RugbyRebels

Sure, at the start of this I argued that we should use Chinese methods because they were a hell of a lot more effective at preserving life than what we were doing (which was very little).

When South Korea's approach became apparent I made it clear that it was the model to follow, clearly much more so than China's.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:This is a guide to dealing with Covid-19, South Korean-style:

https://www.csis.org/analysis/timeline- ... e-covid-19

Big investment in testing.
Special immigration procedures for arrivals from risk areas (initially Wuhan, now much of the rest of the World).
Strict quarantining of those infected.
School closure.
The economy has NOT shut down, because effective action was taken. Much less expensive than letting the virus get a hold.

This is how a nation of 51 million, next door but one to China only has 152 Covid-19 death as of today.
Western governments should pay close attention.
It's too late to get it right but we can improve the trajectory of this thing massively.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Time and a plethora of inquiries will be required to find out who did what, when, how and why.
Just looking at numbers on a graph and deciding who acted correctly without context or letting the whole thing play out isn’t the best way of dealing with this in either the short or long term.

Yes, inquiries are needed, but that's for the future.

When I look at that graph I think "if we want to save lives we need to evaluate what South Korea is doing ASAP, and where appropriate, implement it", not "we can't possibly draw any conclusions from this right now, let's hold an inquiry in a couple of years".

Mellsblue wrote:As an example, I wonder if everyone who is praising the way China dealt with the crisis would accept the response of martial law, executions of dissenters and campaigns of disinformation from de Pfeffel’s govt. I somehow doubt it.

That's a ridiculous straw man.

1) South Korea (a democracy) is the most obvious stand out in that graph and is much more comparable to the UK than China is, so is clearly the first country to look at for best practice in Covid 19 response.

2) Why would adopting some of China's methods imply in any way that other, repressive methods are acceptable?

You said my memory let me down when I stated:
‘In fact, you repeatedly stated we should follow China’s example back in 2020 when they were doing as they do now two years later, ie incredibly harsh lockdowns with little thought for basic human rights.’
and my memory clearly didn’t let me down, as you repeatedly stated we should follow China’s example in your posts I’ve quoted.

I missed it initially, but its pretty ironic that you’re now saying countries’ outcomes and actions shouldn’t be compared without context:
‘It was obviously valuable to look at China's approach and experience (being at the epicentre of the pandemic) but it's far less similar to the UK than is South Korea, so less useful as a guide’
which is something you argued against repeatedly with numerous posters at the time. ‘Far less similar’ is also an interesting/poor way of framing the differences between a Communist dictatorship that is widely believed to be carrying out genocide and one of the most liberal countries in the world.

I’ll leave it there. Many people got stuff wrong during the pandemic, even ones with professor in front of their name.

Mellsblue wrote:You said my memory let me down when I stated:
‘In fact, you repeatedly stated we should follow China’s example back in 2020 when they were doing as they do now two years later, ie incredibly harsh lockdowns with little thought for basic human rights.’
and my memory clearly didn’t let me down, as you repeatedly stated we should follow China’s example in your posts I’ve quoted.

I missed it initially, but its pretty ironic that you’re now saying countries’ outcomes and actions shouldn’t be compared without context:
‘It was obviously valuable to look at China's approach and experience (being at the epicentre of the pandemic) but it's far less similar to the UK than is South Korea, so less useful as a guide’
which is something you argued against repeatedly with numerous posters at the time. ‘Far less similar’ is also an interesting/poor way of framing the differences between a Communist dictatorship that is widely believed to be carrying out genocide and one of the most liberal countries in the world.

I’ll leave it there. Many people got stuff wrong during the pandemic, even ones with professor in front of their name.

I'd rather not waste time on this.

I don't think China has adopted the use of any of the available mRNA vaccines with demonstrable clinical efficacy, so they are likely using some pretty average/not fully trialed products.

The long tail of covid and lockdowns continues:

https://alasdairmunro.substack.com/p/wh ... ?sd=fs&s=r

Oh shit.

Sister is in hospital with covid. She's clinically extremely vulnerable, immunocompromised, and operates on about 40% lung capacity at the best of times.

Which Tyler wrote:Oh shit.

Sister is in hospital with covid. She's clinically extremely vulnerable, immunocompromised, and operates on about 40% lung capacity at the best of times.

I'm so sorry to hear that. There's a lot more in the way of medicines and therapies that they can use on it now than there was at the start (and not just horse dewormer!). Hope she recovers quickly and well.

Not that there's a lot that I can do, but if there is anything, just name it.

Puja

Which Tyler wrote:Oh shit.

Sister is in hospital with covid. She's clinically extremely vulnerable, immunocompromised, and operates on about 40% lung capacity at the best of times.

Sorry to hear that. We have much better therapies these days, so hope all goes well.

A decade of improving the attainment gap reversed by lockdown:

I had the pest last month and it fucked me right up. O₂ levels got right on the cusp of going to horsepital. I'm over it now but have some definite lingering issues. I also manage to narrowly avoid a fite with some fat septic that called me a "librul asshole" for wearing a mask in public. I work in a building that has a geriatric outpatient facility FFS.

That inequality gap is worrisome. A select few have made obscene profit increases, further evidence against the farce of trickle down economics.

Aus to end mandatory isolation and move beyond their ‘emergency phase’ next month. Strange to read of other developed countries still having such stringent measures in place when we’re pretty much back to normal.

On the downside, this year’s predicted strain of flu is a bad one, on top of an almost certain uptick in covid cases and lowered levels of flu immunity in the general pop due to lockdowns. It could be another rough winter.

Blimey. This is quite the thread. I was hoping it was an unreliable account but it’s followers look suitably qualified.

Jaysus. You really want to nail your colours to a mast backed by cheesy pop music? Who is qualified in this anecdotal wank-fest?

As stated, I had a look through the poster’s followers and there’s plenty of people with the correct qualifications, or at least what they purport to be. It was also retweeted by someone who advised the UK govt. during the pandemic. Finally, it’s China, a totalitarian state, who run concentration camps, re-educate ethnic minorities and are widely reported to use very stringent lockdowns enforced by the military. It’s not that much of a stretch to believe what those videos show what is actually happening.

It's still a social media post. With cheesy production values. May be accurate, may not be, and we will never know on the strength of that alone.

What are the qualifications, BTW?

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/05/chin ... index.html

Travel bans in China are making the news.

Looking at that video I don't think you need to have a PHD in biology to recognise that armed personnel in those outfits aren't there for shits and giggles. If thats recent then it would suggest that China is still taking its lockdown policy seriously for zero covid.

morepork wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:53 pm It's still a social media post. With cheesy production values. May be accurate, may not be, and we will never know on the strength of that alone.

What are the qualifications, BTW?

Feel free to look into the quals, the info is on the site.

I wonder how effective the vaccines China used/uses have actually been? I know some countries that have been using them (Thailand, Malaysia, etc) have had mixed efficacy results in the face of new COVID variants. I'd say they are dealing rolling outbreaks.

I deal with a couple of China-based biotechs from time to time and apart from some quarantine requirements, travel in and out has been and is going on. That is not to say that the unwashed public isn't getting shafted harder. Point is taken regarding ethnic minorities.

No way I'm getting lost on Twatter passive-aggressive boy.

Plunging post lockdown attendance rates in free school meal pupils:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpoli ... 4604e007a8

I'm starting to think these updates from you are not really about the biology of COVID.....

They most definitely aren’t.