RugbyRebels

Puja wrote:England
France
Argentina
Americas 1 (USA or Canada)
Oceania 2 (Fiji or Samoa)

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure that that could have gone worse.

Puja

Certainly not the easiest pool but better than having Australia and Wales.

I suppose Scotland and Italy would have been the "easiest" on paper. Personally I wanted Wales to even the score of 2015.

That said it looks like (if we win the group which we should) another England-Wales quarter-final.

p/d wrote:

skidger wrote:I dont understand all the doom and gloom myself. If we are not good enough to get out of the group then we wont have a chance of winning. I know this is stating the obvious but come on. English mentality is baffling at times as the Kiwis would not give a monkeys if drawn in that group and back themselves to win every game. I bet Jones is relishing the RWC after that draw.

Right with you Skidger. Couldn't care who is in our group.

Thirded

It's the toughest group, but we know we can beat every team in our group as well as Wales or Australia in the knock-outs so I'm not one of the doomsayers.

I think we also need to bear in mind that we'll be going in to this World Cup in fair better shape on a number or levels.

Eddie has been to several World Cups coaching successful teams (including Japan IMO) - Lancaster hadn't. That will definitely make a difference.

Also, our team will be far more settled/experienced. With the exception of players who break in to the side/squad in the next 2 years, the majority of our top players will have 50+ caps - some closer to 100. Many of whom will also have previous World Cup experience too.

It will be tough but it's certainly not insurmountable.

All Blacks to win it again. Especially if SA and Australian rugby don't improve.

If you can't beat France and Argentina, you do not deserve to win a World Cup. Every Champion has beaten one or both of them in the course of winning the tournament.

In fact, playing them is a pretty good sign. No sides have been beaten more often at World Cups by eventual champions. (See Stats thread on SHMB for more).

Len wrote:All Blacks to win it again. Especially if SA and Australian rugby don't improve.

Easy win for NZ. Coast through the group (warm up) games resting key players then come in fresh with a full team for the last few games.

Len wrote:All Blacks to win it again. Especially if SA and Australian rugby don't improve.

Gods, I hope not. Quite apart from the fact that I'm hoping we'll be good enough to win it by that point, the game really does need a different champion for 2019. Plus the Kiwis are insufferable when winning.

Puja

Digby wrote:

p/d wrote:

skidger wrote:I dont understand all the doom and gloom myself. If we are not good enough to get out of the group then we wont have a chance of winning. I know this is stating the obvious but come on. English mentality is baffling at times as the Kiwis would not give a monkeys if drawn in that group and back themselves to win every game. I bet Jones is relishing the RWC after that draw.

Right with you Skidger. Couldn't care who is in our group.

Thirded

Fourthed, with one slight reservation - physicality. France, Argentina, US and Samoa all offer hard physical clashes. Add in a dose of bad luck and we could have a difficult injury list. I know that's just one of the competition's challenges but a QF with 6 of our best missing could jack up the odds.

Puja wrote:

Len wrote:All Blacks to win it again. Especially if SA and Australian rugby don't improve.

Gods, I hope not. Quite apart from the fact that I'm hoping we'll be good enough to win it by that point, the game really does need a different champion for 2019. Plus the Kiwis are insufferable when winning.

Puja

And you lot aren't? At least we have a reason to be arrogant. Majority of your fans reckon England are shit hot when they are just in fact shit.

Being brutally realistic I simply don't think England will be quite strong enough to win a world cup by 2019 (quarter finals or semis would be a more realistic expectation imo). We now have one or two world class players but a lot of passed their best and/or over rated journeymen (Brown, Haskell, Wood, Hartley,Cole, Farrell, Kruis ) that I think will still be involved going into the tournament unless Eddy gets truly ruthless in the next season vis a vis blooding fresher but more talented players. Would be very happy to be proved wrong on this prediction though after all the largely 2nd XV of the SWC era managed somehow to make the 2007 final.

Len wrote:And you lot aren't? At least we have a reason to be arrogant. Majority of your fans reckon England are shit hot when they are just in fact shit.

Define "fans" - you appear to mean the British media, and maybe people who watch 1-2 matches a year and thus believe the media as they have no evidence for their own eyes. You also seem to exclude people who watch and talk about rugby on anything approaching a regular basis.

Nothing like a good bit of stereotypical blinkered ignorance though hey?

Oakboy wrote:

Digby wrote:

p/d wrote:
Right with you Skidger. Couldn't care who is in our group.

Thirded

Fourthed, with one slight reservation - physicality. France, Argentina, US and Samoa all offer hard physical clashes. Add in a dose of bad luck and we could have a difficult injury list. I know that's just one of the competition's challenges but a QF with 6 of our best missing could jack up the odds.

Are injury rates that much worse when playing the teams we've drawn Vs say South Africa, Italy and Georgia?

Which Tyler wrote:

Len wrote:And you lot aren't? At least we have a reason to be arrogant. Majority of your fans reckon England are shit hot when they are just in fact shit.

Define "fans" - you appear to mean the British media, and maybe people who watch 1-2 matches a year and thus believe the media as they have no evidence for their own eyes. You also seem to exclude people who watch and talk about rugby on anything approaching a regular basis.

Nothing like a good bit of stereotypical blinkered ignorance though hey?

To really add to this I'll add that watching once or twice a year is regular

Digby wrote:To really add to this I'll add that watching once or twice a year is regular

Bloody Pedants!

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Digby wrote:
Thirded

Fourthed, with one slight reservation - physicality. France, Argentina, US and Samoa all offer hard physical clashes. Add in a dose of bad luck and we could have a difficult injury list. I know that's just one of the competition's challenges but a QF with 6 of our best missing could jack up the odds.

Are injury rates that much worse when playing the teams we've drawn Vs say South Africa, Italy and Georgia?

No, but it is unusual to have 4 such physical opponents in the one group. It's not a huge deal and I'd accept the 'tough titty' situation. It does mean not whingeing at the QF stage if 3 players are broken and another 3 missing with HIAs. That's all I'm saying.

Which Tyler wrote:

Digby wrote:To really add to this I'll add that watching once or twice a year is regular

Bloody Pedants!

Are revolting.

Though really I'm not sure what people are being accused of. I might lean towards wanting a strong selection and performance from the team over expecting/wanting results, but it'd seem many people simply lean towards being supporters and wanting/expecting results. That happens in every country, and yet for some it's a weird stick to weirdly beat the English with. Yes our media is crap, especially our print media, but I don't know how many countries around the world I've been and I've never been struck that someone else is doing a vastly better job such I wished we did it like this in England

Oakboy wrote:

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
Fourthed, with one slight reservation - physicality. France, Argentina, US and Samoa all offer hard physical clashes. Add in a dose of bad luck and we could have a difficult injury list. I know that's just one of the competition's challenges but a QF with 6 of our best missing could jack up the odds.

Are injury rates that much worse when playing the teams we've drawn Vs say South Africa, Italy and Georgia?

No, but it is unusual to have 4 such physical opponents in the one group. It's not a huge deal and I'd accept the 'tough titty' situation. It does mean not whingeing at the QF stage if 3 players are broken and another 3 missing with HIAs. That's all I'm saying.

I couldn't tell you what any of the teams we'll play against will be like. It's a group, and three of the teams are tier 1 which doesn't seem that odd when it's the 3rd cup in a row we've faced that situation

Len wrote:All Blacks to win it again. Especially if SA and Australian rugby don't improve.

Eddie Jones to employ the tried and tested strategy of sending France into the same semi final bracket as NZ (see 1999 & 2007) by strategically coming second in group...

More seriously though so what if the group is hard or not, if we have any reasonable chance to win the thing we need the players to be mentally in a place where they are relishing the chance to demolish any team put in front of them no matter what shirt its wearing.

Which Tyler wrote:

Len wrote:And you lot aren't? At least we have a reason to be arrogant. Majority of your fans reckon England are shit hot when they are just in fact shit.

Define "fans" - you appear to mean the British media, and maybe people who watch 1-2 matches a year and thus believe the media as they have no evidence for their own eyes. You also seem to exclude people who watch and talk about rugby on anything approaching a regular basis.

Nothing like a good bit of stereotypical blinkered ignorance though hey?

Key word in my paragraph is majority. Obviously the well informed on here are the minority.

so... define "fans"

Which Tyler wrote:so... define "fans"

People who watch England

"No *true* Scotsman"

Puja

Len wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:so... define "fans"

People who watch England

Then the majority of fans don't have an opinion on how good or otherwise are, and would struggle to name more than 3 players from the last decade.