RugbyRebels

padprop wrote:NHS doctor tells Health Secretary he won't get jabbed


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/59929638

Alot to unpack here.

The doctor has gone onto say that he is pro-vaccine and pro-choice and is simply against mandates. It's one thing to hold these opinions in private, but is tremendously short-sighted to not think that what you say in front on a camera with the health secretary will become Anti-Vaxx fuel. Just look at the Youtube comments for proof.

He comes across as very arrogant... I mean you have to be pretty arrogant to speak down to the Health Secretary like that.

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:

padprop wrote:NHS doctor tells Health Secretary he won't get jabbed


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/59929638

Alot to unpack here.

The doctor has gone onto say that he is pro-vaccine and pro-choice and is simply against mandates. It's one thing to hold these opinions in private, but is tremendously short-sighted to not think that what you say in front on a camera with the health secretary will become Anti-Vaxx fuel. Just look at the Youtube comments for proof.

I just don't get the single-hair-width division that these people draw. Surely if you're pro-vaccine, then you get the vaccine. Sure fine, be in favour of personal freedom, against forcing people, etc, etc, whatever, but if you think the vaccine's good, then you should a) be getting it yourself and b) be encouraging everyone else to get it however you can. If you're not doing both those things, then by definition, you're not pro-vaccine and thus are a fucking idiot who thinks they're cleverer than pretty much the entire medical field.

Puja

I’m pro vaccine but anti boosters in general. Especially considering the huge discrepancy in vaccination rates the world over. I believe that we should be pushing for healthier living before vaccine mandates. Partly in the form of taxes against junk food producers, removing vat from all “healthy options”, and pushing vitamin d supplementation as an actual thing.

I’m not publicly criticizing the vaccine, I believe it works as they say it does, and I’ve got the booster. Partly because I wanted to go to the office and travel abroad later this year where there may be vaccine mandates.

So… I can see how you can be pro vaccine but not get the booster. I don’t see how you can work in front like healthcare without it, though… and I don’t get why you could think it’s a good idea to criticize it in this way. It’s dangerous. You guys are mainly smart people, this is not a public forum, so I’m more comfortable sharing more intricate views. But I would never think of sharing them in a public forum because of how many stupid people there are.

TL;DR: I would probably not have had the booster if I felt I had a choice. Not because I don’t see it as safe but because I don’t see it as being the best idea when taking a global view.

I'm very happy that this is in the planning here in NL under the latest coalition agreement - it is indeed a very sensible policy. However, I don't see what that has to do with boosters, certainly the two are not mutually exclusive.

Anti-vaxxers need education about what mRNA does, although I'm guessing they're incapabale of comprehending.

I understand your arguments about more jabs for other countries, but they'll probably have got natural immunity by now. Omikron changes the logic somewhat, because it is a bit of a reset button on the current vaccination progress.

I completely understand being pro-vaccine and anti-booster, taking a global perspective.
It's way more important to get 1st doses into as much of the world as possible, than 3rd or 4th doses into the privileged few in the West.

It's why I wasn't in a rush to get my booster the moment I became eligible.

But it's not a zero-sum game; those booster doses have already been hogged by our countries, and if we don't use them, they go in the bin; not to ANOther country struggling to reach 10% vaccination.

Which is why I accepted my booster when I was actually invited (as opposed to "you're invited if you've heard this message and can arrange for it yourself").


What I don't understand, but am seeing, is people who are anti-booster because they were told 2 doses (or 2 doses + infection) was about as good a protection as could be mustered. People who mis-understood what they were told at the time, and can't seem to get their heads around the facts on the ground changing, and the advice changing with it.
There are still plenty who think that "immunity" is either complete, or non-existent; as if it's a globe of invulnerability spell, rather than a vaccine designed to prime the immune system.
What I understand even less are those who say "but I've got an immune system, and it's served my species well for 200,000 years" (or 4,300 years for those of a certain bent) as if they're never heard of disease before.

Which Tyler wrote: What I understand even less are those who say "but I've got an immune system, and it's served my species well for 200,000 years" (or 4,300 years for those of a certain bent) as if they're never heard of disease before.

It probably feels like ancient history or 'foreign stuff' to some trapped in the new-world comfort bubble..polio,tb -last century, cholera/dysentry..plague before that - it's wasn't the immune system that put a lid on these.

This may be a shock to those opting 'nay'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59963700
£300/week may sway some's decisions - you can see the business perspective, but the cry of 'discrimination' will rebound.
Thin end of the edge for sure.

On Djokovic, there’s no denying Australia handled that abysmally. But he should never have been allowed in in the first place. And as soon as it became apparent he lied about his tests, he should have been deported and banned from the country.

I mean, the guy is a grade a cwnt.

cashead wrote:

Zhivago wrote:Australian gov looking a bit tyrannical if they contrive another reason to invalidate Djokovic's visa.

Hard disagree. Fuck Djokovic, the fucking anti-vaxx dipshit COVIDiot cunt. He can get fucked and stay fucked. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

If ONLY there were something No-Vaxx Dickfuck could have done to begin with, instead of deciding "no vaccinations, even in the middle of a literal once in a 100 fucking years cunting goddamned fucking global pan-fucking-demic" is the hill to die on.

He's free to refuse to get vaccinated like the rest of the no-vaxx shoe-size IQ crowd, while the rest of us who chose to get the jabs, are also free to tell him to fuck right off the nearest cliff.

These are the consequences of his actions, and no amount of indignation is going to change that. He can whine and stamp his feet throwing a tanty because he didn't get his way all he wants, like the fucking boy that he is, it's high fucking time he faces them for change.

I'm sorry you find it's really unreasonable and, uh, "tyrannical," apparently, that us plebs down here in Australasia have the temerity and the nerve to want to protect ourselves instead of platforming a COVID-denying shitfuck in a way that would enable anti-vaxx dipshits during a global pandemic, and risk potentially exposing ourselves to COVID more than we already have, during a global pandemic, just so that some already rich cunt can line his pockets a little more playing some bullshit sackass sport, during a global pandemic... but considering the alternative, I think I can live with it.

It should be noted that I made that statement before it came out that he had lied on his travel declaration.

https://www.euronews.com/2022/01/19/cze ... ealth-pass

A well-known Czech folk singer has died after deliberately contracting COVID-19 in order to obtain a health pass without getting vaccinated.

Hana Horka -- from the band Asonance -- passed away on Sunday at the age of 57, her family confirmed.

Her son Jan Rek told Czech media that his mother had refused to get the COVID vaccine and had exposed herself to infection to obtain a health pass.

Czech citizens need to be fully vaccinated or have recently recovered from the virus to enter bars, restaurants, and most cultural venues.

...
ARTICLE CONTINUES​

The Darwin Awards are going to have a LOT of candidates

Which Tyler wrote:https://www.euronews.com/2022/01/19/cze ... ealth-pass

A well-known Czech folk singer has died after deliberately contracting COVID-19 in order to obtain a health pass without getting vaccinated.

Hana Horka -- from the band Asonance -- passed away on Sunday at the age of 57, her family confirmed.

Her son Jan Rek told Czech media that his mother had refused to get the COVID vaccine and had exposed herself to infection to obtain a health pass.

Czech citizens need to be fully vaccinated or have recently recovered from the virus to enter bars, restaurants, and most cultural venues.

...
ARTICLE CONTINUES​

The Darwin Awards are going to have a LOT of candidates

Another one killed by the 'it's just like a bad flu, right?' meme.

This could be huge!
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/wo ... 022-02-03/

Thought HK was part of China now..?

"Researchers at the University of Hong Kong estimate that a third of the population could be in isolation by mid-March and the territory’s “fifth wave” outbreak could peak at more than 180,000 cases per day." (ft)

Yet the 'Worldo-' Covid data still has China reporting 1-200 cases/day, no deaths. (somewhere between Martinique & NZ)..(*)
The ZeroCovid policy has been torpedoed there by low vaccination rates and Omicron - maybe a portent of troubles ahead elsewhere in China,if it spreads.

[(*) so if the China numbers are continually missing, the 'Global' figures will be c@ck&bull too, surely. ? ]

cashead wrote:

Galfon wrote:Thought HK was part of China now..?

Kind of, sort of but not really but kind of.
... - not that China appears to give a shit.

that explains it - fair play 'Worldo-', HK gets it's own place on the list, actually some places above big daddy...

I took a girlfriend that went to St. Cuthberts to a Marist rugby league social once. She got to see what happens to men when they drink 8 jugs of Lion red and was terrified of the mums telling her she needs to eat more taro. She couldn’t compute the fact Samoan was basically an official clubhouse language. I never saw her again after that but the club mums ( who let’s face it, run the show) said I need a good island girl. Fucking good formative times.

morepork wrote:I took a girlfriend that went to St. Cuthberts to a Marist rugby league social once. She got to see what happens to men when they drink 8 jugs of Lion red and was terrified of the mums telling her she needs to eat more taro. She couldn’t compute the fact Samoan was basically an official clubhouse language. I never saw her again after that but the club mums ( who let’s face it, run the show) said I need a good island girl. Fucking good formative times.

What ?
Expand the story.

Actually, don't.

646 deaths reported yesterday in uk, 7 day avge. highest for over a year and more than double the winter peak ...the 'Spring' Omicron had already caused chaos with A&E waiting times in recent weeks.
Another glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel though - only 1 in 17 has it now, down from 1 in 15 last week.
(Around 70% of people in Eng. have had it now apparently.)
The Autumn booster plan for under 75's/non-vulnerables is starting to look critical already - just hope we by-pass a 'Summer' variant.
In the meantime, back to the office y'loafers and slackers !

This chap was one of my go to sources of info during the pandemic, and not just because he seemed to be one of the few voices that actually prioritised children:

https://alasdairmunro.substack.com/p/le ... 1fhhmw&s=r

The WHO report on excess deaths during* the pandemic has been released. Quite unbelievably, the Germans did worse than the U.K. despite being held up as the model to follow in 2020 for large European countries. Spain and, unsurprisingly given they caught the brunt of the first wave, Italy also fare worse. Kudos to France who fare best of the large European countries.

https://www.who.int/data/stories/global ... ember-2021

*too early for China, surely, as they still seem to be in the midst of the crisis despite supposedly being the example we should’ve followed…. On which note, I was shocked to learn that NZ still have closed borders.

Mellsblue wrote:The WHO report on excess deaths during* the pandemic has been realised. Quite unbelievably, the Germans did worse than the U.K. despite being held up as the model to follow in 2020 for large European countries. Spain and, unsurprisingly given they caught the brunt of the first wave, Italy also fare worse. Kudos to France who fare best of the large European countries.

https://www.who.int/data/stories/global ... ember-2021

*too early for China, surely, as they still seem to be in the midst of the crisis despite supposedly being the example we should’ve followed…. On which note, I was shocked to learn that NZ still have closed borders.

Just took a look, and Hungary would be fourth on that list. Yay. Pretty poor numbers, but predictable considering the state of the healthcare system and government.

Stom wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:The WHO report on excess deaths during* the pandemic has been realised. Quite unbelievably, the Germans did worse than the U.K. despite being held up as the model to follow in 2020 for large European countries. Spain and, unsurprisingly given they caught the brunt of the first wave, Italy also fare worse. Kudos to France who fare best of the large European countries.

https://www.who.int/data/stories/global ... ember-2021

*too early for China, surely, as they still seem to be in the midst of the crisis despite supposedly being the example we should’ve followed…. On which note, I was shocked to learn that NZ still have closed borders.

Just took a look, and Hungary would be fourth on that list. Yay. Pretty poor numbers, but predictable considering the state of the healthcare system and government.

This is the full list. No idea why the WHO would hide it away in the data download, but anyway:

Country Excess deaths /100,000
1 Peru 437
2 Bulgaria 415
3 Bolivia (Plurinational State of) 375
4 North Macedonia 369
5 Russian Federation 367
6 Armenia 332
7 Lithuania 319
8 Serbia 319
9 Montenegro 311
10 Georgia 307
11 Azerbaijan 280
12 Romania 279
13 Belarus 259
14 San Marino 251
15 Andorra 242
16 Mexico 242
17 Bosnia and Herzegovina 240
18 Ecuador 228
19 Ukraine 227
20 Republic of Moldova 225
21 Slovakia 223
22 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 222
23 Albania 221
24 Croatia 210
25 Poland 208
26 Latvia 204
27 Kazakhstan 202
28 South Africa 200
29 Hungary 189
30 Indonesia 187
31 Guyana 178
32 Czechia 173
33 India 171
34 Eswatini 164
35 Colombia 161
36 Brazil 160
37 Botswana 156
38 Turkey 156
39 Namibia 151
40 United States of America 140
41 Paraguay 138
42 Guatemala 137
43 Iran (Islamic Republic of) 137
44 Lebanon 136
45 Slovenia 134
46 Italy 133
47 El Salvador 131
48 Bahamas 127
49 Estonia 127
50 Egypt 122
51 Germany 116
52 Honduras 113
53 Oman 111
54 Spain 111
55 Somalia 110
56 The United Kingdom 109
57 Chile 101
58 Saint Lucia 101
59 Portugal 100
60 Tunisia 100
61 Argentina 99
62 Costa Rica 94
63 Kyrgyzstan 94
64 Greece 93
65 Lesotho 93
66 Nicaragua 91
67 Djibouti 89
68 Panama 88
69 Belize 87
70 Netherlands 85
71 Philippines 84
72 Cabo Verde 83
73 Iraq 82
74 Monaco 81
75 Cuba 80
76 Algeria 79
77 Belgium 77
78 Mauritania 74
79 Trinidad and Tobago 72
80 Guinea-Bissau 71
81 Niger 70
82 Mozambique 67
83 Tajikistan 67
84 Uzbekistan 67
85 Austria 66
86 Cameroon 66
87 Mali 66
88 Democratic Republic of the Congo 65
89 Central African Republic 64
90 France 63
91 Zambia 63
92 Suriname 62
93 Zimbabwe 62
94 Jamaica 61
95 Equatorial Guinea 60
96 Gambia 59
97 Chad 58
98 Jordan 58
99 Afghanistan 57
100 Libya 57
101 Sweden 56
102 Yemen 56
103 Nepal 55
104 Dominican Republic 54
105 Malta 54
106 Burkina Faso 52
107 Pakistan 52
108 Kuwait 49
109 Senegal 49
110 Sierra Leone 49
111 Benin 48
112 Côte d'Ivoire 48
113 Guinea 47
114 Morocco 47
115 Switzerland 47
116 Madagascar 46
117 Nigeria 45
118 Uruguay 45
119 Ethiopia 44
120 Malawi 44
121 Bangladesh 43
122 Sao Tome and Principe 43
123 Sudan 43
124 Cyprus 42
125 Haiti 42
126 Comoros 41
127 Congo 41
128 South Sudan 41
129 Myanmar 40
130 Burundi 39
131 Liberia 39
132 Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of) 39
133 Cambodia 37
134 Mauritius 37
135 Gabon 36
136 Israel 35
137 Angola 34
138 Eritrea 34
139 Ghana 33
140 United Republic of Tanzania 33
141 Denmark 32
142 Canada 29
143 Ireland 29
144 Finland 26
145 Qatar 26
146 Timor-Leste 26
147 Saudi Arabia 25
148 Maldives 23
149 Uganda 22
150 Rwanda 21
151 Syrian Arab Republic 20
152 Bahrain 19
153 Singapore 13
154 Lao People's Democratic Republic 12
155 Malaysia 12
156 United Arab Emirates 12
157 Kenya 11
158 Thailand 11
159 Dominica 10
160 Luxembourg 6
161 Republic of Korea (South Korea) 6
162 Turkmenistan 5
163 Papua New Guinea 4
164 Seychelles 4
165 Mongolia 0
166 Norway -1
167 China -2
168 Iceland -2
169 Viet Nam -3
170 Solomon Islands -4
171 Fiji -6
172 Nauru -7
173 Japan -8
174 Vanuatu -12
175 Brunei Darussalam -13
176 Democratic People's Republic of Korea -14
177 Antigua and Barbuda -15
178 Tonga -17
179 Kiribati -19
180 Sri Lanka -21
181 Samoa -22
182 Bhutan -26
183 Australia -28
184 New Zealand -28
185 Togo -42
186 Tuvalu -46
187 Micronesia (Federated States of) -48
188 Barbados -62
189 Marshall Islands -67
190 Cook Islands -102
191 Palau -111
192 Grenada -118
193 Niue -154
194 Saint Kitts and Nevis -194

So, not surprisingly, South Korea, Australia, NZ, China and Japan come out well (as well as a collection of tiny island states). Germany vs France is a surprise based on earlier numbers, but Sweden's dreadful performance compared with its fellow nordic states is not.

All mainland European countries (other than Luxembourg) came out moderately to very badly, so the lesson for next time surely is, what did those successful, large countries (eg South Korea) do so well, and how can we can model our pandemic response on theirs? It's fairly straightforward, but there's zero indication that the UK government has learnt any lessons from this.

Yes. Well done China. You’re still in long term lockdowns, whilst the rest of the developed world is pretty much back to normal life, and you’re starving you’re citizens but great job.

One of many articles on the subject:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in ... -shortage/

Mellsblue wrote:Yes. Well done China. You’re still in long term lockdowns, whilst the rest of the developed world is pretty much back to normal life, and you’re starving you’re citizens but great job.

One of many articles on the subject:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in ... -shortage/

No need to follow the example of China. How about South Korea?

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Yes. Well done China. You’re still in long term lockdowns, whilst the rest of the developed world is pretty much back to normal life, and you’re starving you’re citizens but great job.

One of many articles on the subject:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in ... -shortage/

No need to follow the example of China. How about South Korea?

A good idea*, and one all of Europe should probably follow albeit with allowances for the European way of life, but you’re the one who has repeatedly praised China, which was the point I was making. In fact, you repeatedly stated we should follow China’s example back in 2020 when they were doing as they do now two years later, ie incredibly harsh lockdowns with little thought for basic human rights.

*the irony being that’s the U.K’s medium term scientific response was closer to S. Korea than any other nation in the West.

Mellsblue wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Yes. Well done China. You’re still in long term lockdowns, whilst the rest of the developed world is pretty much back to normal life, and you’re starving you’re citizens but great job.

One of many articles on the subject:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in ... -shortage/

No need to follow the example of China. How about South Korea?

A good idea*, and one all of Europe should probably follow albeit with allowances for the European way of life, but you’re the one who has repeatedly praised China, which was the point I was making. In fact, you repeatedly stated we should follow China’s example back in 2020 when they were doing as they do now two years later, ie incredibly harsh lockdowns with little thought for basic human rights.

*the irony being that’s the U.K’s medium term scientific response was closer to S. Korea than any other nation in the West.

Your memory is letting you down there - it was South Korea I said we should follow most closely (possibly Taiwan also). It was obviously valuable to look at China's approach and experience (being at the epicentre of the pandemic) but it's far less similar to the UK than is South Korea, so less useful as a guide.

Mellsblue wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:
The Chinese are beating this thing. We need to employ their methods right now. If this was a war we'd do it.

Not sure I want to live in a totalitarian, communist state. Their lockdown was two months of people going nowhere. Not sure that’s possible in the UK, either in the short term or the long term. There are already models showing that the financial fallout of tanking the economy will kill more lives than the lockdown will save. An impossible situation.
Also, if the King’s model is correct they aren’t beating this thing, they’re just through the first wave.

Whoops.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: Technically, does virulent mean 1) harmful to those infected or 2) easily transmissible, or both?

Yes, agreed that SARs was less effective in terms of spreading itself, which helped our (ie humanity's) efforts to contain it.

However, had planned nations acted as South Korea, or China or Singapore did, the need for a vaccine would be drastically less.

Whoopsy.