RugbyRebels

Just to clarify I think the Spanish should see some bans regardless. The outcome of the ref investigation will determine what kind of bans.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:a 28-8 penalty count though...

Hmm.. A hint of an eastern european election around that stat.

Elsewhere it's being reported as 18-8. I get the feeling many people complaining about this didn't see the game live or watch a full match replay. I was bitterly disappointed in the result myself, mainly because I really don't want to see the same 20 teams lining up yet again in Japan, but I saw the game and it was a classic choke. The penalty count, whatever it was, could be attributed mostly to their mounting frustrations. We've all been there. We know how much the epic rugby choke hurts. Look how the Kiwis moaned after the 95 - 07 RWCs. That's all this is about. The Spanish team and their fans failing to come to terms with the fact they let a golden opportunity slip. The result was not unfair.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

Big D wrote:If corruption is proven then ban all involved.

If it is or isn't corruption bans must be handed out to the Spanish players.

Including the players that reacted?

Yes.

To some extent this incident has arisen as a result of World Rugby's decision to basically outsource qualifying to the regional associations and their established competitions - rather than run a proper, independent qualifying system as they were doing a couple of decades ago. I think only the Americas have a home & away basis for qualifying games. The other regional competitions involve a round-robin, so that a lot can depend on getting home advantage against your main rival(s). Spain had that against Romania, in fact. In other cases they are played at one venue, neutral EXCEPT for the host nation. That was the case in both Asia and Africa last time, from memory. & the refereeing appointments were similarly inappropriate for a World Cup qualifying competition. Ultimately World Rugby needs to take ownership for this and stop cutting corners.

Has anyone actually seen the game? Myself I've only seen footage from after the final whistle, which does not look good.

Digby wrote:Has anyone actually seen the game? Myself I've only seen footage from after the final whistle, which does not look good.

It's on the Europe Rugby website, and I watched the first 15 minutes or so.
The camera work is dreadful, the standard of Rugby not great, and the prospect of watching the whole thing was just a little too much with other things to do. Certainly in the first 15 minutes the refereeing did not appear to be particularly one-sided (penalty count being about 4-1 notwithstanding), and some suggestions that I have seen about the Spaniards indulging in off the ball stuff did not hold up (obviously that may have changed later on). In fact there were some scuffles with the Belgians having at least equal share of the blame. Not really helpful, sorry.

Stones of granite wrote:

Digby wrote:Has anyone actually seen the game? Myself I've only seen footage from after the final whistle, which does not look good.

It's on the Europe Rugby website, and I watched the first 15 minutes or so.
The camera work is dreadful, the standard of Rugby not great, and the prospect of watching the whole thing was just a little too much with other things to do. Certainly in the first 15 minutes the refereeing did not appear to be particularly one-sided (penalty count being about 4-1 notwithstanding), and some suggestions that I have seen about the Spaniards indulging in off the ball stuff did not hold up (obviously that may have changed later on). In fact there were some scuffles with the Belgians having at least equal share of the blame. Not really helpful, sorry.

I've been told the pen count was more like 20-8 and not 28-8. I'm also told the ref realising what was at stake had (along with Spain) looked into a replacement ref for the game, but a decision was made above the ref's level to stay as is. Worth noting if this ends up with blaming the ref and/or simply standing him down as a political convenience it could well end any shot the ref has at going to the 2019 RWC

Already addressed most of the above questions. Yes, I saw the game. There are varying claims on the penalty count, but if you watch the game you will see how these increasingly arose from the visitors' frustrations. Belgium's points came from 6 penalties. Not a great spectacle, for sure. Spain couldn't assert themselves up front against a solid home pack, denying their talented backline sufficient possession to really cut loose, which is where I would've expected them to win the game comfortably. Meanwhile, don't be at all surprised if we see this ref at the RWC. Rugbydom has always taken a holier-than-thou approach with its officials, and one who has been the subject of controversy is more likely to be rewarded than penalized in any way.

I also think the collective international outcry has more than a little to do with the fact that many fans, like me, are just fed up with seeing the same old familiar faces at the World Cup and were really hoping for something new - or at least, a return of one team after two decades, forcing the absence of at least one of the regulars.

rowan wrote:Already addressed most of the above questions. Yes, I saw the game.

Just to clarify the question was asking if anyone sane had seen the game. No idea what you've written about the game, and I've no interest in finding out.

In fact, I would personally rate Spain's victory over Russia as having been more controversial. Take a look at this; 7 points down and denied a late try between the stix:

rowan wrote:In fact, I would personally rate Spain's victory over Russia as having been more controversial. Take a look at this; 7 points down and denied a late try between the stix:

ouch, that's just really unlucky: ref on wrong side, touchies probably unsighted. TV coverage but no TMO I guess?

What goes around comes around. I also remember how unfairly Samoa were treated in their Olympic 7s repechange final against Spain in Monaco. Now that was ridiculous!

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:I think there still need to be player bans even if ref is found guilty. It's a dangerous precedent.

Completely agree. Last time I looked it was a life ban for striking a ref. Whilst refs were appointed in advance, there should be scope to make changes if it becomes apparent that the ref could be in a position where his integrity is question regardless of his performance on the field.

But regardless of any of that, manhandling a ref to the point where he need to be escorted from the stadium for his own safety is utterly unacceptable.

Fucking footballers.

I didn't personally see any of the players lay a hand on the ref. I might have missed it, of course, though it looked to me like they just wanted to get in his face and bitch - without any attempt to physically manhandle him - but were prevented from doing so initially by the Belgian players, and later by security. A one or two match ban should be sufficient for the main culprits, IMHO, and that ought to entail the upcoming playoffs against Portugal and (possibly) Samoa.

There is a poll for this, by the way. So far banning the Spanish players and blaming Putin seem to be the preferred options: http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/viewtop ... =13&t=2630

Spain have officially asked for the game to replayed.

La Federación Española de Rugby ha presentado este martes una reclamación formal ante World Rugby y Rugby Europe sobre los hechos ocurridos con motivo del encuentro Bélgica - España del pasado domingo 18 de marzo. La reclamación fundamenta como argumentos los siguientes:

En primer lugar se ha producido la vulneración del principio de imparcialidad que debe imperar en cualquier actuación deportiva. El hecho de que el árbitro fuera rumano habiendo intereses de la misma Federación Rumana en el resultado de este encuentro, rompe la imparcialidad requerida, puesto que hay un conflicto de intereses que no ha sido respetado.

De hecho la FER había solicitado 20 días antes de la celebración del encuentro, una vez que los intereses de Rumanía quedaban afectados por el resultado de este partido, la sustitución de los tres colegiados. Solicitud que fue denegada por Rugby Europe. El mantenimiento de la designación de estos árbitros rompía la garantía de una competición transparente, propiciando un conflictos de intereses, circunstancia que debe ser evitada en cualquier actividad deportiva. El hecho de que los tres árbitros pertenecieran a la Federación Rumana, alguno de ellos con cargos de responsabilidad en la misma, motivaba la desconfianza sobre su imparcialidad. Esta simple sospecha debería haber sido suficiente para valorar la solicitud de la Federación española

http://ferugby.es/noticias2.php?titulo= ... a-Espa%F1a

Just had an email from a ref who's fuming about some of the reaction to this, right now much of his opprobrium is being directed at Stephen Jones for stirring the pot

I don't think Spain will get there now, but they need to re-group and start thinking about the upcoming playoffs. They should beat Portugal easily enough. & then there's Samoa. They almost certainly won't win there. But that's their next chance and obviously go for it. Failing that, they'll still have yet another chance in the repechage tourny. & what's in front of them there? Canada, probably Hong Kong, and an African team most likely to be Kenya or Zimbabwe. On recent form they'll take out the African team and should squeeze past HK as well. So it comes down to that clash with Canada. Not exactly insurmountable. If they could beat Romania, they can beat Canada. & if Uruguay could beat Canada, Spain should back themselves. At least they have destiny in their own hands.

Russia it is for our group!
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/world-ru ... in-belgium

While those bans are spot on it doesn't actually address the refereeing issue does it? While justified they've gone off on a f*ck off huge tangent.