Fallout - When Hogg met Townsend

[Big D]

Good article here:
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/stuart-h ... iew-253621

"They win a turnover in the middle of the field and they're all celebrating and going absolutely crazy. What they need to do is get on with it and focus on the next job. Go and beat these teams, rather than jumping around and shouting at lads... You're looking at them going, 'You haven't won anything major in the last while. Go on to the next job and go win these games'."

Could change this comment slightly and apply it to post England game.

sorry I find it difficult to take anything seriously from the no self awareness Irish media and people like SoB.
Watch every Irish turnover at every level. You'll see the same whooping and hair ruffling and back slapping. Unless maybe if you are SoB, who would prefer to punch a player in the stomach when he isn't looking and the ball is dead, an dof course Irish social media (not taken on by SoB or Irish MSM) going menta with accusations that Pape had somehow managed to stick a finger up SoB's arse, which was in fact impossible which anyone who saw the incident knows. (Game kicked off, ref called for kick to be retaken, SoB runs past Pape who hasn't moved and throws a full blooded punch as he runs past him). A certain ref who watched it full on managed to see nothing. Irish fans should not be reffing Ireland

I think he got a one match ban, should have been months for the coward.

Yeah it seems bizarre to single Scotland out for celebrating turnovers too much. There are so many teams that do this, and when playing without crowds the whole "create your own atmosphere" thing really took off. There might be some sort of point in there about Scotland not focussing on what's ahead of them, but again I'm just wondering why many Irish pundits are so, so bitter about anything to do with Scotland.

The SOB comment was from ages ago just pulled into this article after every journalist came away from the presser with a bee in their bonnet about the responses from GT and SH.

SOB is a coward who should have been banned for a while for that, but I think he has a general point about the mind set of the players (broken clocks and all that). Even if I don't agree about the in game stuff I think it shows between games at times. For example we never back up wins against England the following week. This year was a prime example of when we could have been heading into week 3 with 2 wins and they blew it. As they did last year, even allowing for the red card. Both games were winnable v a very average Wales side.

[septic 9]

The culture in the camp is clearly an issue. Beat England and some players "ripped the arse out it" and social media laughed. The players then had a shocker v Wales. There needs to be a culture shift. If players want a beer then fine, but if they can't stop themselves at a couple then there is an issue that needs sorted.

funny that. If they really ripped the arse out of it (by getting really pissed) , then it was the coaching team's consent. My memory anyway is that Fagerson said that some did, he didn't say he did (he may or may not). There is a tendency to read far too much into throwaway comments.

Same with the Ireland post match interviews. I'm not exactly sure what the media or fans wanted them to say. Nothing short of I'm so unhappy with all of this I can't take it anymore so I'm off to top myself would have stopped the same folk pushing the same lines, and I'm far from convinced some of the media would have stopped even then

Fagerson went home to his family and "some of the lads ripped the arse out of it". It could have been "banter" but players are pretty media savvy these days.

The press conference has seen a shift even from Scottish journalists. The press conference questions weren't that tough or that sinister in tone. Dealing with the press is a part of their job and the answers Hogg gave were daft. It was the Scottish journalists first chance to ask about the protocol breach and they've just lost by 21 points there really wasn't many positives to ask about.

The first question about the non pass wasn't even a bad/tough question, it was a question about it being a pivitol moment and he starts his answer with "unfortunately its a classic you've picked out the negatives". It is also a very fair question to ask the captain, who lead a disciplinary breach, about said breach.

players are media savvy? Some are. All have media training, some will be better than others at dealing with it.
But players are also on a high, euphoric after a big win, just as their are down after bad loss. And their answers and demeanor reflect that.
Hogg dealt with the disciplinary question. What else does he say when it keeps getting repeated in one form or another? Keep hammering the same question at a press conference after a rugby game - what the fuck did the journos want? Did they want a head they could claim, a resignation? What? What could Hogg have said to appease them, stop them continuing in the same vein? We all know the answer is SFA.

[Big D]

funny that. If they really ripped the arse out of it (by getting really pissed) , then it was the coaching team's consent. My memory anyway is that Fagerson said that some did, he didn't say he did (he may or may not). There is a tendency to read far too much into throwaway comments.

Same with the Ireland post match interviews. I'm not exactly sure what the media or fans wanted them to say. Nothing short of I'm so unhappy with all of this I can't take it anymore so I'm off to top myself would have stopped the same folk pushing the same lines, and I'm far from convinced some of the media would have stopped even then

Fagerson went home to his family and "some of the lads ripped the arse out of it". It could have been "banter" but players are pretty media savvy these days.

The press conference has seen a shift even from Scottish journalists. The press conference questions weren't that tough or that sinister in tone. Dealing with the press is a part of their job and the answers Hogg gave were daft. It was the Scottish journalists first chance to ask about the protocol breach and they've just lost by 21 points there really wasn't many positives to ask about.

The first question about the non pass wasn't even a bad/tough question, it was a question about it being a pivitol moment and he starts his answer with "unfortunately its a classic you've picked out the negatives". It is also a very fair question to ask the captain, who lead a disciplinary breach, about said breach.

players are media savvy? Some are. All have media training, some will be better than others at dealing with it.
But players are also on a high, euphoric after a big win, just as their are down after bad loss. And their answers and demeanor reflect that.
Hogg dealt with the disciplinary question. What else does he say when it keeps getting repeated in one form or another? Keep hammering the same question at a press conference after a rugby game - what the fuck did the journos want? Did they want a head they could claim, a resignation? What? What could Hogg have said to appease them, stop them continuing in the same vein? We all know the answer is SFA.

Yes Fagerson will have had enough media training to know the connotations of saying "ripped the arse out of it" 24 hours after a game.

The press conference for Hogg was less than 5minutes of actual talking time and 4 questions to him about it were all different.

- How did the "stuff yesterday effect the game". "Knew we made a mistake... Best week of preparation..." etc.
- "What is your message to fans who would be disappointed to hear of senior players being disciplined the week of the game" - Didn't actually answer the question. "Main thing is we concentrate on us... Everything else is irrelevant"
- "Did you have to apologise to the team and coaches?" - "Yes...."
- "There is a lack of clarity over what actually happened...could you explain what happened?" - "What is out there is out there".

The Scottish rugby journalists have all been pretty fair to the players and coaches, the lack of answer to the last question and the wee comment afterwards has what has annoyed I think. Edit: I have just seen Robertson in the Mail has written GT should go.

Doesn't bother me how he speaks to the press, I would probably still keep him as one of the leadership group but he could have handled that better. So could the SRU by releasing the information earlier in the week instead of Friday. There were rumours as early in the week as Monday about it.

[septic 9]

Fagerson went home to his family and "some of the lads ripped the arse out of it". It could have been "banter" but players are pretty media savvy these days.

The press conference has seen a shift even from Scottish journalists. The press conference questions weren't that tough or that sinister in tone. Dealing with the press is a part of their job and the answers Hogg gave were daft. It was the Scottish journalists first chance to ask about the protocol breach and they've just lost by 21 points there really wasn't many positives to ask about.

The first question about the non pass wasn't even a bad/tough question, it was a question about it being a pivitol moment and he starts his answer with "unfortunately its a classic you've picked out the negatives". It is also a very fair question to ask the captain, who lead a disciplinary breach, about said breach.

players are media savvy? Some are. All have media training, some will be better than others at dealing with it.
But players are also on a high, euphoric after a big win, just as their are down after bad loss. And their answers and demeanor reflect that.
Hogg dealt with the disciplinary question. What else does he say when it keeps getting repeated in one form or another? Keep hammering the same question at a press conference after a rugby game - what the fuck did the journos want? Did they want a head they could claim, a resignation? What? What could Hogg have said to appease them, stop them continuing in the same vein? We all know the answer is SFA.

Yes Fagerson will have had enough media training to know the connotations of saying "ripped the arse out of it" 24 hours after a game.

The press conference for Hogg was less than 5minutes of actual talking time and 4 questions to him about it were all different.

- How did the "stuff yesterday effect the game". "Knew we made a mistake... Best week of preparation..." etc.
- "What is your message to fans who would be disappointed to hear of senior players being disciplined the week of the game" - Didn't actually answer the question. "Main thing is we concentrate on us... Everything else is irrelevant"
- "Did you have to apologise to the team and coaches?" - "Yes...."
- "There is a lack of clarity over what actually happened...could you explain what happened?" - "What is out there is out there".

The Scottish rugby journalists have all been pretty fair to the players and coaches, the lack of answer to the last question and the wee comment afterwards has what has annoyed I think. Edit: I have just seen Robertson in the Mail has written GT should go.

Doesn't bother me how he speaks to the press, I would probably still keep him as one of the leadership group but he could have handled that better. So could the SRU by releasing the information earlier in the week instead of Friday. There were rumours as early in the week as Monday about it.

it would be very easy to let that slip out, media training or not. Fagerson has not done many interviews, the emotional excitement makes it easy to relax and just say stuff without turning into a robot.

So I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what answer would have quelled the blood seekers? what Hogg should have said. There are no answers because he answered fully and truthfully. We know what they wanted, they were never going to have it volunteered. Did any of them have the guts to ask Hogg to his face if he should step down, or if he thought he should be dropped? Better still tell him either of those? Straight, to his face? Cowards, all of them, now doing that with the player having no right of reply

[Big D]

it would be very easy to let that slip out, media training or not. Fagerson has not done many interviews, the emotional excitement makes it easy to relax and just say stuff without turning into a robot.

So I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what answer would have quelled the blood seekers? what Hogg should have said. There are no answers because he answered fully and truthfully. We know what they wanted, they were never going to have it volunteered. Did any of them have the guts to ask Hogg to his face if he should step down, or if he thought he should be dropped? Better still tell him either of those? Straight, to his face? Cowards, all of them, now doing that with the player having no right of reply

He didn't really though did he? I watched the press conference earlier. The questions were pretty tame. In the answer to a question about the fans he didn't actually mention the fans. In the answer to the question about clarifying what actually happened he said "what is out there is out there" and bits about being sorry which answers absolutely nothing for the fans and media who are interested. He and the SRU knew it was coming, there is a trained media guy with him who should have briefed him on what to say. If it was a misunderstanding just say that it was a misunderstanding. By not saying anything, either by choice or being told not to by the SRU it lets speculation run rampant that they've stuck two fingers up to management which will probably last until the Autumn as people will be rested in the summer.

His attitude to the very first question about the missed pass set the tone really, which was a perfectly valid question and before any about the night out. It is probably the one that has annoyed the media most, some of them will have given plenty of time to Hogg in his career (and vice versa). His answer was:
"There was a lot of good stuff that happened in that game but, unfortunately - classic move - we've picked out the negatives to look at, and I'm disappointed by that. If I get down on my belly, I probably score that. On another day, I probably do. And we're looking at five seconds of an 80-minute performance. So, yeah, fair play."
Yes Stuart, the score was 14-5 and you blew it. All he had to say was "Yeah, I made a mistake in hindsight I should have passed but wasn't expecting Keenan to make the tackle" of anything vaguely similar to that.

FWIW they did ask if he had any concerns over keeping the captaincy and the media guy came in immediately after he answered to say last question and that was the end of it.

Of course the player has a right of reply, he is active on social media where he can say his piece and has a wider reach than any journalist has. Or if his agent called up any one of the journalists they'd have someone ready to interview him quickly as seen with Finn Russell a couple years back,

[Big D]

I would say who cares really, but going by the column inches to this all ready and the comments on social media suggest that quite a few do and the views are pretty split.

[septic 9]

Of course the player has a right of reply, he is active on social media where he can say his piece and has a wider reach than any journalist has. Or if his agent called up any one of the journalists they'd have someone ready to interview him quickly as seen with Finn Russell a couple years back,

don't be daft. he has no right of reply in the media publications. Using social media to deal with this would be stupid. yes no doubt his agent could get an interview, but he'd have no control over how that interview was edited or presented; and criticised by the journalist if he asked for that control. He is in a no win situation with media

[septic 9]

Yes Stuart, the score was 14-5 and you blew it. All he had to say was "Yeah, I made a mistake in hindsight I should have passed but wasn't expecting Keenan to make the tackle" of anything vaguely similar to that.

FWIW they did ask if he had any concerns over keeping the captaincy and the media guy came in immediately after he answered to say last question and that was the end of it.

if you think just saying it was a mistake would have been the end of that, you're sadly mistaken. The media had decided they wanted a body. Bear in mind also we don't know how much of the replays Hogg had seen at that point.

They asked if he had concerns about keeping the captaincy? But not the guts to say to his face the things they are writing today? Meida training does not make you immune from emotional, from disappointment or hurt. But we have journalists who want no more than to knife a player at that point. Mainly journalists who have never played rugby and certainly never coached it at any level, but think they know better than a 3 time Lion and a proven head coach

To be clear, Hogg was not my choice for captain. Richie was and is. But we are where we are. Townsend will need to think again and decide whether to keep Hogg or move on from him, and I'd hardly be saying he is wrong if he moves on from Hogg

[Big D]

To be clear, Hogg was not my choice for captain. Richie was and is. But we are where we are. Townsend will need to think again and decide whether to keep Hogg or move on from him, and I'd hardly be saying he is wrong if he moves on from Hogg

There is much more to come out about this, which is part of the problem. If the rumour about Hogg being stripped of captaincy then reinstated is true it makes Townsend look very weak too especially after his senior backs decided to do what they did.

They'll hope time will help this become less messy but I'm doubtful.

[Scottish Caley Fan]

Fagerson went home to his family and "some of the lads ripped the arse out of it". It could have been "banter" but players are pretty media savvy these days.

The press conference has seen a shift even from Scottish journalists. The press conference questions weren't that tough or that sinister in tone. Dealing with the press is a part of their job and the answers Hogg gave were daft. It was the Scottish journalists first chance to ask about the protocol breach and they've just lost by 21 points there really wasn't many positives to ask about.

The first question about the non pass wasn't even a bad/tough question, it was a question about it being a pivitol moment and he starts his answer with "unfortunately its a classic you've picked out the negatives". It is also a very fair question to ask the captain, who lead a disciplinary breach, about said breach.

players are media savvy? Some are. All have media training, some will be better than others at dealing with it.
But players are also on a high, euphoric after a big win, just as their are down after bad loss. And their answers and demeanor reflect that.
Hogg dealt with the disciplinary question. What else does he say when it keeps getting repeated in one form or another? Keep hammering the same question at a press conference after a rugby game - what the fuck did the journos want? Did they want a head they could claim, a resignation? What? What could Hogg have said to appease them, stop them continuing in the same vein? We all know the answer is SFA.

Yes Fagerson will have had enough media training to know the connotations of saying "ripped the arse out of it" 24 hours after a game.

The press conference for Hogg was less than 5minutes of actual talking time and 4 questions to him about it were all different.

- How did the "stuff yesterday effect the game". "Knew we made a mistake... Best week of preparation..." etc.
- "What is your message to fans who would be disappointed to hear of senior players being disciplined the week of the game" - Didn't actually answer the question. "Main thing is we concentrate on us... Everything else is irrelevant"
- "Did you have to apologise to the team and coaches?" - "Yes...."
- "There is a lack of clarity over what actually happened...could you explain what happened?" - "What is out there is out there".

The Scottish rugby journalists have all been pretty fair to the players and coaches, the lack of answer to the last question and the wee comment afterwards has what has annoyed I think. Edit: I have just seen Robertson in the Mail has written GT should go.

Doesn't bother me how he speaks to the press, I would probably still keep him as one of the leadership group but he could have handled that better. So could the SRU by releasing the information earlier in the week instead of Friday. There were rumours as early in the week as Monday about it.

So has STV Rugby reporter Jamie Borthwick

https://news.stv.tv/sport/six-nations-q ... tuart-hogg

[Cameo]

Yeah it seems bizarre to single Scotland out for celebrating turnovers too much. There are so many teams that do this, and when playing without crowds the whole "create your own atmosphere" thing really took off. There might be some sort of point in there about Scotland not focussing on what's ahead of them, but again I'm just wondering why many Irish pundits are so, so bitter about anything to do with Scotland.

Yeah, the mass celebrations are a bit pathetic but I actually think we are not the worst.

Can easily imagine the same critics saying that there is no togetherness if someone forgets to slap someone else's bum.

These Irish critics really are obsessed. Looks like Ireland haven't won anything since 2018, when do they have to stop being happy?

[Big D]

Yeah it seems bizarre to single Scotland out for celebrating turnovers too much. There are so many teams that do this, and when playing without crowds the whole "create your own atmosphere" thing really took off. There might be some sort of point in there about Scotland not focussing on what's ahead of them, but again I'm just wondering why many Irish pundits are so, so bitter about anything to do with Scotland.

Yeah, the mass celebrations are a bit pathetic but I actually think we are not the worst.

Can easily imagine the same critics saying that there is no togetherness if someone forgets to slap someone else's bum.

These Irish critics really are obsessed. Looks like Ireland haven't won anything since 2018, when do they have to stop being happy?

Not that it detracts from your point but they won the triple crown on Saturday. Scotland should have had a live game for it too but laid an egg in Cardiff.

Granted it isn't the 6N or a GS, but it is something you need to win 3 games for, which would show a huge step forward for our lot considering 1 win v Ireland and Wales combined over the last 5 years.

[Cameo]

Yeah it seems bizarre to single Scotland out for celebrating turnovers too much. There are so many teams that do this, and when playing without crowds the whole "create your own atmosphere" thing really took off. There might be some sort of point in there about Scotland not focussing on what's ahead of them, but again I'm just wondering why many Irish pundits are so, so bitter about anything to do with Scotland.

Yeah, the mass celebrations are a bit pathetic but I actually think we are not the worst.

Can easily imagine the same critics saying that there is no togetherness if someone forgets to slap someone else's bum.

These Irish critics really are obsessed. Looks like Ireland haven't won anything since 2018, when do they have to stop being happy?

Not that it detracts from your point but they won the triple crown on Saturday. Scotland should have had a live game for it too but laid an egg in Cardiff.

Granted it isn't the 6N or a GS, but it is something you need to win 3 games for, which would show a huge step forward for our lot considering 1 win v Ireland and Wales combined over the last 5 years.

Meh, we won three games last year. Not that I am denying they are better than us and have been more successful-they just talk shite.

[septic 9]

Yeah, the mass celebrations are a bit pathetic but I actually think we are not the worst.

Can easily imagine the same critics saying that there is no togetherness if someone forgets to slap someone else's bum.

These Irish critics really are obsessed. Looks like Ireland haven't won anything since 2018, when do they have to stop being happy?

Not that it detracts from your point but they won the triple crown on Saturday. Scotland should have had a live game for it too but laid an egg in Cardiff.

Granted it isn't the 6N or a GS, but it is something you need to win 3 games for, which would show a huge step forward for our lot considering 1 win v Ireland and Wales combined over the last 5 years.

Meh, we won three games last year. Not that I am denying they are better than us and have been more successful-they just talk shite.

something else they are much better than us at

[General Zod]

It was good to see big dog Hogg was true to his words about learning from dropping the ball over the line in Dublin last time out. If he’d gone down on his belly, he’d have scored that one 9 times out of 10 too. Focus, practice, discipline, selflessness - what a leader.

As for Townsend - if he keeps picking the same players, he’ll get the same results. Far better to consign several of this lot to the dustbin and see where we can get with newer, supposedly less talented players in a few years’ time. We’ll probably win as many professional trophies as we have done for the last 2 decades.

[Big D]

The Thistle who had good information all 6N on selections are saying GT told them to get back to camp or be dropped. Johnson and Russell ignored him and were still picked in the matchday 23.

[Big D]

While the events of Saturday evening (and Sunday morning) are not entirely clear, and not just due to the strength of a Why Not jaeger bomb, we know from the SRU that Stuart Hogg, Finn Russell, Ali Price, Darcy Graham, Sam Johnson and Sione Tuipulotu were all disciplined for breaching team protocols after their Six Nations victory over Italy. While the Murrayfield media machine provided few details beyond this, the Thistle spies tell us that the following is rumoured to have taken place:

The players were told they were allowed a few drinks on the plane back from Rome to celebrate Ali Price’s 50th cap , but to leave it at that, with a recovery day planned for the Sunday

The six players mentioned decided to carry on the night out after landing in Edinburgh, despite the warnings of some back room staff members, and made their way to fabled George Street institution Why Not

Gregor Townsend somehow found out about the illicit night out (perhaps he had his suspicions and was surveying the Why Not Facebook page…), rang Hogg and ordered the players back to the hotel within thirty minutes, otherwise they would be dropped for the Ireland match

Some of the players obeyed the instruction (including Hoggy) but others such as Russell and Johnson carried on with their night

We understand that although Johnson returned to the hotel at c.4am, Russell instead went to his parents house in Stirlingshire, and failed to attend the next day’s recovery session

I don't doubt they have people in camp as they got every selection correct. Makes for tough reading. I think this will drag on with reviews to be done. Think it's the end of the road for Hogg as captain.

Read rumours that they have the number who stayed out until 4 wrong and Russell actually went home on Sunday morning from the hotel.

[septic 9]

The Thistle who had good information all 6N on selections are saying GT told them to get back to camp or be dropped. Johnson and Russell ignored him and were still picked in the matchday 23.

couple of points on this.

If true, then Townsend has no other natural 12 with the squad who can truck up ball, which seems a requirement for our game plan. Johnson, Tuiplotou and even Redpath can reasonably effectively (without any of them being a Dante or Tuilagi or Henshaw or Aki).
Redpath injured, so one of SJ and ST had to be in the squad. Harris is if anything an even bigger waste of space at 12 then 13. Has the physique to truck it up but doesn't us it well, no way can he play 2nd play maker; no hands and no kicking game. Nothing. That was why Harris got a few mins at 12 before being pulled in favour of out favour Russell who at least takes the ball to the line, can create or make breaks half breaks and can kick.
So much depth, no options. Cannot change the whole shape of the attack overnight.

Second, the Thistle podcast has only this series had decent info. So I wonder who is feeding them and why. Who benefits from briefing out this stuff? If I were SRU management and found out, they'd be history

[Mikey Brown]

But still missed the recovery session? I don’t get how he could make the 23 at all if that was the case.

[Big D]

The Thistle who had good information all 6N on selections are saying GT told them to get back to camp or be dropped. Johnson and Russell ignored him and were still picked in the matchday 23.

couple of points on this.

If true, then Townsend has no other natural 12 with the squad who can truck up ball, which seems a requirement for our game plan. Johnson, Tuiplotou and even Redpath can reasonably effectively (without any of them being a Dante or Tuilagi or Henshaw or Aki).
Redpath injured, so one of SJ and ST had to be in the squad. Harris is if anything an even bigger waste of space at 12 then 13. Has the physique to truck it up but doesn't us it well, no way can he play 2nd play maker; no hands and no kicking game. Nothing. That was why Harris got a few mins at 12 before being pulled in favour of out favour Russell who at least takes the ball to the line, can create or make breaks half breaks and can kick.
So much depth, no options. Cannot change the whole shape of the attack overnight.

What would Townsend had done if those two were injured? Adapt and move on. He and the attack coach had from Sunday morning to make any changes needed. Hastings was still with the squad. Tuipulotu could have been used in a "lesser of two evil" type of way if he had went back to the hotel when asked. "There's no one else" isn't a good enough not to maintain some sort of grip on squad discipline after he threatened to drop them if they didn't return (if that is what happened). At least 4 of them supposedly had the sense to head back when caught out. The other two knowingly staying out is sticking two fingers up at the coach and their team mates.

This is twice Russell has taken the piss whilst drinking. I am sure he'll be left out of the summer tour, but that's hardly a punishment when it was unlikely all the Lions would be going anyway.

Second, the Thistle podcast has only this series had decent info. So I wonder who is feeding them and why. Who benefits from briefing out this stuff? If I were SRU management and found out, they'd be history

What they've said was pretty much out there already bar potentially Johnson having stayed out. It is another botched job by the SRU. Trying to keep it quiet was always doomed to fail.

[Tobylerone]

It is another botched job by the SRU. Trying to keep it quiet was always doomed to fail.

Hmm.. Perhaps they could borrow a few of the Scot.Gov. Spads.

[septic 9]

What they've said was pretty much out there already bar potentially Johnson having stayed out. It is another botched job by the SRU. Trying to keep it quiet was always doomed to fail.

missing my point.
The SRU made a statement. No way were they going into fill minute by minute blow by blow detail. Nor should they. Someone on the inside is briefing out for their own purposes. Cui bono?

[stevedog1980]

Stick Hastings at 10, Kinghorn at 12 and see how they go!

[Cameo]

It was good to see big dog Hogg was true to his words about learning from dropping the ball over the line in Dublin last time out. If he’d gone down on his belly, he’d have scored that one 9 times out of 10 too. Focus, practice, discipline, selflessness - what a leader.

As for Townsend - if he keeps picking the same players, he’ll get the same results. Far better to consign several of this lot to the dustbin and see where we can get with newer, supposedly less talented players in a few years’ time. We’ll probably win as many professional trophies as we have done for the last 2 decades.

I get that you are pissed but this is nonsense. Yeah, we haven't won trophies, but this group of players have done so much better than any recent crop. They have played some great rugby along the way too. And Hogg has been a huge part of that.

I get that there are issues and some things need to change, but some people are acting like we have had a disastrous year/decade/whatever. We had the fourth best squad in the 6N and finished fourth. I'm disappointed with the performances after the start we had, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater or forget to enjoy the good wins we have.

To see how bad it might become, just have a look at the u20s.

[General Zod]

It was good to see big dog Hogg was true to his words about learning from dropping the ball over the line in Dublin last time out. If he’d gone down on his belly, he’d have scored that one 9 times out of 10 too. Focus, practice, discipline, selflessness - what a leader.

As for Townsend - if he keeps picking the same players, he’ll get the same results. Far better to consign several of this lot to the dustbin and see where we can get with newer, supposedly less talented players in a few years’ time. We’ll probably win as many professional trophies as we have done for the last 2 decades.

I get that you are pissed but this is nonsense. Yeah, we haven't won trophies, but this group of players have done so much better than any recent crop. They have played some great rugby along the way too. And Hogg has been a huge part of that.

I get that there are issues and some things need to change, but some people are acting like we have had a disastrous year/decade/whatever. We had the fourth best squad in the 6N and finished fourth. I'm disappointed with the performances after the start we had, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater or forget to enjoy the good wins we have.

To see how bad it might become, just have a look at the u20s.

We’ve had a poor year and a poor 2 decades. I’m not saying drop the lot, or that they can’t come back after a spell in the wilderness, but something revolutionary needs to be done. And we need to update the stadium significantly, if only to keep pace with the money others make from theirs.