Tigers Vs Quins - Saturday 3.15

[Mikey Brown]

What happened? Completely missed the game. Clash in the air?

[FKAS]

What happened? Completely missed the game. Clash in the air?

He charged Steward's knee with his face to take Steward out in the air. Got knocked out and stayed out for several minutes. It was the second time he'd taken out Steward in the air as well so second yellow card.

[Banquo]

Have England got a better 12 than Woodward?

Dingwall? At present anyway.

[FKAS]

Have England got a better 12 than Woodward?

Dingwall? At present anyway.

Seb Atkinson?

Joe Woodward is developing very nicely indeed. A little more aggression when carrying into contact and better ball placement would certainly help. Reads the game very well and has tended to attack at 12 but defend at 13 when alongside Kata. Might tour in the summer in an apprentice style role, depending on who's available.

[Oakboy]

Have England got a better 12 than Woodward?

Dingwall? At present anyway.

Seb Atkinson?

Joe Woodward is developing very nicely indeed. A little more aggression when carrying into contact and better ball placement would certainly help. Reads the game very well and has tended to attack at 12 but defend at 13 when alongside Kata. Might tour in the summer in an apprentice style role, depending on who's available.

Funnily enough, I was thinking of Seb Atkinson when I posted. Whenever I've watched him he has been inconsistent whereas Woodward contributes regularly throughout 80 minutes and makes less mistakes.

I think Dingwall is solid. On commentary they mentioned the Saints coach as saying he's not the biggest or the quickest but he's effective (or words to that effect). I'd pick Dingwall and Freeman at 12/13 for an England match tomorrow but I think Woodward will overtake Dingwall soon.

At least we are discussing three genuine 12s who start there (usually) for their clubs.

[Which Tyler]

Woodward's okay, but I don't see what he's done to overtake the big 3 names that keep getting mentioned.
Probably ahead of Hartley and Maasi-White though, for now

[Oakboy]

Woodward's okay, but I don't see what he's done to overtake the big 3 names that keep getting mentioned.
Probably ahead of Hartley and Maasi-White though, for now

I don't think it's just discovering two pacey wingers that's transformed Leicester's backline. Nor is it just JVP getting back to form. Woodward is linking and is on the edge of controlling, IMO. He's an integral part of a firing backline. I assume your 3 names are Dingwall, Atkinson and Ojomoh? All three are certainly useful club 12s. Dingwall has fitted in at international level without (yet?) impressing to the extent of cementing the shirt long-term. The other two have not yet had a run. Of the four, I'd suggest that Woodward has the highest ceiling and at least deserves consideration.

[FKAS]

The Tigers backline has found a nice balance now and you're right part of that is definitely down to Woodward in at centre. He does provide that midfield link that just gives more fluency to the attack. Thankfully Chieka eventually moved on from partnering Kata and Perese though injury has forced his hand. JvP coming back to full form, Woodward being a secondary midfield distributor and Steward taking on an almost third centre role in attack at times all has really helped. Is making it hard to target our decision maker whereas earlier in the season it was target 9 and 10 and watch the backline grind to a halt.

Having two pacey wingers that can finish really does help though. Earlier in the season teams barely had to bother marking our right wing.

[Banquo]

Have England got a better 12 than Woodward?

Dingwall? At present anyway.

Seb Atkinson?

Joe Woodward is developing very nicely indeed. A little more aggression when carrying into contact and better ball placement would certainly help. Reads the game very well and has tended to attack at 12 but defend at 13 when alongside Kata. Might tour in the summer in an apprentice style role, depending on who's available.

Yep also Seb.

[Banquo]

Woodward's okay, but I don't see what he's done to overtake the big 3 names that keep getting mentioned.
Probably ahead of Hartley and Maasi-White though, for now

I don't think it's just discovering two pacey wingers that's transformed Leicester's backline. Nor is it just JVP getting back to form. Woodward is linking and is on the edge of controlling, IMO. He's an integral part of a firing backline. I assume your 3 names are Dingwall, Atkinson and Ojomoh? All three are certainly useful club 12s. Dingwall has fitted in at international level without (yet?) impressing to the extent of cementing the shirt long-term. The other two have not yet had a run. Of the four, I'd suggest that Woodward has the highest ceiling and at least deserves consideration.

Why has he a ‘higher ceiling’- how are you defining that. For example, Dingwall is a terrific decision maker in attack and defence….international level imo.
Mind they were speculating he might get a lions spot during the Saints game yesterday....not sure about that tbh.

[Oakboy]

Woodward's okay, but I don't see what he's done to overtake the big 3 names that keep getting mentioned.
Probably ahead of Hartley and Maasi-White though, for now

I don't think it's just discovering two pacey wingers that's transformed Leicester's backline. Nor is it just JVP getting back to form. Woodward is linking and is on the edge of controlling, IMO. He's an integral part of a firing backline. I assume your 3 names are Dingwall, Atkinson and Ojomoh? All three are certainly useful club 12s. Dingwall has fitted in at international level without (yet?) impressing to the extent of cementing the shirt long-term. The other two have not yet had a run. Of the four, I'd suggest that Woodward has the highest ceiling and at least deserves consideration.

Why has he a ‘higher ceiling’- how are you defining that. For example, Dingwall is a terrific decision maker in attack and defence….international level imo.
Mind they were speculating he might get a lions spot during the Saints game yesterday....not sure about that tbh.

I suggest his higher ceiling relates to his all-round package, meaning physicality, athleticism, skill-set and decision-making. He seems to me to be comfortable under pressure in attack and defence. He links well and runs good lines. Obviously, he is not the finished article but he gets better game-on-game as far as I can judge. He does the simple things well and gets his body in the right place at the right time. I'd guess that he has the right attitude to learning from the likes of Pollard (based on his apparent willingness to work hard at supporting).

It's all subjective but I like his attitude above all - doing the non-flashy stuff and working his nuts off. Eventually, I think he could be a Dingwall with more pace and grunt - possibly!

I find it hard to praise players from Saracens or Leicester - based on daft historical prejudice. Others rave about Seb Atkinson and, so far, I just can't see it - despite liking Gloucester. Of all the IC candidates I just like Woodward the most, so far.

[Banquo]

I don't think it's just discovering two pacey wingers that's transformed Leicester's backline. Nor is it just JVP getting back to form. Woodward is linking and is on the edge of controlling, IMO. He's an integral part of a firing backline. I assume your 3 names are Dingwall, Atkinson and Ojomoh? All three are certainly useful club 12s. Dingwall has fitted in at international level without (yet?) impressing to the extent of cementing the shirt long-term. The other two have not yet had a run. Of the four, I'd suggest that Woodward has the highest ceiling and at least deserves consideration.

Why has he a ‘higher ceiling’- how are you defining that. For example, Dingwall is a terrific decision maker in attack and defence….international level imo.
Mind they were speculating he might get a lions spot during the Saints game yesterday....not sure about that tbh.

I suggest his higher ceiling relates to his all-round package, meaning physicality, athleticism, skill-set and decision-making. He seems to me to be comfortable under pressure in attack and defence. He links well and runs good lines. Obviously, he is not the finished article but he gets better game-on-game as far as I can judge. He does the simple things well and gets his body in the right place at the right time. I'd guess that he has the right attitude to learning from the likes of Pollard (based on his apparent willingness to work hard at supporting).

It's all subjective but I like his attitude above all - doing the non-flashy stuff and working his nuts off. Eventually, I think he could be a Dingwall with more pace and grunt - possibly!

I find it hard to praise players from Saracens or Leicester - based on daft historical prejudice. Others rave about Seb Atkinson and, so far, I just can't see it - despite liking Gloucester. Of all the IC candidates I just like Woodward the most, so far.

Fair enough, tho I can see why people rate Atkinson not yet Woodward, tho seen little of him. I also like a nuts and bolts centre.

[Banquo]

I don't think it's just discovering two pacey wingers that's transformed Leicester's backline. Nor is it just JVP getting back to form. Woodward is linking and is on the edge of controlling, IMO. He's an integral part of a firing backline. I assume your 3 names are Dingwall, Atkinson and Ojomoh? All three are certainly useful club 12s. Dingwall has fitted in at international level without (yet?) impressing to the extent of cementing the shirt long-term. The other two have not yet had a run. Of the four, I'd suggest that Woodward has the highest ceiling and at least deserves consideration.

Why has he a ‘higher ceiling’- how are you defining that. For example, Dingwall is a terrific decision maker in attack and defence….international level imo.
Mind they were speculating he might get a lions spot during the Saints game yesterday....not sure about that tbh.

I suggest his higher ceiling relates to his all-round package, meaning physicality, athleticism, skill-set and decision-making. He seems to me to be comfortable under pressure in attack and defence. He links well and runs good lines. Obviously, he is not the finished article but he gets better game-on-game as far as I can judge. He does the simple things well and gets his body in the right place at the right time. I'd guess that he has the right attitude to learning from the likes of Pollard (based on his apparent willingness to work hard at supporting).

It's all subjective but I like his attitude above all - doing the non-flashy stuff and working his nuts off. Eventually, I think he could be a Dingwall with more pace and grunt - possibly!

I find it hard to praise players from Saracens or Leicester - based on daft historical prejudice. Others rave about Seb Atkinson and, so far, I just can't see it - despite liking Gloucester. Of all the IC candidates I just like Woodward the most, so far.

Atkinson having a belter so far...Exeter a tad poor tho. Really good handling

[Oakboy]

Why has he a ‘higher ceiling’- how are you defining that. For example, Dingwall is a terrific decision maker in attack and defence….international level imo.
Mind they were speculating he might get a lions spot during the Saints game yesterday....not sure about that tbh.

I suggest his higher ceiling relates to his all-round package, meaning physicality, athleticism, skill-set and decision-making. He seems to me to be comfortable under pressure in attack and defence. He links well and runs good lines. Obviously, he is not the finished article but he gets better game-on-game as far as I can judge. He does the simple things well and gets his body in the right place at the right time. I'd guess that he has the right attitude to learning from the likes of Pollard (based on his apparent willingness to work hard at supporting).

It's all subjective but I like his attitude above all - doing the non-flashy stuff and working his nuts off. Eventually, I think he could be a Dingwall with more pace and grunt - possibly!

I find it hard to praise players from Saracens or Leicester - based on daft historical prejudice. Others rave about Seb Atkinson and, so far, I just can't see it - despite liking Gloucester. Of all the IC candidates I just like Woodward the most, so far.

Atkinson having a belter so far...Exeter a tad poor tho. Really good handling

He is doing well surrounded by the Welsh guys.

[Banquo]

I suggest his higher ceiling relates to his all-round package, meaning physicality, athleticism, skill-set and decision-making. He seems to me to be comfortable under pressure in attack and defence. He links well and runs good lines. Obviously, he is not the finished article but he gets better game-on-game as far as I can judge. He does the simple things well and gets his body in the right place at the right time. I'd guess that he has the right attitude to learning from the likes of Pollard (based on his apparent willingness to work hard at supporting).

It's all subjective but I like his attitude above all - doing the non-flashy stuff and working his nuts off. Eventually, I think he could be a Dingwall with more pace and grunt - possibly!

I find it hard to praise players from Saracens or Leicester - based on daft historical prejudice. Others rave about Seb Atkinson and, so far, I just can't see it - despite liking Gloucester. Of all the IC candidates I just like Woodward the most, so far.

Atkinson having a belter so far...Exeter a tad poor tho. Really good handling

He is doing well surrounded by the Welsh guys.

harris is scots

Exeter v weak, but Atkinson been near faultless

[Puja]

He is doing well surrounded by the Welsh guys.

harris is scots

Puja

[Banquo]

He is doing well surrounded by the Welsh guys.

harris is scots

Puja

borrrrn in


Carlisle

but deffo not welsh

[Epaminondas Pules]

I don't think it's just discovering two pacey wingers that's transformed Leicester's backline. Nor is it just JVP getting back to form. Woodward is linking and is on the edge of controlling, IMO. He's an integral part of a firing backline. I assume your 3 names are Dingwall, Atkinson and Ojomoh? All three are certainly useful club 12s. Dingwall has fitted in at international level without (yet?) impressing to the extent of cementing the shirt long-term. The other two have not yet had a run. Of the four, I'd suggest that Woodward has the highest ceiling and at least deserves consideration.

Why has he a ‘higher ceiling’- how are you defining that. For example, Dingwall is a terrific decision maker in attack and defence….international level imo.
Mind they were speculating he might get a lions spot during the Saints game yesterday....not sure about that tbh.

I suggest his higher ceiling relates to his all-round package, meaning physicality, athleticism, skill-set and decision-making. He seems to me to be comfortable under pressure in attack and defence. He links well and runs good lines. Obviously, he is not the finished article but he gets better game-on-game as far as I can judge. He does the simple things well and gets his body in the right place at the right time. I'd guess that he has the right attitude to learning from the likes of Pollard (based on his apparent willingness to work hard at supporting).

It's all subjective but I like his attitude above all - doing the non-flashy stuff and working his nuts off. Eventually, I think he could be a Dingwall with more pace and grunt - possibly!

I find it hard to praise players from Saracens or Leicester - based on daft historical prejudice. Others rave about Seb Atkinson and, so far, I just can't see it - despite liking Gloucester. Of all the IC candidates I just like Woodward the most, so far.

I've known Woody for years. He's a top lad, and works damn hard at his game. He's still lacking consistency, and to a certain extent still finding his feet at the higher level of Prem rugby, having played a decent amount of Champ and Prem cup. But then I'd expect that with only 8 starts and 12 games in the Prem. He has one of those intangible things, which is the appearance of time on the ball. He's making better decisions, but still the odd mistake. Defence needs work. It is OK. But it's a definite work on. Most decision making and positioning. Core tackling technique is fine.

I'd have him fourth in the list of potentials as it stands. Especially with Hartley being a bit up and down.

Who knows where his ceiling is. Frankly they've all got a lot of improvement in them. Atkinson and Woody are 22 and 21 respectively.

[Scrumhead]

I suggest his higher ceiling relates to his all-round package, meaning physicality, athleticism, skill-set and decision-making. He seems to me to be comfortable under pressure in attack and defence. He links well and runs good lines. Obviously, he is not the finished article but he gets better game-on-game as far as I can judge. He does the simple things well and gets his body in the right place at the right time. I'd guess that he has the right attitude to learning from the likes of Pollard (based on his apparent willingness to work hard at supporting).

It's all subjective but I like his attitude above all - doing the non-flashy stuff and working his nuts off. Eventually, I think he could be a Dingwall with more pace and grunt - possibly!

I find it hard to praise players from Saracens or Leicester - based on daft historical prejudice. Others rave about Seb Atkinson and, so far, I just can't see it - despite liking Gloucester. Of all the IC candidates I just like Woodward the most, so far.

Atkinson having a belter so far...Exeter a tad poor tho. Really good handling

He is doing well surrounded by the Welsh guys.

Weird comment. He’s been excellent this season and is critical to how Gloucester play but he was equally good in a struggling team (and no Welsh guys) last season.

Woodward’s doing well next to a RWC winner … what’s the point your trying to make?

[FKAS]

Why has he a ‘higher ceiling’- how are you defining that. For example, Dingwall is a terrific decision maker in attack and defence….international level imo.
Mind they were speculating he might get a lions spot during the Saints game yesterday....not sure about that tbh.

I suggest his higher ceiling relates to his all-round package, meaning physicality, athleticism, skill-set and decision-making. He seems to me to be comfortable under pressure in attack and defence. He links well and runs good lines. Obviously, he is not the finished article but he gets better game-on-game as far as I can judge. He does the simple things well and gets his body in the right place at the right time. I'd guess that he has the right attitude to learning from the likes of Pollard (based on his apparent willingness to work hard at supporting).

It's all subjective but I like his attitude above all - doing the non-flashy stuff and working his nuts off. Eventually, I think he could be a Dingwall with more pace and grunt - possibly!

I find it hard to praise players from Saracens or Leicester - based on daft historical prejudice. Others rave about Seb Atkinson and, so far, I just can't see it - despite liking Gloucester. Of all the IC candidates I just like Woodward the most, so far.

I've known Woody for years. He's a top lad, and works damn hard at his game. He's still lacking consistency, and to a certain extent still finding his feet at the higher level of Prem rugby, having played a decent amount of Champ and Prem cup. But then I'd expect that with only 8 starts and 12 games in the Prem. He has one of those intangible things, which is the appearance of time on the ball. He's making better decisions, but still the odd mistake. Defence needs work. It is OK. But it's a definite work on. Most decision making and positioning. Core tackling technique is fine.

I'd have him fourth in the list of potentials as it stands. Especially with Hartley being a bit up and down.

Who knows where his ceiling is. Frankly they've all got a lot of improvement in them. Atkinson and Woody are 22 and 21 respectively.

Not that I hold much on the Tigers offy as being particularly reliable in terms of view points but generally the view on there is that he is consistent and reliable. Does make the occasional mistake but that is an experience thing you get from younger players. He being key to keeping that midfield working.

Personally I think he's a bit of a throw back. He's the almost secondary flyhalf type of 12 that Tigers used to love (Howard, Gibson, Mauger). They've fallen a bit out of fashion in recent times but you're spot on with the time on the ball, he just has a bit of footwork to buy him time to move the ball. His decision making when carrying the ball into contact and ball placement need a little work but again an experience thing. The more he plays the better he'll get and he should be playing plenty more this season as long as he stays fit.

[TheNomad]

Woodward and Atkinson both look like genuine prospects. I'd say Atkinson has a notably larger back catalogue of eye catching performances. I wouldn't say either obviously look better prospects than the other. I would also back both, injury permitting, to be better 12s than most, if not all of the incumbents we've seen for England in recent years. Really good players. I prefer them both, certainly at this stage of their careers, to Ojomoh, who seems well liked.

I'd be happy with both touring this summer

[Epaminondas Pules]

I suggest his higher ceiling relates to his all-round package, meaning physicality, athleticism, skill-set and decision-making. He seems to me to be comfortable under pressure in attack and defence. He links well and runs good lines. Obviously, he is not the finished article but he gets better game-on-game as far as I can judge. He does the simple things well and gets his body in the right place at the right time. I'd guess that he has the right attitude to learning from the likes of Pollard (based on his apparent willingness to work hard at supporting).

It's all subjective but I like his attitude above all - doing the non-flashy stuff and working his nuts off. Eventually, I think he could be a Dingwall with more pace and grunt - possibly!

I find it hard to praise players from Saracens or Leicester - based on daft historical prejudice. Others rave about Seb Atkinson and, so far, I just can't see it - despite liking Gloucester. Of all the IC candidates I just like Woodward the most, so far.

I've known Woody for years. He's a top lad, and works damn hard at his game. He's still lacking consistency, and to a certain extent still finding his feet at the higher level of Prem rugby, having played a decent amount of Champ and Prem cup. But then I'd expect that with only 8 starts and 12 games in the Prem. He has one of those intangible things, which is the appearance of time on the ball. He's making better decisions, but still the odd mistake. Defence needs work. It is OK. But it's a definite work on. Most decision making and positioning. Core tackling technique is fine.

I'd have him fourth in the list of potentials as it stands. Especially with Hartley being a bit up and down.

Who knows where his ceiling is. Frankly they've all got a lot of improvement in them. Atkinson and Woody are 22 and 21 respectively.

Not that I hold much on the Tigers offy as being particularly reliable in terms of view points but generally the view on there is that he is consistent and reliable. Does make the occasional mistake but that is an experience thing you get from younger players. He being key to keeping that midfield working.

Personally I think he's a bit of a throw back. He's the almost secondary flyhalf type of 12 that Tigers used to love (Howard, Gibson, Mauger). They've fallen a bit out of fashion in recent times but you're spot on with the time on the ball, he just has a bit of footwork to buy him time to move the ball. His decision making when carrying the ball into contact and ball placement need a little work but again an experience thing. The more he plays the better he'll get and he should be playing plenty more this season as long as he stays fit.

100%. He’s only just started playing top level rugby this season, whilst Atkinson has four seasons under his belt now and 67 games.

[FKAS]

I've known Woody for years. He's a top lad, and works damn hard at his game. He's still lacking consistency, and to a certain extent still finding his feet at the higher level of Prem rugby, having played a decent amount of Champ and Prem cup. But then I'd expect that with only 8 starts and 12 games in the Prem. He has one of those intangible things, which is the appearance of time on the ball. He's making better decisions, but still the odd mistake. Defence needs work. It is OK. But it's a definite work on. Most decision making and positioning. Core tackling technique is fine.

I'd have him fourth in the list of potentials as it stands. Especially with Hartley being a bit up and down.

Who knows where his ceiling is. Frankly they've all got a lot of improvement in them. Atkinson and Woody are 22 and 21 respectively.

Not that I hold much on the Tigers offy as being particularly reliable in terms of view points but generally the view on there is that he is consistent and reliable. Does make the occasional mistake but that is an experience thing you get from younger players. He being key to keeping that midfield working.

Personally I think he's a bit of a throw back. He's the almost secondary flyhalf type of 12 that Tigers used to love (Howard, Gibson, Mauger). They've fallen a bit out of fashion in recent times but you're spot on with the time on the ball, he just has a bit of footwork to buy him time to move the ball. His decision making when carrying the ball into contact and ball placement need a little work but again an experience thing. The more he plays the better he'll get and he should be playing plenty more this season as long as he stays fit.

100%. He’s only just started playing top level rugby this season, whilst Atkinson has four seasons under his belt now and 67 games.

Seb Atkinson does feel like the closest thing to a Will Greenwood replacement we've found. I do want to see if he can make that step up.

[Oakboy]

Atkinson having a belter so far...Exeter a tad poor tho. Really good handling

He is doing well surrounded by the Welsh guys.

Weird comment. He’s been excellent this season and is critical to how Gloucester play but he was equally good in a struggling team (and no Welsh guys) last season.

Woodward’s doing well next to a RWC winner … what’s the point your trying to make?

I was just being facetious regarding those around him in contrast to Dingwall, for example, who gets credit for being an integral part of a mainly English unit. Lots of posters are praising Atkinson and that's fair enough. Maybe he should have received selectorial recognition by now. It's odd that he has not in his 4th season (as pointed out above).

Woodward, earlier in his career, has JVP and an English back three. That might count for little beyond extra chat at the international meal table of course.

[Scrumhead]

If Gloucester can build upon this season, the centre pairing of Atkinson and Joseph could be very interesting. With Redshaw at 15, they’re building their own cadre of England hopefuls.