Europe - in or out - RR Votes

[Zhivago]

It's a much different scenario for me, and many others I know. If the UK does leave, what will happen to my work situation? Will I still be eligible to work in the EU? Will I need to get a visa? Will I need to leave the EU and then come back?

It's not the responsibility of the stay campaign to answer these questions, it's the responsibility of the leave one. And I have not seen a single answer.

Same here, but different country. I assume you're registered to vote... but postal vote won't work I was told by the local electoral office in my constituency as there isn't enough time for the postal votes to be sent. Basically it needs to be done by proxy.

[Stom]

It's a much different scenario for me, and many others I know. If the UK does leave, what will happen to my work situation? Will I still be eligible to work in the EU? Will I need to get a visa? Will I need to leave the EU and then come back?

It's not the responsibility of the stay campaign to answer these questions, it's the responsibility of the leave one. And I have not seen a single answer.

Same here, but different country. I assume you're registered to vote... but postal vote won't work I was told by the local electoral office in my constituency as there isn't enough time for the postal votes to be sent. Basically it needs to be done by proxy.

Interestingly, mine said the opposite: they're sending out extra early so that it can definitely be done in time.

[Billyfish]

Somewhere between Meh - I don't think it will make that much difference - and Leave - I don't like being part of something big, being part of something small is better for democracy and better for the soul, I don't partcularly like what the EU has done with Greece and don't like the red tape money pit that is Brussels, I recognise the "Stay" campaign's media strategy as the same very same lying fear machine employed in Scotland and I don't like that and I mistrust anyone who can come up a figure or percentage of how bad things will get, this is clearly 5hit and made up as most economic forecasting handed to us has proved pants or unreliable, economists are merely paid soothsayers. I also suspect the whole show is big boys club for big business that does not have our interests at heart. None of those are good enough reasons to leave though, I doubt much would change dramatically either way, so I err on the side of Meh.

[Banquo]

Trump backs Brexit.....on a 'feeling'. That's sealed it, then.

[Stones of granite]

Trump backs Brexit.....on a 'feeling'. That's sealed it, then.

That seals it for me - first UG, now Trump...


I'm voting In.

[Banquo]

Trump backs Brexit.....on a 'feeling'. That's sealed it, then.

That seals it for me - first UG, now Trump...


I'm voting In.

It is a somewhat motley crew on the out supporters..........if that matters. But Gove, Farage, Trump, BoJo is a pretty unappealing mix.

[bruce]

Trump backs Brexit.....on a 'feeling'. That's sealed it, then.

That seals it for me - first UG, now Trump...


I'm voting In.

It is a somewhat motley crew on the out supporters..........if that matters. But Gove, Farage, Trump, BoJo is a pretty unappealing mix.

..and me, don't forget me! Not that it in anyway changes the appeal.

Although I do seem to be a mystic! " I have a feeling the country will vote to remain though, the bunch of no ball bottlers that we are. I predict a 2/3's to 1/3 split to the stays."

[WiganShark]

"I'm in with the in crowd"

[UGagain]

All the reason you need to exit. When they use the term 'fiscal discipline' it is neoliberal code for deliberately raising unemployment/cutting social spending. The EU is a permanent recession club.

Stability and Growth Pact
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Forecasted fiscal compliance of EU member states (debt-to-GDP criterion)
The Stability and Growth Pact (SGP) is an agreement, among the 28 Member states of the European Union, to facilitate and maintain the stability of the Economic and Monetary Union (EMU). Based primarily on Articles 121 and 126[1] of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, it consists of fiscal monitoring of members by the European Commission and the Council of Ministers, and the issuing of a yearly recommendation for policy actions to ensure a full compliance with the SGP also in the medium-term. If a Member State breaches the SGP's outlined maximum limit for government deficit and debt, the surveillance and request for corrective action will intensify through the declaration of an Excessive Deficit Procedure (EDP); and if these corrective actions continue to remain absent after multiple warnings, the Member State can ultimately be issued economic sanctions.[2] The pact was outlined by a resolution and two council regulations in July 1997.[3] The first regulation "on the strengthening of the surveillance of budgetary positions and the surveillance and coordination of economic policies", known as the "preventive arm", entered into force 1 July 1998.[4] The second regulation "on speeding up and clarifying the implementation of the excessive deficit procedure", known as the "dissuasive arm", entered into force 1 January 1999.[5]

The purpose of the pact was to ensure that fiscal discipline would be maintained and enforced in the EMU.[6] All EU member states are automatically members of both the EMU and the SGP, as this is defined by paragraphs in the EU Treaty itself. The fiscal discipline is ensured by the SGP by requiring each Member State, to implement a fiscal policy aiming for the country to stay within the limits on government deficit (3% of GDP) and debt (60% of GDP); and in case of having a debt level above 60% it should each year decline with a satisfactory pace towards a level below. As outlined by the "preventive arm" regulation, all EU member states are each year obliged to submit a SGP compliance report for the scrutiny and evaluation of the European Commission and the Council of Ministers, that will present the country's expected fiscal development for the current and subsequent three years. These reports are called "stability programmes" for eurozone Member States and "convergence programmes" for non-eurozone Member States, but despite having different titles they are identical in regards of the content. After the reform of the SGP in 2005, these programmes have also included the Medium-Term budgetary Objectives (MTO's), being individually calculated for each Member State as the medium-term sustainable average-limit for the country's structural deficit, and the Member State is also obliged to outline the measures it intends to implement to attain its MTO. If the EU Member State does not comply with both the deficit limit and the debt limit, a so-called "Excessive Deficit Procedure" (EDP) is initiated along with a deadline to comply, which basically includes and outlines an "adjustment path towards reaching the MTO". This procedure is outlined by the "dissuasive arm" regulation.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stability_and_Growth_Pact

[Sandydragon]

That seals it for me - first UG, now Trump...


I'm voting In.

It is a somewhat motley crew on the out supporters..........if that matters. But Gove, Farage, Trump, BoJo is a pretty unappealing mix.

..and me, don't forget me! Not that it in anyway changes the appeal.

Although I do seem to be a mystic! " I have a feeling the country will vote to remain though, the bunch of no ball bottlers that we are. I predict a 2/3's to 1/3 split to the stays."

I reakon about 60/40 to stay in, given the vast level of meh thus far in this campaign. Potentially though, voter turnout could be pretty low so a surprise could be on the cards.

[Lizard]

I'd like to see "Out" win, just to see what actually happens. If that comes to pass, then I predict that future historians will disagree as to whether the UK was right to pull out before the EU collapsed, or whether it was the UK pulling out that actually caused that collapse.

[bruce]

I see Big Dave is warning that peace in Europe is at risk if we pull out. FFS desperate stuff and the kind of 5hite which makes want to vote "out" more.

[UGagain]

I see Big Dave is warning that peace in Europe is at risk if we pull out. FFS desperate stuff and the kind of 5hite which makes want to vote "out" more.

Cameron is ball's deep in the US' war against Russia, a serial war criminal and an unrepentant liar about everything. His talking about peace is a sick joke.

[gthedog]

They have lent on the spooks to claim Brexit would make us less safe when it is our own intelligence that goes to Europe not the other way around.
The Remainers are very worried. Polls suggest it will be way too close to call but I think the outers are more inclined to actually get out and vote

[fivepointer]

Remain have to do better than hark back to former battles on European soil.

Even that halfwit Johnson sounded more convincing than Cameron.

I'm amazed that the brexit people aren't flagging up the recent TTIP revelations. If ever you wanted something to show just how the EU has been completely captured by the corporate world and how undemocratic the whole thing is, then this is it. We should be alarmed that "our representatives" were even considering this folly.

[WiganShark]

If Michael Gove. Grayling, IDS and Johnson want out of the EU then surely we should stay in.

[rhiwbinaboy]

I shall be voting OUT, no question.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WiganShark]

IDS Liar Liar... http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03tq1g0

[Stooo]

If Michael Gove. Grayling, IDS and Johnson want out of the EU then surely we should stay in.

Unless of course that's a double bluff so that we stay in... which is what they REALLY want.

Gove, IDS & Farage etc are not exactly the bastions of shining light in morality...

[Lizard]

Would you really give no weight to the lack of wars on German, French, Italian, Benelux and British territory for over 70 years? That must be some sort of record.

[UGagain]

Would you really give no weight to the lack of wars on German, French, Italian, Benelux and British territory for over 70 years? That must be some sort of record.

But post USSR Europe has waged war on Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria among others, is supporting the Ukranian fascists' civil war and is conducting economic warfare against a number of other states.

Not to mention the economic warfare it is engaged in domestically.

[Sandydragon]

Would you really give no weight to the lack of wars on German, French, Italian, Benelux and British territory for over 70 years? That must be some sort of record.

But post USSR Europe has waged war on Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria among others, is supporting the Ukranian fascists' civil war and is conducting economic warfare against a number of other states.

Not to mention the economic warfare it is engaged in domestically.

The former Yugoslavia wasn't part of the EU. The other conflicts weren't in Europe. Even in the cold war, there were plenty of conflicts in Africa, South America and Asia.

There were no major conflicts between major nations I Europe, something which is unusual given the history of the continent. How much of that is due to the influence of the EU vs that of NATO and a perceived shared threat is debatable.

[UGagain]

Would you really give no weight to the lack of wars on German, French, Italian, Benelux and British territory for over 70 years? That must be some sort of record.

But post USSR Europe has waged war on Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria among others, is supporting the Ukranian fascists' civil war and is conducting economic warfare against a number of other states.

Not to mention the economic warfare it is engaged in domestically.

The former Yugoslavia wasn't part of the EU. The other conflicts weren't in Europe. Even in the cold war, there were plenty of conflicts in Africa, South America and Asia.

There were no major conflicts between major nations I Europe, something which is unusual given the history of the continent. How much of that is due to the influence of the EU vs that of NATO and a perceived shared threat is debatable.

You see the first word of my comment? i.e. 'But'.

[Sandydragon]

But post USSR Europe has waged war on Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria among others, is supporting the Ukranian fascists' civil war and is conducting economic warfare against a number of other states.

Not to mention the economic warfare it is engaged in domestically.

The former Yugoslavia wasn't part of the EU. The other conflicts weren't in Europe. Even in the cold war, there were plenty of conflicts in Africa, South America and Asia.

There were no major conflicts between major nations I Europe, something which is unusual given the history of the continent. How much of that is due to the influence of the EU vs that of NATO and a perceived shared threat is debatable.

You see the first word of my comment? i.e. 'But'.

The EU straddles the Cold War and afterwards, it's legitimate to compare both periods. Conflict outside Europe occurred in both periods. Major conflict between major nations didn't occur in both periods.

Furthermore, the EU didn't have a military capability for much of TS existence, member states were bound into NATO, mostly. Therefore, the only way the EU could keep the peace was ecnimically and culturally. Arguably it did succeed in that objectives for its member states.

[UGagain]

The former Yugoslavia wasn't part of the EU. The other conflicts weren't in Europe. Even in the cold war, there were plenty of conflicts in Africa, South America and Asia.

There were no major conflicts between major nations I Europe, something which is unusual given the history of the continent. How much of that is due to the influence of the EU vs that of NATO and a perceived shared threat is debatable.

You see the first word of my comment? i.e. 'But'.

The EU straddles the Cold War and afterwards, it's legitimate to compare both periods. Conflict outside Europe occurred in both periods. Major conflict between major nations didn't occur in both periods.

Furthermore, the EU didn't have a military capability for much of TS existence, member states were bound into NATO, mostly. Therefore, the only way the EU could keep the peace was ecnimically and culturally. Arguably it did succeed in that objectives for its member states.

You can try to frame their argument any way you want. But the notion that the EU stands for peace or economic stability is risible.

The Germans are strangling the place.