RugbyRebels

No. But there are apparently moves to try and bring him back to England by the end of his U20's, where him playing in France doesn't matter. Had heard the RFU are working with Bath on this one. They see him as a talent that we cannot lose, and he is very committed to England at the moment, but obviously a flight risk.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:27 am No. But there are apparently moves to try and bring him back to England by the end of his U20's, where him playing in France doesn't matter. Had heard the RFU are working with Bath on this one. They see him as a talent that we cannot lose, and he is very committed to England at the moment, but obviously a flight risk.

Bath going to reinvest that Jacques du Plessis money? Would be a great signing for them.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:27 am No. But there are apparently moves to try and bring him back to England by the end of his U20's, where him playing in France doesn't matter. Had heard the RFU are working with Bath on this one. They see him as a talent that we cannot lose, and he is very committed to England at the moment, but obviously a flight risk.

That is very good news and shows an unusual amount of joined up thinking from the RFU. Would've thought he'd be a massive asset and likely immediate starter for a lot of Prem clubs if he keeps kicking on as he is.

Puja

Which Kpoku is which, and where do they even play?

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:35 am Which Kpoku is which, and where do they even play?

Junior Kpoku is the youngest who was part of the England U20 world cup winning side, despite still being an U18 at the time. He was at Sarries academy, moved to Exeter academy for a few months and then went to Racing92. Has played a fair bit this season for them already, at 6 and lock, despite only being 18/19 at the time. He's seen as arguabaly the best forward coming out of schoolboy rugby in the world at the moment, and would be a potential huge loss to English rugby.

His older brothers are the twins Joel and Jonathan. Joel went to Lyon and then moved to Section Paloise for this season. Jonathan dropped down into the Champ and then also moved to France, but hasn't done much of note.

Cheers for that. I feel like I've seen the name pop up on so many teamsheets you'd have thought there were 8 of them.

That's quite an endorsement for Junior (I now realise that's actually his name and he's not just the younger one) and the concern is he'd basically become French if he continues making such an impact over there?

Is it clear if he's more of a 6 or lock? Seems like some players happily rotate between the two, particularly when they're younger, but ideally you want them to be able to focus their training and conditioning to one or the other.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:50 am Cheers for that. I feel like I've seen the name pop up on so many teamsheets you'd have thought there were 8 of them.

That's quite an endorsement for Junior (I now realise that's actually his name and he's not just the younger one) and the concern is he'd basically become French if he continues making such an impact over there?

Is it clear if he's more of a 6 or lock? Seems like some players happily rotate between the two, particularly when they're younger, but ideally you want them to be able to focus their training and conditioning to one or the other.

I'd regard him as a lock every day of the week. He's a big lad (6'8 and 18st10 at age 19!) and he's looked very natural there for England U20s - he's probably only a back row in certain French-style packs where they're overloading the bosh to try and overpower someone. Very much like Martin - you probably could train him up to be a full-time 6 and he could do it, but why on earth would you want to?

He'd become French in October 2028, by my reckoning, so he'd be 23. Very plausible, especially with him soon becoming JIFF and the French loving a big lock forward. Will be very happy if the RFU can lure him back - the 2027 RWC is not an impossible target for him, so it's possibly a carrot.

Puja

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:40 am Jonathan dropped down into the Champ and then also moved to France, but hasn't done much of note.

He's at Albi iirc think they are third tier. He's the only one of the three we shouldn't be actively trying to bring back to the Prem. All three of them are absolute units and mobile with it.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:50 am Cheers for that. I feel like I've seen the name pop up on so many teamsheets you'd have thought there were 8 of them.

That's quite an endorsement for Junior (I now realise that's actually his name and he's not just the younger one) and the concern is he'd basically become French if he continues making such an impact over there?

Is it clear if he's more of a 6 or lock? Seems like some players happily rotate between the two, particularly when they're younger, but ideally you want them to be able to focus their training and conditioning to one or the other.

He's more of a lock, who can play 6. He's one of a number of serious good locks coming through. There's like 6 of them over two year groups who could easily be internationals if (big IF) they realise their potential.

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 10:41 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:50 am Cheers for that. I feel like I've seen the name pop up on so many teamsheets you'd have thought there were 8 of them.

That's quite an endorsement for Junior (I now realise that's actually his name and he's not just the younger one) and the concern is he'd basically become French if he continues making such an impact over there?

Is it clear if he's more of a 6 or lock? Seems like some players happily rotate between the two, particularly when they're younger, but ideally you want them to be able to focus their training and conditioning to one or the other.

I'd regard him as a lock every day of the week. He's a big lad (6'8 and 18st10 at age 19!) and he's looked very natural there for England U20s - he's probably only a back row in certain French-style packs where they're overloading the bosh to try and overpower someone. Very much like Martin - you probably could train him up to be a full-time 6 and he could do it, but why on earth would you want to?

He'd become French in October 2028, by my reckoning, so he'd be 23. Very plausible, especially with him soon becoming JIFF and the French loving a big lock forward. Will be very happy if the RFU can lure him back - the 2027 RWC is not an impossible target for him, so it's possibly a carrot.

Puja

I think he could be there or there abouts by 2027. Hopefully Faz will bully him into coming back.

Looping back to this, my thoughts on team are:

1 Iyogun
2 Oghre
3 Opoku-Fordjour
4 Batley
5 Tizard
6 Hill
7 Pepper
8 Willis
9 Porter
10 Bailey
11 Murley
12 S. Atkinson
13 Beard
14 Elliott
15 Carpenter

16 Jibilu
17 Brantingham
18 Fasogbon
19 Munga
20 Fisilau
21 McParland
22 C. Atkinson
23 Redshaw

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 11:02 am Looping back to this, my thoughts on team are:

1 Iyogun
2 Oghre
3 Opoku-Fordjour
4 Batley
5 Tizard
6 Hill
7 Pepper
8 Willis
9 Porter
10 Bailey
11 Murley
12 S. Atkinson
13 Beard
14 Elliott
15 Carpenter

16 Jibilu
17 Brantingham
18 Fasogbon
19 Munga
20 Fisilau
21 McParland
22 C. Atkinson
23 Redshaw

10 looks a bit threadbare, doesn't it?

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 11:49 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 11:02 am Looping back to this, my thoughts on team are:

1 Iyogun
2 Oghre
3 Opoku-Fordjour
4 Batley
5 Tizard
6 Hill
7 Pepper
8 Willis
9 Porter
10 Bailey
11 Murley
12 S. Atkinson
13 Beard
14 Elliott
15 Carpenter

16 Jibilu
17 Brantingham
18 Fasogbon
19 Munga
20 Fisilau
21 McParland
22 C. Atkinson
23 Redshaw

10 looks a bit threadbare, doesn't it?

I think, while it won't be a popular opinion on here, that you'd have to pick Skinner above Bailey and CAtkinson, considering neither of them look remotely likely to have regular starting spots for their clubs (although probably Shillcock above all three in my opinion). It's not hugely relevant for the main England team, considering we've got Ford, Smith, Smith, then probably Furbank before we needed to go into our fifth choice 10.

In other news, apparently an A game against the All Blacks XV is being organised for next season (with rumour further stating it'll be held in the north of England), so there's good plans going forwards.

Puja

I'd disagree and say Bailey is the best if the other 10s. I don't think him starting for Bath is a massive point in terms of A team selection. It's already been said the A team squad will be used to develop younger players. Harvey Skinner is 26 and bar a massive injury crisis is never going to pull on a starting England journey. Same for Shillcock. Doesn't mean they are bad players they just aren't going to make that step up. I'd rather focus on those that could.

Possibly controversial but I'd drop Oghre from EP's suggested squad for a similar reason. He's closer than Skinner to full honours but probably not close enough so I'd look at Blake instead. Particularly as Blake is also dual qualified and that rare mix of size and mobility.

Dual qualified you say...?

Yeah, Blake is qualified for Australia.

On the 10s, I think Charlie Atkinson was good yesterday. I don’t know if I see him troubling the full squad any time soon, but I’d be happy enough to give him the shirt for the A side.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 11:49 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 11:02 am Looping back to this, my thoughts on team are:

1 Iyogun
2 Oghre
3 Opoku-Fordjour
4 Batley
5 Tizard
6 Hill
7 Pepper
8 Willis
9 Porter
10 Bailey
11 Murley
12 S. Atkinson
13 Beard
14 Elliott
15 Carpenter

16 Jibilu
17 Brantingham
18 Fasogbon
19 Munga
20 Fisilau
21 McParland
22 C. Atkinson
23 Redshaw

10 looks a bit threadbare, doesn't it?

Aye. There was the age group where Smith (F), Bailey and Atkinson (C) came through together, wherein then the clever money was on Fin being the pick of the bunch, which has proven true so far. After that you had Jamie Benson and Louie Johnson, both highly rated but neither really made headway in senior rugby yet. Then you're into the Rory Taylors of the world, who are fresh out of U20s. Before Smith, Bailey and Atkinson we have Manu Vunipola, Hayden-Wood and Barton, and then one Marcus Smith. All a bit meh, maybe could be, with a very small sprinkle of stardust.

The next crop has two superb talents in it, with Ollie Davies, who is now U20 and James Linegar who is still U18.

On a related note, I emailed the RFU complaining about the absurd uplift to tix for the A game at The Stoop on 17/11. We'll see what, if anything, transpires..,

"Dear Sir or Madam,

This is a whinge concerning the ridiculous handling fees charged by Ticketmaster – the RFUs official agent - for the England A game against Australia at the Stoop on 17/11/24. I enclose a screenshot of the charges.

Please can you explain why your agent charges a 26% uplift on a £25 ticket? It is all automated and tickets are e-delivery. It reflects badly on the RFU.

I note that there is no handling charge on tickets to the main game (though the tickets, are of course more expensive) You use eticketing rather than Ticketmaster for the major internationals.

I’d be interested in your comments."

The board wont upload my screenshot, but they add a "Service Fee" of £3.50 and a "Handling Charge"of £2.95 to a £25 ticket = £31.95.( I declined to buy it and may possibly rock up on the day. But they have lost a sale)

I don't know how much you know about Ticketmaster, but yeah, that's pretty much the business model. Corner the market and exploit it.

Matt Stoller on Ticketmaster... https://open.substack.com/pub/mattstoll ... cketmaster

We can but hope. But the RFU engages them over other suppliers...

The RFU have acknowledged my email and passed it to: "our ticketing and debenture team who will be in touch with you shortly". Which is prompt so far.

Hi - reply from RFU
"First of all, sorry to hear of your dissatisfaction at the fees being charged for this game. It is a game played under the auspices of a different organisation to the RFU, so they get to decide the fees for booking tickets and this is out of our hands, plus because it is being sold by Ticketmaster and not us, they get to charge a fee as well. I will ensure that your feedback is passed on though.

Our online website is hosted by Ticketmaster but we get to decide on booking fees etc for our events."

The piss take on ticket fees is ridiculous these days. Ticketmaster are well known for their morally questionable practices.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma- ... cert-sales

They aren't the only ones. I bought some tickets for a gig in London last month, quoted an admin charge of roughly 15% of one ticket. Thought it was about the norm. Got charged it for all three tickets. Feckin' cheek. It's not really an admin charge at that point it's just lying about the ticket price.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:24 pm I'd disagree and say Bailey is the best if the other 10s. I don't think him starting for Bath is a massive point in terms of A team selection. It's already been said the A team squad will be used to develop younger players. Harvey Skinner is 26 and bar a massive injury crisis is never going to pull on a starting England journey. Same for Shillcock. Doesn't mean they are bad players they just aren't going to make that step up. I'd rather focus on those that could.

I get the logic there and probably support it in theory, but I don't see Bailey making it at the top level either.

CAtkinson does have a chance though, so on that logic, I'd support him, assuming Burke doesn't want to tie himself down with an A cap.

Puja

Ibitoye not even on the bench?

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 5:38 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:24 pm I'd disagree and say Bailey is the best if the other 10s. I don't think him starting for Bath is a massive point in terms of A team selection. It's already been said the A team squad will be used to develop younger players. Harvey Skinner is 26 and bar a massive injury crisis is never going to pull on a starting England journey. Same for Shillcock. Doesn't mean they are bad players they just aren't going to make that step up. I'd rather focus on those that could.

I get the logic there and probably support it in theory, but I don't see Bailey making it at the top level either.

CAtkinson does have a chance though, so on that logic, I'd support him, assuming Burke doesn't want to tie himself down with an A cap.

Puja

CAtkinson seems have been little game management or kicking game. Great when he's attacking ball in hand with a backline that wants to run but rest of the time pretty meh.

Orlando Bailey I think is good enough to be the starting 10 for a Prem side now. Really good all round game. Possibly an error on his part committing to Bath until 2026. He's going to sit behind the mega signing Russell and play periodically. If he was on the market this summer both Tigers and Bristol would be very interested when looking at who to bring into the 10 shirt. He's no finished article but I'd trust him to do a good job.