RugbyRebels

rowan wrote:French fans booing their own team at the final whistle, apparently.

That’s nothing new.

France are their own worst enemy and it’s politics that is causing the problem. They have the richest clubs in th world and it causes a lot of friction with the union.

South Africa would be a lot stronger if the political element was better managed.

Wales have a problem with style and coaching.

Wales just doesn't have the physical presence to match the big Pacific Island players in the New Zealand team, if we're honest about it. Most teams don't. It's like NFL, where African-Americans have long been the vast majority of professional players but - Pacific Islanders are actually the most by far per capita. There is a reason for that. That's why we find them popping up in the most unlikely places as impact players, from Japan to Romania. I don't believe there is too much wrong with Wales style and coaching. I think they are, and have always been, among the most technically aware exponents of the game - hence the vast number of quality referees they produce. If they had a few hundred thousand Polynesian boyos residing in the valleys, I'm sure they'd be kicking backsides just as much as New Zealand are. That's my personal view of it, anyway.

I agree with you re France and South Africa, however. France has just sacrificed everything on the altar of professionalism and South Africa is still struggling with the integration issue. I wouldn't be surprised to see either or both of these two nations back at the top of the food chain before long, because these issues can certainly be resolved.

I think the Polynesian battering ram thing is getting a bit tired. Have a look at the Lions series for a recent counter to that argument. The ABs aren't good simply because there are lots of Polynesians in the team, they are good because they are exceptionally well drilled in the basics and understand the game very well. The French have been picking the biggest players they can find for a few years now, and look at them. The Welsh back line a year or two back had a similar philosophy, and ditto the English. I really think your logic on this is extremely dated, and a bit of an insult to PI players, to be honest.

I think you are insulting Pacific Island players (once again) by trying to downplay their impact on the game. Battering ram is your own definition, not mine. I'm referring to the full package, including speed and agility. That obviously didn't occur to you. The Lions haven't beaten New Zealand since 71. I hardly think scraping to a drawn series indicates the Northern Hemisphere is catching up with NZ, especially in view of the previous World Cup, which England hosted. That's where it matters, and in that respect they are falling further behind. & here's news for you: The All Blacks have always been an extremely well-drilled team, but they played second fiddle to South Africa for much of their history. Today's success has been all about adapting from the forward-orientated style of play which suited the raw-boned farmers of the amateur era to a more expansive game-plan in the professional era which utilizes the explosive speed and power of Pacific Island players to the max. That's as obvious to anyone without a chip on the shoulder as is the superior athleticism of African-Americans in the NFL.

I don't understand why you insist on lecturing me on my own history and cultural identity. Don't turn this into painting me as biased, or worse. My point with the Lions is the way in which they put the squeeze on the ABs. Here's news for you, when the ABs pack gets monstered, the rest of their game suffers. PI players make the ABs because they are good, not because they are Islanders. What chip on my shoulder?? You really are the embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Unbelievable.

You don't like being lectured in response to your attempts to lecture others. That's the truth of it. You make haughty, condescending comments about other peoples well-informed points of view, and then express indignation when you come in for similar treatment yourself. You think you know so much about your own history and cultural identity but you couldn't even tell me the name of the island which has come to be widely regarded as the 'Hawaiki' of Maori legend. I learned this nearly 30 years ago, through my own extensive endeavours because it wasn't part of our education system back then. & it was around that time that I also began writing about rugby. So dismissing my views on this topic is clearly peurile. "when the ABs pack gets monstered, the rest of their game suffers," you say. No kidding, Einstein? We shall now pause to consider whose game does not suffer when their pack gets monstered.The Pacific Islanders are to New Zealand rugby what African-Americans are to NFL, basically. Don't downplay the massive contribution they have made with their superior athletic skills, and then tell me you're not biased. That would really be the embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect!

I haven't dismissed anything outright you fornicating baboon. We are all in awe of your extensive endeavours. Where have I downplayed this contribution? You seem desperate to paint me as biased towards particular ethnicity, although I suspect your real motivation is to paint yourself as an all-knowing sage that is down with the brown.

You're a winner mate.

Ad hominems. A defeated adversary floundering in the dust.

So back to France: What's the solution? Aside from the conflicts between country and clubs, they really need to look at replacing Noves as coach. As Nick Mallet recently put it, they lack direction and are not a well organized team at all. They kick the ball out too often, rely on one-off runners, run sideways and offload at the wrong moments. His winning record is only 28% and the selections have become a turnstile. In fact, over the last five years France have won less than a third of their encounters with tier 1 teams, less than half their 6 Nations games, and only 2 of 20 fixtures with Southern Hemisphere teams!

Fuck off, rowan. You made an asinine and borderline racist comment and you got called out on it. The only person flailing here is you, you stupid cunt.

Puja nailed you the other day. Why do you think no one bothers to engage with you at all? Hint: it has nothing to do with you being the smartest cleverboy in the room, and it has everything to do with your misguided conviction that you are, in fact, the smartest cleverboy in the room.

Irony is not your strong suit is it Rowan?


France just suck a bit of balls at the moment. I get the impression Noves is a bit of a neanderthal.

Sounds like you and Noves have plenty in common then!

But never fear, Cashead has come along to defend racist attitudes by accusing others of the very offense he is himself guilty of. & that is because he is a hapless halfwit - but at least he amuses me.

It's amazing how the guy who does racial profiling and gets called out on it then tries to accuse others of racism. I suppose you and self-awareness have not been on speaking terms for quite some time?

Also,

rowan wrote:Ad hominems. A defeated adversary floundering in the dust.

lol

The hapless one would also deny the impact of African-Americans on the NFL due to their athletic superiorty, no doubt. Never mind that 12% of the population provides 80% of the players. That's just coincidence!

I'm guessing the one on the left is Cashead, given the hapless expression & bizarre choice of headwear

rowan wrote:Wales just doesn't have the physical presence to match the big Pacific Island players in the New Zealand team, if we're honest about it. Most teams don't. It's like NFL, where African-Americans have long been the vast majority of professional players but - Pacific Islanders are actually the most by far per capita. There is a reason for that. That's why we find them popping up in the most unlikely places as impact players, from Japan to Romania. I don't believe there is too much wrong with Wales style and coaching. I think they are, and have always been, among the most technically aware exponents of the game - hence the vast number of quality referees they produce. If they had a few hundred thousand Polynesian boyos residing in the valleys, I'm sure they'd be kicking backsides just as much as New Zealand are. That's my personal view of it, anyway.

I agree with you re France and South Africa, however. France has just sacrificed everything on the altar of professionalism and South Africa is still struggling with the integration issue. I wouldn't be surprised to see either or both of these two nations back at the top of the food chain before long, because these issues can certainly be resolved.

Until recently we had one of th biggest back lines in world rugby. I agree that the south sea islanders are superbly built for rugby, but that advantage isn’t what it used to be given the advent of professionalism. The fact that many south sea islanders pop up around the world probably has a lot to do with the parlours state of affairs in their home countries.

Sandy....French clubs scout pretty aggressively.

Pacific Islanders are big-boned and have the fast-twitch fiber advantage, so they can move quick and turn on a dime even when they're weighing in at over 100kgs. Not many white guys can do that, sorry. JK was about the closest exception I ever saw, but his playing weight wasn't much over 90kgs. & there certainly hasn't been a white Lomu, and probably never will be. The vast majority of players who come close have been of Pacific Island ethnicity also.

So back to France. Who would replace Noves? I thought I read something about Saint-Andre coming back, but not sure that would be the answer as his record was about the same.

Rowan, I'm not sure who you are trying to convince here.....has anyone actually said that PI players are not naturally gifted?

morepork wrote:Rowan, I'm not sure who you are trying to convince here.....has anyone actually said that PI players are not naturally gifted?

"I think the Polynesian battering ram thing is getting a bit tired"

Your words, not mine.

OK. How does this translate to an accusation of saying that PI players are not naturally gifted. Try and use your words.

Because the entire gist of your comments was to dismiss the contribution of Pacific Island players, whose impact on NZ rugby has corresponded precisely with the All Blacks' increasing domination of world rugby. Indeed, you even went as far as to suggest it was an insult to the PI-NZers themselves, which is an extremely ironic comment to make, as well as total nonsense. It's quite plainly an insult to PI players not to recognize their contribution. You prefer to point out how well-drilled the All Blacks are these days, as if this were some ingenious strategy no other national team had thought of in the professional age. & your other pearl of wisdom was to suggest they wouldn't be any good if their forwards were getting demolished!

Fuck off you utter fool. You are being deliberately obtuse and I insinuated absolutely nothing of the sort.

Are you on Galantamine of carbiDopa?

Nothing makes me chuckle aloud to myself like toying with a wind-up merchant until his head explodes !

So back to the question: Who would replace Noves? I thought I read something about Saint-Andre coming back, but not sure that would be the answer as his record was about the same.

Fellas, if you insist of feeding the chimp, it will throw shit at you.

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Thanks for the heads-up, Donny.