Nobody has mentioned Ford gifting them a try with a crap pass.

[Mellsblue]

Nobody has mentioned Ford gifting them a try with a crap pass.

It was overrun by Lawrence. You could argue he shouldn’t have passed it but…

[p/d]

Nobody has mentioned Ford gifting them a try with a crap pass.

Have to agree. On first viewing it looked like Lawrence was at fault but when reviewed it swung back to looking like a Ford ‘error’.But, in his defence, something dies inside me every time he comes off the bench.

[Epaminondas Pules]

That’s two games where several times the outside defender has not trusted their inside!!

[Banquo]

I think most of us thought the starting XV was fair enough. Maybe one or two on the bench were questionable but on the whole the 23 seemed about right.
But jeez the actual performance veered from pedestrian and limited with the ball to utter incompetence without it.
Difficult to take too much comfort from such a loss, even though we did get into winning positions twice. Conceding 42 is bad. Really bad. Without Smith we would have created nothing. Our forwards had no punch and our backs had no devil.
Something very plainly isnt working.
I'm not at the get SB out stage yet, but we need to see something in the next games this autumn and in the 6N's otherwise he's going to come under severe pressure.

Absolutely agree on all points.

It's 5p's usual balanced assessment. We are talking about the RFU, remember. Has one single appointment since SCW measured up to expectation?

I know Banquo and others argue that our players aren't as good as claimed BUT I still believe it is the best batch since 2002. SB is NOT getting the best out of them and that simple conclusion should lead to an early ultimatum, IMO. Start winning and keep winning or fuck off.

I’ve never argued we don’t get the best out of what we have, pretty consistent on that. In fact, my biggest issue, cos it’s in your gift. It’s both possible to get the absolute best out of players, yet still come up short. Be nice to find out.


Jones was a huge winner relatively and you hated that. So what do you really want.


Today was a massive blow- Oz are in a huge transitional phase, but kept playing what was in front of them; which was a team who were both inept on the basics, failed to grasp the key moments, and utterly fell apart in the last hour.

For all Scrumheads… er passion.. Smith produced magic moments for sure; but I was behind the posts, and he utterly fcks most standard plays with a combo of always trying to make the play about him and never hitting a straight line…. He’s a mare to play outside as a consequence. Had he and Spencer been a proper playmaking duo, we would have been 30 points up after 20 mins imo. That doesn’t excuse ridiculous error count, and the worst midfield defence I think I’ve seen from an allegedly full strength side.


It was a disgrace, and several folks should be considering their position.

[Banquo]

That’s two games where several times the outside defender has not trusted their inside!!

Comedy out wide….. but ridiculous space gifted casually. That’s as bad as intl defence can be.

Heads should roll; that’s a poor Oz side that should have been destroyed by more than 20 points or more

[Puja]

Just watched the replay of the final try. The OZ player had got outside the penultimate Eng defender. Smith didn’t have much choice but to bite in.

I think that's a bit generous, considering Sleightholme did in fact tackle Ikitau (and not a fingertips tap-tackle, but a full arms hauling down). Yes, Ikitau did look to go around Sleightholme with good feet and a hand-off, but the fact that the tackle was actually made and completed suggests that Smith did have a choice.

Puja

Hindsight is 20:20.

Watch this frame by frame and I think you’ll have a bit more sympathy.

Some, but not signficantly more. Sleightholme is always still coming across - yes it's possible that Ikitau may still beat him, but in a 2-on-2 situation, you have to trust your inside man to make that tackle instead of making it a 2-on-1.

Puja

[Banquo]

Agreed. And our defence bit in badly all game tbh. Rubbish defence all game.

[Epaminondas Pules]

That’s two games where several times the outside defender has not trusted their inside!!

Comedy out wide….. but ridiculous space gifted casually. That’s as bad as intl defence can be.

Heads should roll; that’s a poor Oz side that should have been destroyed by more than 20 points or more

Absolutely! They won’t though. Nothing will happen. We get to endure more and more of this shit!

[Epaminondas Pules]

Absolutely agree on all points.

It's 5p's usual balanced assessment. We are talking about the RFU, remember. Has one single appointment since SCW measured up to expectation?

I know Banquo and others argue that our players aren't as good as claimed BUT I still believe it is the best batch since 2002. SB is NOT getting the best out of them and that simple conclusion should lead to an early ultimatum, IMO. Start winning and keep winning or fuck off.

I’ve never argued we don’t get the best out of what we have, pretty consistent on that. In fact, my biggest issue, cos it’s in your gift. It’s both possible to get the absolute best out of players, yet still come up short. Be nice to find out.


Jones was a huge winner relatively and you hated that. So what do you really want.


Today was a massive blow- Oz are in a huge transitional phase, but kept playing what was in front of them; which was a team who were both inept on the basics, failed to grasp the key moments, and utterly fell apart in the last hour.

For all Scrumheads… er passion.. Smith produced magic moments for sure; but I was behind the posts, and he utterly fcks most standard plays with a combo of always trying to make the play about him and never hitting a straight line…. He’s a mare to play outside as a consequence. Had he and Spencer been a proper playmaking duo, we would have been 30 points up after 20 mins imo. That doesn’t excuse ridiculous error count, and the worst midfield defence I think I’ve seen from an allegedly full strength side.


It was a disgrace, and several folks should be considering their position.

Today there was not a single area that has actually stayed level; let alone improved. The whole thing, top to bottom has gone backwards! Borthwick is an idiot and his coaches drastically out of their depth! It has to end soon!

[Mellsblue]

I think that's a bit generous, considering Sleightholme did in fact tackle Ikitau (and not a fingertips tap-tackle, but a full arms hauling down). Yes, Ikitau did look to go around Sleightholme with good feet and a hand-off, but the fact that the tackle was actually made and completed suggests that Smith did have a choice.

Puja

Hindsight is 20:20.

Watch this frame by frame and I think you’ll have a bit more sympathy.

Some, but not signficantly more. Sleightholme is always still coming across - yes it's possible that Ikitau may still beat him, but in a 2-on-2 situation, you have to trust your inside man to make that tackle instead of making it a 2-on-1.

Puja

I know that by the book you trust your inside man but that wasn’t by the book defence. Sleightholme wasn’t really coming across, rather he was beaten on the outside. I can see why Smith made the decision as for a second Sleightholme looks like he’s fecked it up, as he did for when Furbank had to gamble. Ultimately, if our onfield defensive guru hadn’t fecked up initially (again) Smith isn’t put in that position. We’re really arging over the symptom rather than the cause.

[Mellsblue]

Absolutely agree on all points.

It's 5p's usual balanced assessment. We are talking about the RFU, remember. Has one single appointment since SCW measured up to expectation?

I know Banquo and others argue that our players aren't as good as claimed BUT I still believe it is the best batch since 2002. SB is NOT getting the best out of them and that simple conclusion should lead to an early ultimatum, IMO. Start winning and keep winning or fuck off.

I’ve never argued we don’t get the best out of what we have, pretty consistent on that. In fact, my biggest issue, cos it’s in your gift. It’s both possible to get the absolute best out of players, yet still come up short. Be nice to find out.


Jones was a huge winner relatively and you hated that. So what do you really want.


Today was a massive blow- Oz are in a huge transitional phase, but kept playing what was in front of them; which was a team who were both inept on the basics, failed to grasp the key moments, and utterly fell apart in the last hour.

For all Scrumheads… er passion.. Smith produced magic moments for sure; but I was behind the posts, and he utterly fcks most standard plays with a combo of always trying to make the play about him and never hitting a straight line…. He’s a mare to play outside as a consequence. Had he and Spencer been a proper playmaking duo, we would have been 30 points up after 20 mins imo. That doesn’t excuse ridiculous error count, and the worst midfield defence I think I’ve seen from an allegedly full strength side.


It was a disgrace, and several folks should be considering their position.

I can’t believe a man of your standing was made to sit behind the posts.

[Epaminondas Pules]

It's 5p's usual balanced assessment. We are talking about the RFU, remember. Has one single appointment since SCW measured up to expectation?

I know Banquo and others argue that our players aren't as good as claimed BUT I still believe it is the best batch since 2002. SB is NOT getting the best out of them and that simple conclusion should lead to an early ultimatum, IMO. Start winning and keep winning or fuck off.

I’ve never argued we don’t get the best out of what we have, pretty consistent on that. In fact, my biggest issue, cos it’s in your gift. It’s both possible to get the absolute best out of players, yet still come up short. Be nice to find out.


Jones was a huge winner relatively and you hated that. So what do you really want.


Today was a massive blow- Oz are in a huge transitional phase, but kept playing what was in front of them; which was a team who were both inept on the basics, failed to grasp the key moments, and utterly fell apart in the last hour.

For all Scrumheads… er passion.. Smith produced magic moments for sure; but I was behind the posts, and he utterly fcks most standard plays with a combo of always trying to make the play about him and never hitting a straight line…. He’s a mare to play outside as a consequence. Had he and Spencer been a proper playmaking duo, we would have been 30 points up after 20 mins imo. That doesn’t excuse ridiculous error count, and the worst midfield defence I think I’ve seen from an allegedly full strength side.


It was a disgrace, and several folks should be considering their position.

I can’t believe a man of your standing was made to sit behind the posts.

That’s not making the PRC for you

[Mellsblue]

I’ve never argued we don’t get the best out of what we have, pretty consistent on that. In fact, my biggest issue, cos it’s in your gift. It’s both possible to get the absolute best out of players, yet still come up short. Be nice to find out.


Jones was a huge winner relatively and you hated that. So what do you really want.


Today was a massive blow- Oz are in a huge transitional phase, but kept playing what was in front of them; which was a team who were both inept on the basics, failed to grasp the key moments, and utterly fell apart in the last hour.

For all Scrumheads… er passion.. Smith produced magic moments for sure; but I was behind the posts, and he utterly fcks most standard plays with a combo of always trying to make the play about him and never hitting a straight line…. He’s a mare to play outside as a consequence. Had he and Spencer been a proper playmaking duo, we would have been 30 points up after 20 mins imo. That doesn’t excuse ridiculous error count, and the worst midfield defence I think I’ve seen from an allegedly full strength side.


It was a disgrace, and several folks should be considering their position.

I can’t believe a man of your standing was made to sit behind the posts.

That’s not making the PRC for you

Talk about kicking a man while he’s down.

[Which Tyler]

Can we get Cheika in in time for the 6N
Mostly suggesting this to annoy the Leicester fans

[Epaminondas Pules]

I can’t believe a man of your standing was made to sit behind the posts.

That’s not making the PRC for you

Talk about kicking a man while he’s down.

True! I mean he’s just had to sit watching that shower of shit unfold!

[p/d]

It's 5p's usual balanced assessment. We are talking about the RFU, remember. Has one single appointment since SCW measured up to expectation?

I know Banquo and others argue that our players aren't as good as claimed BUT I still believe it is the best batch since 2002. SB is NOT getting the best out of them and that simple conclusion should lead to an early ultimatum, IMO. Start winning and keep winning or fuck off.

I’ve never argued we don’t get the best out of what we have, pretty consistent on that. In fact, my biggest issue, cos it’s in your gift. It’s both possible to get the absolute best out of players, yet still come up short. Be nice to find out.


Jones was a huge winner relatively and you hated that. So what do you really want.


Today was a massive blow- Oz are in a huge transitional phase, but kept playing what was in front of them; which was a team who were both inept on the basics, failed to grasp the key moments, and utterly fell apart in the last hour.

For all Scrumheads… er passion.. Smith produced magic moments for sure; but I was behind the posts, and he utterly fcks most standard plays with a combo of always trying to make the play about him and never hitting a straight line…. He’s a mare to play outside as a consequence. Had he and Spencer been a proper playmaking duo, we would have been 30 points up after 20 mins imo. That doesn’t excuse ridiculous error count, and the worst midfield defence I think I’ve seen from an allegedly full strength side.


It was a disgrace, and several folks should be considering their position.

I can’t believe a man of your standing was made to sit behind the posts.

I can.