Road to RWC 2023

[Mikey Brown]

Such a shame to miss out on the world cup. His body must be fucked for him to miss it. I doubt he's just went AWOL tbh.

Legend. 100 caps, 3 lions tours, top Scots try scorer and was imo a good captain. We are going to miss him.

I’m hoping it didn't play out the way I’d read a few days ago, for the sake of his legacy (letalone his poor wife and kids) but it’s a huge shame either way.

So much of the belief that we could do any serious damage to the top sides over the last 10 years has stemmed from Hogg. He’s adapted his game as his athletic ability has changed and I certainly felt form that interview with Paterson for his 100th cap that he’d grown a huge amount as a person.

[switchskier]

So Kinghorn to start and Smith definitely on the plane then. I suppose that Graham or Jones could also do the job in a pinch but it's no longer a position of strength.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah. I wonder if we rely on some combo of Jones/Graham/Steyn to cover 15 and start to include Healy in the 23 or being Smith in.

[Cameo]

Wouldn't the obvious step be to start Kinghorn at 15 and bring Hastings onto the bench (subject to form/fitness). Arguably even removes a couple of selection headaches - whether to start Hogg with his failing body, and what to do about backup 10.

Anyway, such a shame for him. Absolutely revolutionary player for us.

[Mikey Brown]

Wouldn't the obvious step be to start Kinghorn at 15 and bring Hastings onto the bench (subject to form/fitness). Arguably even removes a couple of selection headaches - whether to start Hogg with his failing body, and what to do about backup 10.

Anyway, such a shame for him. Absolutely revolutionary player for us.

Whoops. Meant to put Healy/Hastings.

I meant it more as whether we stick with this idea of Kinghorn covering 10 even if he is the starting fullback (while using others in the 23 to cover 15) or just bring in a dedicated 10 - which I would prefer.

[Cameo]

Yeah, I have been wondering that. With Hogg as starter, I was fully on board with Kinghorn covering 10, 11, 14, and 15. Seemed a waste to have a straight 10 on the bench. Even if Kinghorn overtook Hogg, I would have been up for the same (i.e. Hogg on the bench as he could have offered a lot).

With Hogg out, the least disruptive option we have is Hastings. He would be ahead of Healy as a ten for me anyway, but he also covers 15 to a reasonable standard. The other option is to have, say, Ollie Smith covering 15 on the basis Kinghorn can move but, while I like Smith, I'm not sure it is worth all the shuffling around that would bring (unlike of it was Hogg there).

[switchskier]

South Africa team that played the ABs today, with their ages. I had an inkling that their team was getting old, but in reality they should pretty much all be in or just at the end of their prime years. Experienced would be a more apt description.

6-2 split, though there has never been any secret about how they will play.

South Africa:
15 Willie le Roux, - 33
14 Cheslin Kolbe, - 29
13 Lukhanyo Am, - 29
12 Damian de Allende, - 31
11 Makazole Mapimpi, - 32
10 Damian Willemse, - 25
9 Faf de Klerk, - 31
8 Jasper Wiese, - 27
7 Franco Mostert, - 32
6 Kwagga Smith, - 30
5 Lood de Jager, - 28
4 Eben Etzebeth (c), - 31
3 Frans Malherbe, - 32
2 Bongi Mbonambi, - 32
1 Steven Kitshoff - 31

Replacements:
16 Malcolm Marx, - 29
17 Thomas du Toit, - 28
18 Vincent Koch, - 33
19 RG Snyman, - 28
20 Pieter-Steph du Toit, - 30
21 Duane Vermeulen, - 37
22 Grant Williams, - 27
23 Manie Libbok - 25

[Cameo]

Interesting. Maybe not old, but there is no one there that is young.

They took a bit of a beating, but had a spell second half where they piled numbers into the breakdown and caused some real trouble. Attacking clear out work is vital against them. Get that wrong and you'll be trying to deal with their rush defence with scrappy ball.

[Cameo]

I see Sexton has been banned until just before the World Cup, what a surprise. To be honest, I don't mind, would rather he plays than hear all the whining if he was banned.

[Mikey Brown]

That’s a fair point, but it does seem ridiculous it’s taken all this time to decide it’s just the same ban they seemingly give for basically everything.

Given what was supposed to have happened I assumed it was either not guilty or they throw the book at him. It’s not a split-second decision or a mistimed tackle.

Great player though and his unbearable on-field personality is part of the charm.

[Cameo]

First game this weekend. Any thoughts on the type of team we can expect? You would think anyone who might get cut will get a chance in one of these first two games. Maybe a debut for Cam Henderson and/or McDowall?

[Big D]

Game week.

Would like to see mostly the 1s getting a run out although I suspect that Finn might get the week off. I'd play a strong team this week and v France (A) and mix it up for the other games. think because SA is the first game and then Tonga follows we need the first choice guys firing. I saw they did a full contact game the other day in training but the focus really needs to be on the first choice guys getting right up to speed because to be frank they were a shambles v Ireland first game out last time and IIRC sluggish v Samoa. We aren't getting Japan midweek after a game or the USA as a second game. If we are not careful the world cup will be over after game 2. I'd like to see something like:

Schoeman
Ashman
Fagerson
GG
Gray Snr
Ritchie
Darge
Dempsey
White
Finn/Healy*
Duhan
Huwipulotu (12 and 13)
Graham
Kinghorn

We need the starting back 3 to get game time together whether Kinghorn or Smith to build up the communication between them. I suspect Hogg did a lot of talking to Duhan.

*Did I read somewhere that Hastings is/was injured?

[Mikey Brown]

It’s usually a safe assumption.

Do people feel like Dempsey has displaced Fagerson at 8? He’s found his feet for Scotland and I love the energy he brings, but Fagerson has been one of Scotlands best forwards for the last season or two.

I really hadn’t realised these games were happening so soon.

[Big D]

It’s usually a safe assumption.

Do people feel like Dempsey has displaced Fagerson at 8? He’s found his feet for Scotland and I love the energy he brings, but Fagerson has been one of Scotlands best forwards for the last season or two.

I really hadn’t realised these games were happening so soon.

I don't think he has displaced him necessarily, tbh he, plus Ashman, Kinghorn/Smith and maybe no Finn were the reason I said mostly the 1s. Although they swapped starts at the back end of the 6N so maybe GT wasn't sure either.

[septic 9]

It’s usually a safe assumption.

Do people feel like Dempsey has displaced Fagerson at 8? He’s found his feet for Scotland and I love the energy he brings, but Fagerson has been one of Scotlands best forwards for the last season or two.

I championed Richie before he is so much in fashion, and championed him for captain before Hogg was appointed. Now I feel he shouldn't feature in our best back row combination (Fagerson, Dempsey and Darge). Its a problem, but how times change and choices improve

[Mikey Brown]

I can see the appeal but I’m happy to still have Ritchie starting. As a voice on the field, in the lineout and over the ball he is still a big asset. Dempsey off the bench is a big plus for me.

I still have the feeling we’re going to end up trying to crowbar Watson in there somewhere.

[switchskier]

It’s usually a safe assumption.

Do people feel like Dempsey has displaced Fagerson at 8? He’s found his feet for Scotland and I love the energy he brings, but Fagerson has been one of Scotlands best forwards for the last season or two.

I championed Richie before he is so much in fashion, and championed him for captain before Hogg was appointed. Now I feel he shouldn't feature in our best back row combination (Fagerson, Dempsey and Darge). Its a problem, but how times change and choices improve

Horses for courses and gameplan surely. Darge has the most star potential but I'm good with the other four rotating and adding impact off the bench. Ritchie where we want to make the game niggly and off rhythm, Dempsey for the heavy duty stuff and Faegerson for a faster, wider game plan.

[Cameo]

I thought Dempsey was very good against Ireland in the 6N and that's a true test, but I'm a massive Fagerson fan. I think he does so much work and is really physical both in the carry and in defence. For me, he starts.

I can see septic's argument re Ritchie but hopefully he is all fully firing. Last year when he was missing we saw how important he can be, and I do think dropping your captain (rightly or wrongly) can create a sense of crisis, or at least that things are going wrong.

[Donny osmond]

I definitely think there's room for Dempsey and Fagerson at 6 & 8. Playing Ritchie and Watson at 6 & 7 kinda worked for a while but they both need to be firing on all cylinders and they don't seem to be right now. Fagerson has improved so much in the last 3 years that I would def be finding room for him in the squad, personally I prefer Dempsey at 8 so Fagerson would go at 6.

[septic 9]

I can see the appeal but I’m happy to still have Ritchie starting. As a voice on the field, in the lineout and over the ball he is still a big asset. Dempsey off the bench is a big plus for me.

I still have the feeling we’re going to end up trying to crowbar Watson in there somewhere.

nothing against Watson but that is a real concern. He hasn't been near his level of the 2 seasons leading up to the Lions tour, but even if he was, we have IMHO 4 better back row options and a 5th who offers so much more physical presence and plays 7.

Back to Richie. His line out has come on leaps and bound the last couple of seasons, which was a huge gap (not one necessarily his fault) and that is very much in his favour as the tallest option we have for the back row.
The voice on the park can be replaced (and maybe will be this week!)
But for me Richie should be an option to start at 7 or back row cover. Trouble is that Darge should be a shoe in at 7. He really is a class above the others, a generational player like Hogg or Russell

[Mikey Brown]

You say the voice on the park can be replaced as if our squad is overflowing with leaders and organisers. Who would be captain? Gilchrist?

I can't actually speak to Ritchie's form as I haven't seem him play in ages. I'd be inclined to stick with him unless we see that he really isn't deserving a spot on form through the warm-ups. I do agree it's tempting to try and get more physicality/carrying in there somewhere, but I'm never 100% on Ritchie as a 7 to be honest.

I agree Watson isn't demanding a spot anymore, but it just seems like a GT sort of thing to do. I do wonder why he hasn't been quite the same since the Lions. Just knackered? Playing through injuries? Confidence knocked by his brief test appearance? It's a shame as he deserved to start ahead of Curry on form but once the weekend/midweek sides fall in to place it's hard to then win a spot playing in the side 3 days later.

Agreed on Darge. He has to play.

[Cameo]

If Watson was on top form, he would have to go for me. We could then see between him and Darge. If he's not, I agree, he becomes vulnerable.

I agree with MB about Ritchie at 7. He can do a job there, but I think he is a 6. He is relatively lightweight but gets in people's faces as does the dirty work. I think he is still our first choice there, just. It could become very difficult depending on form over the next month or so though. It is also not a bad thing to be able to bring either Dempsey or Fagerson off the bench.

[Big D]

I've said for a while that Watson would be one that misses out on the squad for me.

[Mikey Brown]

I guess it comes down to how much GT trusts Crosbie. I was excited to see him play in the 6 nations but he didn't particularly stand out - although he started in 2 good wins at the beginning of the tournament. If we're only going with 5 I just don't see him being viewed as having the experience.

[Big D]

I guess it comes down to how much GT trusts Crosbie. I was excited to see him play in the 6 nations but he didn't particularly stand out - although he started in 2 good wins at the beginning of the tournament. If we're only going with 5 I just don't see him being viewed as having the experience.

Crosbie was fine in the 6N, played his part in two good wins. The gameplay meant we didn't challenge the breakdown so he was effectively a 6.

He has the experience to play v Romania. Ritchie would be the back up 7 with Fagerson/Dempsey filling in at 7 if there was an injury to Darge for big games.

Two specialist 7s and only 7s is a luxury we don't need IMO. Especially for a WC in Frace where a call up can happen quickly if need be.