RugbyRebels

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 11:34 am

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 7:34 am

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 7:21 am

Or, if Russell and Jones go down injured, 10 - 13 would be Farrell Aki Earl. I really hope that happens.

Won't be watching. Still a supporter, still want the Lions to win, but won't be watching AF's Ireland/family wet dream.

Oh yes, Farrell/ Aki/Earl! Worth watching for the comedy horror value.

You are missing the cherry on the top, which is Kinghorn going down injured as well to leave Farrell/Aki/Earl with Mitchell on the wing.

Weird tour, made weirder by selections. The constant favouritism towards Irish players and half-Irish players who happen to share a surname with the coach is infuriating - Ryan was lucky to be on tour, let alone starting ahead of Cummings and Chessum (probably in that order, especially with Skelton to combat, although Chessum getting fucked about played at 6 in the warmups didn't help him), Porter over Genge remains a mystery, and picking Kelleher on the bench isn't much better, the fact that HJones was definitely dropped aftter the second test and probably would've been dropped for this one if it wasn't for Ringrose's honesty. Whatever the result in the end, it's definitely been a Lions that's less than the sum of its parts.

Wouldn't mind Australia winning, partly for the good of the game in the country, partly so we don't have to deal with the press wanking off about this side being "all-time greats because they achieved a whitewash for the first time in 40 years!!!" That way leads us to Owen Farrell getting called up for 2029 because he's got the experience of two winning tours.

The only thing I'd say in favour of Farrell is that I agree with his rejection of most of the France-based players, given the way things have played out. Kinghorn is without a doubt the best full-back in the British Isles and one of the best wingers but, because he came so late to the tour, he's only just made it into the starting XV for the final game, and that only because the back three have been so uninspiring as a unit.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 11:34 am

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 7:34 am

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 7:21 am

Or, if Russell and Jones go down injured, 10 - 13 would be Farrell Aki Earl. I really hope that happens.

Won't be watching. Still a supporter, still want the Lions to win, but won't be watching AF's Ireland/family wet dream.

Oh yes, Farrell/ Aki/Earl! Worth watching for the comedy horror value.

You are missing the cherry on the top, which is Kinghorn going down injured as well to leave Farrell/Aki/Earl with Mitchell on the wing.

Weird tour, made weirder by selections. The constant favouritism towards Irish players and half-Irish players who happen to share a surname with the coach is infuriating - Ryan was lucky to be on tour, let alone starting ahead of Cummings and Chessum (probably in that order, especially with Skelton to combat, although Chessum getting fucked about played at 6 in the warmups didn't help him), Porter over Genge remains a mystery, and picking Kelleher on the bench isn't much better, the fact that HJones was definitely dropped aftter the second test and probably would've been dropped for this one if it wasn't for Ringrose's honesty. Whatever the result in the end, it's definitely been a Lions that's less than the sum of its parts.

Wouldn't mind Australia winning, partly for the good of the game in the country, partly so we don't have to deal with the press wanking off about this side being "all-time greats because they achieved a whitewash for the first time in 40 years!!!" That way leads us to Owen Farrell getting called up for 2029 because he's got the experience of two winning tours.

The only thing I'd say in favour of Farrell is that I agree with his rejection of most of the France-based players, given the way things have played out. Kinghorn is without a doubt the best full-back in the British Isles and one of the best wingers but, because he came so late to the tour, he's only just made it into the starting XV for the final game, and that only because the back three have been so uninspiring as a unit.

Puja

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 7:47 am Lazarus like rebirth of Owen Farrells career enabled by his dad.

It’s a tad stinky. And looks like Jones was a mad tactical sub last week- sadly, as we won, glossed over. As will a lot of the stuff on this tour which has been a bit strange; I guess it’s a strange tour in the first place when you think about it.

Spiffy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 2:17 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 7:47 am Lazarus like rebirth of Owen Farrells career enabled by his dad.

It’s a tad stinky. And looks like Jones was a mad tactical sub last week- sadly, as we won, glossed over. As will a lot of the stuff on this tour which has been a bit strange; I guess it’s a strange tour in the first place when you think about it.

Totally agree. I have followed the Lions enthusiastically since the 1959 tour but lost interest in this one the moment Faz was called up. The team for the final test is a joke, and the presence of Faz on the bench makes it a sick joke. I'd be quite happy to see Oz win this one. I'm an ardent Ireland supporter but I'll never be able to see Andy Farrell in the same light after this sad debacle. I wish he'd just move on (especially since coaches like O'Gara and Felix Jones have shown their credentials.)

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 2:21 pm This is the first Lions tour I’ve not been gripped by, and many mates are the same. Think it’s a combo of expecting to win, plus the lack of exciting players bar Russell in the Lions squad. Lots of very good, even excellent, players but no one to be excited about or to emerge. And a triumph of experience over hope.

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 2:26 pm

Spiffy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 2:17 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 7:47 am Lazarus like rebirth of Owen Farrells career enabled by his dad.

It’s a tad stinky. And looks like Jones was a mad tactical sub last week- sadly, as we won, glossed over. As will a lot of the stuff on this tour which has been a bit strange; I guess it’s a strange tour in the first place when you think about it.

Totally agree. I have followed the Lions enthusiastically since the 1959 tour but lost interest in this one the moment Faz was called up. The team for the final test is a joke, and the presence of Faz on the bench makes it a sick joke. I'd be quite happy to see Oz win this one. I'm an ardent Ireland supporter but I'll never be able to see Andy Farrell in the same light after this sad debacle. I wish he'd just move on (especially since coaches like O'Gara and Felix Jones have shown their credentials.)

As fcuked off as I am with Andy Farrell over his selections, one thing in his defence is the camaraderie he has engineered among the players. Obviously I say this from the outside looking in, but it feels like a tight squad who are happy to back each other to the hilt.

However, that is the only thing I'm taking from this tour. For the rest I completely agree with these two posts, and others above.

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 3:15 pm

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 2:26 pm

Spiffy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 2:17 pm
Totally agree. I have followed the Lions enthusiastically since the 1959 tour but lost interest in this one the moment Faz was called up. The team for the final test is a joke, and the presence of Faz on the bench makes it a sick joke. I'd be quite happy to see Oz win this one. I'm an ardent Ireland supporter but I'll never be able to see Andy Farrell in the same light after this sad debacle. I wish he'd just move on (especially since coaches like O'Gara and Felix Jones have shown their credentials.)

As fcuked off as I am with Andy Farrell over his selections, one thing in his defence is the camaraderie he has engineered among the players. Obviously I say this from the outside looking in, but it feels like a tight squad who are happy to back each other to the hilt.

However, that is the only thing I'm taking from this tour. For the rest I completely agree with these two posts, and others above.

I've been thinking along those lines too. Farrell has done things for this series- such as selecting players based on familiarity/ reputation rather than form , bringing in players as the equivalent of the "geography six" to protect the test players and consigning players who you'd think have a shot at the test squad to the role of "dirt trackers" presumably as the test side was already largely pencilled in-which some of his predecessors were castigated for, and not just from outside the squad either. ( i read in the Times that when Gatland's geography six were on the bench some players refused to come off to deny these " interlopers" an appearance). None of this seems to have resulted in much dissent from any source.

Maybe it's purely down to winning. If you go through a Lions tour undefeated, will anyone care how it was achieved?

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 2:59 pm I'd be surprised if Ireland and England don't feel some knock on effects of this tour in their performances and possibly results over the next year. Their senior players have all been flogged.

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 3:15 pm

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 2:26 pm

Spiffy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 2:17 pm
Totally agree. I have followed the Lions enthusiastically since the 1959 tour but lost interest in this one the moment Faz was called up. The team for the final test is a joke, and the presence of Faz on the bench makes it a sick joke. I'd be quite happy to see Oz win this one. I'm an ardent Ireland supporter but I'll never be able to see Andy Farrell in the same light after this sad debacle. I wish he'd just move on (especially since coaches like O'Gara and Felix Jones have shown their credentials.)

As fcuked off as I am with Andy Farrell over his selections, one thing in his defence is the camaraderie he has engineered among the players. Obviously I say this from the outside looking in, but it feels like a tight squad who are happy to back each other to the hilt.

However, that is the only thing I'm taking from this tour. For the rest I completely agree with these two posts, and others above.

I've been thinking along those lines too. Farrell has done things for this series- such as selecting players based on familiarity/ reputation rather than form , bringing in players as the equivalent of the "geography six" to protect the test players and consigning players who you'd think have a shot at the test squad to the role of "dirt trackers" presumably as the test side was already largely pencilled in-which some of his predecessors were castigated for, and not just from outside the squad either. ( i read in the Times that when Gatland's geography six were on the bench some players refused to come off to deny these " interlopers" an appearance). None of this seems to have resulted in much dissent from any source.

Maybe it's purely down to winning. If you go through a Lions tour undefeated, will anyone care how it was achieved?

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 6:07 pm

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 3:15 pm

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 2:26 pm

As fcuked off as I am with Andy Farrell over his selections, one thing in his defence is the camaraderie he has engineered among the players. Obviously I say this from the outside looking in, but it feels like a tight squad who are happy to back each other to the hilt.

However, that is the only thing I'm taking from this tour. For the rest I completely agree with these two posts, and others above.

I've been thinking along those lines too. Farrell has done things for this series- such as selecting players based on familiarity/ reputation rather than form , bringing in players as the equivalent of the "geography six" to protect the test players and consigning players who you'd think have a shot at the test squad to the role of "dirt trackers" presumably as the test side was already largely pencilled in-which some of his predecessors were castigated for, and not just from outside the squad either. ( i read in the Times that when Gatland's geography six were on the bench some players refused to come off to deny these " interlopers" an appearance). None of this seems to have resulted in much dissent from any source.

Maybe it's purely down to winning. If you go through a Lions tour undefeated, will anyone care how it was achieved?

Team discipline seems better this time around. Both Gatland and Henry had some issues with rogue newspaper articles and plenty of whinging.

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 2:26 pm

Spiffy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 2:17 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 7:47 am Lazarus like rebirth of Owen Farrells career enabled by his dad.

It’s a tad stinky. And looks like Jones was a mad tactical sub last week- sadly, as we won, glossed over. As will a lot of the stuff on this tour which has been a bit strange; I guess it’s a strange tour in the first place when you think about it.

Totally agree. I have followed the Lions enthusiastically since the 1959 tour but lost interest in this one the moment Faz was called up. The team for the final test is a joke, and the presence of Faz on the bench makes it a sick joke. I'd be quite happy to see Oz win this one. I'm an ardent Ireland supporter but I'll never be able to see Andy Farrell in the same light after this sad debacle. I wish he'd just move on (especially since coaches like O'Gara and Felix Jones have shown their credentials.)

As fcuked off as I am with Andy Farrell over his selections, one thing in his defence is the camaraderie he has engineered among the players. Obviously I say this from the outside looking in, but it feels like a tight squad who are happy to back each other to the hilt.

However, that is the only thing I'm taking from this tour. For the rest I completely agree with these two posts, and others above.

Spiffy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 8:25 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 6:07 pm

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 3:15 pm

I've been thinking along those lines too. Farrell has done things for this series- such as selecting players based on familiarity/ reputation rather than form , bringing in players as the equivalent of the "geography six" to protect the test players and consigning players who you'd think have a shot at the test squad to the role of "dirt trackers" presumably as the test side was already largely pencilled in-which some of his predecessors were castigated for, and not just from outside the squad either. ( i read in the Times that when Gatland's geography six were on the bench some players refused to come off to deny these " interlopers" an appearance). None of this seems to have resulted in much dissent from any source.

Maybe it's purely down to winning. If you go through a Lions tour undefeated, will anyone care how it was achieved?

Team discipline seems better this time around. Both Gatland and Henry had some issues with rogue newspaper articles and plenty of whinging.

Well I've always found both Gatland and Henry to be a complete pain in the arrse and not remotely likeable men. I think Farrell is well ahead of both on this score. He comes across as a decent bloke who has been there and done that as a Rugby League phenom and then (too late in his career) as a limited Rugby Union player. I think he understands the ethos of team building and works hard at it. That said, I believe that some of his decisions as coach of this Lions tour have been poor. The worst was to call up his son Owen to the squad when that was not remotely justified by performance. The writing was on the wall when Daley was not replaced by a like-for-like in a call that reeks of nepotism.
Lions teammates may be primed to rave about his leadership etc... But deep down they must believe that this was a wrong decision that has totally scuppered the tour for Fin Smith and Marcus Smith, two talented young players who must be feeling particularly raw, and won't forget it.
Despite the ravings of the Owen-centric media (many his old mates), he has really delivered nothing on field to confirm his call up as a good decision. Yet now Owen is getting a free pass into a third test 23 that will be remembered with great kudos in history if they clinch the series 3-0 against a poor Oz. Do the coaching even team bother to analyse the data from the last game? Many may be happy enough to see an aging carthorse plodding about the midfield, I am not one of them.
To put it plainly - this FUUKKKING pisses me off.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 01, 2025 1:34 am This is weird. There's about 3 selections anyone has any quibbles about and it's all somehow a disaster that you can't even be bothered watching. There's never been a Lions team picked purely on form - at least not in my lifetime. All the selections seem to me to be entirely explicable, even if they aren't the ones I'd have made.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 01, 2025 1:34 am This is weird. There's about 3 selections anyone has any quibbles about and it's all somehow a disaster that you can't even be bothered watching. There's never been a Lions team picked purely on form - at least not in my lifetime. All the selections seem to me to be entirely explicable, even if they aren't the ones I'd have made.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 01, 2025 1:34 am This is weird. There's about 3 selections anyone has any quibbles about and it's all somehow a disaster that you can't even be bothered watching. There's never been a Lions team picked purely on form - at least not in my lifetime. All the selections seem to me to be entirely explicable, even if they aren't the ones I'd have made.

Cameo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 01, 2025 2:40 am

Spiffy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 8:25 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Thu Jul 31, 2025 6:07 pm
Team discipline seems better this time around. Both Gatland and Henry had some issues with rogue newspaper articles and plenty of whinging.

Well I've always found both Gatland and Henry to be a complete pain in the arrse and not remotely likeable men. I think Farrell is well ahead of both on this score. He comes across as a decent bloke who has been there and done that as a Rugby League phenom and then (too late in his career) as a limited Rugby Union player. I think he understands the ethos of team building and works hard at it. That said, I believe that some of his decisions as coach of this Lions tour have been poor. The worst was to call up his son Owen to the squad when that was not remotely justified by performance. The writing was on the wall when Daley was not replaced by a like-for-like in a call that reeks of nepotism.
Lions teammates may be primed to rave about his leadership etc... But deep down they must believe that this was a wrong decision that has totally scuppered the tour for Fin Smith and Marcus Smith, two talented young players who must be feeling particularly raw, and won't forget it.
Despite the ravings of the Owen-centric media (many his old mates), he has really delivered nothing on field to confirm his call up as a good decision. Yet now Owen is getting a free pass into a third test 23 that will be remembered with great kudos in history if they clinch the series 3-0 against a poor Oz. Do the coaching even team bother to analyse the data from the last game? Many may be happy enough to see an aging carthorse plodding about the midfield, I am not one of them.
To put it plainly - this FUUKKKING pisses me off.

Is that not the main function of the Lions. It's not a Lions tour if there is not:

a) disgruntlement from regular fans about selection

b) a ridiculous amount of hype from the media (including this idea that a Lions tour is such a monumental challenge that a win means that all selections are vindicated).

My feeling is that more than ever he seems to have gone in with a clear idea of his first choice 23 and only deviated from that based on injury. However, most of the selections (outside Farrel Jnr) have some logic to them.

I quite like Farrell Snr, and I can even see that this approach might be the most reliable way of beating Australia, but it does make half the tour seem a bit pointless. It seems coaches would prefer to have a test squad that will have one or two warmups, with a separate banter squad going around playing fun invitational games and providing injury cover as needed.

Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 01, 2025 10:04 am

Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 01, 2025 1:34 am This is weird. There's about 3 selections anyone has any quibbles about and it's all somehow a disaster that you can't even be bothered watching. There's never been a Lions team picked purely on form - at least not in my lifetime. All the selections seem to me to be entirely explicable, even if they aren't the ones I'd have made.

Kind of fair, but its clearly the OF pick that is grinding gears. It would also help if various backroom staff didn't keep saying we are picking on form or words to that effect. But coaches would always back experience over form in this type of series, especially if its a close call. In fairness they have dumped out of form Lowe for showed some form Kinghorn.

As before, I'm not as engaged as usual in this tour, but its not selection; I was surprised when Beirne and Curry got picked, as they both looked shot in warm up games, but that was a triumph, so kudos. I think its because there was an expectation of winning before we set off or summat.

The format point is a good one- if you are going to pick 30+ players, make it a proper tour with proper testing opposition; OR cut it to just 3 tests, but suspect that would kill the whole thing.