Lions

[whatisthejava]

And i like Ford as a fly half although the english backline aint ticking right now and the blame seems to be pretty divided between farrel and Ford although i think its more Fords issue

[Which Tyler]

Yes, defence may be the worst part of his game - mostly because he's so good at the other parts. I'd argue even then though, and suggest that, at test level, goal kicking is the worst part of his game.

IMO (as a fan of his club and his country) he doesn't hide out on the wings though - please provide evidence.
He does indeed miss tackles; but very few for a FH, and especially few for a FH renowned as a soft tackler and consistently targetted.
He does indeed give up a few metres - not as many as his reputation would make it seem; but it's a price you pay for having a small guy making the tackles (either go low and allow the offload, giving up the height of the player in metres; or go higher, usualy prevent the offload, but give up 2-3 metres in the tackle).

According to ESPN statistics this season; Ford makes an average of 7.3 tackles per 80 minutes; and brings his man down 90% of the time.
Compare that to his England contenders Farrell (10.3 tackles @76%), Cipriani (another targetted tackler; 10.9 tackles @ 79%); Lozowski (6.5 tackles at 73%); Burns (4.1 tackles @ 76%); Mallinder Jr (6.8 tackles @55%).

If you think his tackle rate is a fluke - over the previous 2 entire seasons he averaged 7.4 tackles @84%.

For someone who avoids tackling - he's really, really bad at it; and for someone who fails to tackle when given the chance, he's got a remarkably high tackle copmletion rate.

[OptimisticJock]

Ford is a fanny in the tackle.

[Renniks]

Euge I never said, I started this slagging off people who thought Ford was a better defender than russel. I have even said Ford is a good solid englishesque fly half.

Have you found any yet?

Nobody, it started on 606

And that's without mentioning that it's not even slightly what you actually said

Ford cant tackle wont tackle

Which is demonstrably untrue; and what you got called out for.

Im not sure its demonstrably untrue, maybe a wee bit untrue, but Fords tackling is the worst bit of his game, but he is

hiding out on the wings
misisng tackles
when making tackles giving up quite a few metres

Are we watching the same player?

I don't think he misses any more tackles than Russell does (this Six Nations stats would appear to back that up too).

He does give up a few meters, which, if I could have a more talented attacking fly half, who gave up less meters, I'd take, but I'm not sure we have that many knocking on the door (Lozowski and Burns, maybe?)

---
Would I take him to the Lions, I'm not sure, but he can tackle, and does tackle.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Euge I never said, I started this slagging off people who thought Ford was a better defender than russel. I have even said Ford is a good solid englishesque fly half.

I guess you forgot what you posted here as opposed to 606.

I had a quick look on 606

When this place swept out the dross even they didnt go to 606.

Honestly quotes so far

Itoje for captain
Farrel for 13 and Ringrose at 12
Ford ahead of Russel for 10 (never mind Ford cant tackle wont tackle)
haskell is leading contender for 7 because he is an out and out 7
Bigger threw AWJ and then 1/2p undr the bus FACT


Mental,

[Mellsblue]

Euge I never said, I started this slagging off people who thought Ford was a better defender than russel. I have even said Ford is a good solid englishesque fly half.

Have you found any yet?

Nobody, it started on 606

And that's without mentioning that it's not even slightly what you actually said

Ford cant tackle wont tackle

Which is demonstrably untrue; and what you got called out for.

Im not sure its demonstrably untrue, maybe a wee bit untrue, but Fords tackling is the worst bit of his game, but he is

hiding out on the wings
misisng tackles
when making tackles giving up quite a few metres

Is he hiding out on the wings? He may find himself there from time to time but then who doesn't. I haven't looked for it particularly but off first phase he stands in the 10 channel, even off things such as lineouts where he can be easily targeted.

[bruce]

Whether it be good, bad or indifferent, tackling aside. I just don't get the Ford thing. Perhaps I need to watch him more closely during a game, but he is in my mind too anonymous. Too often I will begrudgingly applaud a nice kick out of hand from England to find out it was Daly, or a decent flat pass to find out it was Farrell. To me he just doesn't have that air of command that a 10 needs, and I would take all of the other starting and some of the replacement home nations 10's before Ford.

[kk67]

You do. He's quality.
.....he's like a 9.5 and a 10...?.

[Cameo]

I dont know how this has become the Ford threat but I might as well join in. I think he's class. He's lost his spark a wee bit but still does the basics very well and has a natural feeling for putting people into space

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I dont know how this has become the Ford threat but I might as well join in. I think he's class. He's lost his spark a wee bit but still does the basics very well and has a natural feeling for putting people into space

Exactly this.

[Spiffy]

I dont know how this has become the Ford threat but I might as well join in. I think he's class. He's lost his spark a wee bit but still does the basics very well and has a natural feeling for putting people into space

His natural game is throttled by having Farrell at 12.

[Which Tyler]

I dont know how this has become the Ford threat but I might as well join in. I think he's class. He's lost his spark a wee bit but still does the basics very well and has a natural feeling for putting people into space

His natural game is throttled by having Farrell at 12.

Not to mention (usually) hamstrung by Ben Youngs at 9

[Renniks]

He still has a great mis-pass, a great delayed-pass, his kicking to space is usually great (though his up and under seems poor lately), he also brings the ball to the line regularly, and has players run on his shoulder.

[Big D]

I now have no doubt who will put in a MOTM performance on Saturday.

[switchskier]

So Rob Howley, Lions backs coach, has just picked the same team for Wales again. So how many welshmen do you think will be in the backline for the first test? I'm going to guess at four, none of whom I'd select (Bigger, Davies, North and Halfpenny).

[Big D]

So Rob Howley, Lions backs coach, has just picked the same team for Wales again. So how many welshmen do you think will be in the backline for the first test? I'm going to guess at four, none of whom I'd select (Bigger, Davies, North and Halfpenny).

There is no chance the stand off is not Sexton unless he is injured.

[whatisthejava]

Think the welsh that will be going on tour are

Warberton
AWJ
Tuperic
Webb
L Williams
Halfpenny
J Davis

Warburton, tuperic prob deserve to be on the plane on form

[af73]

I now have no doubt who the TV pundits will award will put in a MOTM to performance on Saturday.

Fixed

[kk67]

I dont know how this has become the Ford threat but I might as well join in. I think he's class. He's lost his spark a wee bit but still does the basics very well and has a natural feeling for putting people into space

His natural game is throttled by having Farrell at 12.

No. These Lads know each others game.

[whatisthejava]

2 interesting articles in the telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... ayswarren/

Interesting, Gatland is saying that some of the Scots are in with a chance but they need to prove themselves away from home, he suggests that if the Scots to win we would get more players than if we lose but then goes on to say its the head to head match ups that are more important.
He also goes onto say that wales are probably in more need of a win then Scotland.

Clearly a change from 4 years ago from going from we may get 1 - 2 to actually we are seen as equals but at the same time i cant help but feel Gatland is looking for excuses to exclude Scots although im not sure how much of that is habit. I also think Gataland isnt coming back to Wales.

Second article is the lions team picked today

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... lane-face/


R Gray
j Gray
H Watson
G Laidlaw
F Russel
A Dunbar
H Jones
T Seymore
S Hogg

9 scots (3 forwards 6 backs)
11 irish (4 backs 7 forwards)
10 english (8 forwards 2 backs)
6 welsh (3 forwards 3 backs)

36 man tour
Still think guys like F Brown, Price have a chance of making the squad, with Weeg v Sarries coming up a big chance for the Glasgow based players to stake a claim after the 6N


Some of the lucky players
Farrell - I like Farrel but he seems to take some stick for the way England are playing
Heaslip - to old
AWJ - If he went it should be tour captain
hartley - Think Brown will displace him or he will get a red card by end of the season and miss the whole thing
North - In no form at all
J Davis - Think JJ, Bennet,Ringrose will take this considering Bennet and Ringrose both in last 8 of the HEC
Laidlaw - Injured but he might lose out to either Webb or Price

[AL.]

As we know Gatland is a fud. Do we really want half our squad taken away for the summer and given a hiding, or should Toonie have them all together to start his tenure?

[Big D]

As we know Gatland is a fud. Do we really want half our squad taken away for the summer and given a hiding, or should Toonie have them all together to start his tenure?

Absolutely I want them to go. The players will hold the Lions in the highest regards. By going it will show them they are equal or even better than those From other countries.

In VCs 1st tour he scattered the caps around a bit and this tour gives a chance to look at others where the players ahead are practically undroppable. Second row, wing, full back as examples.

[AL.]

As we know Gatland is a fud. Do we really want half our squad taken away for the summer and given a hiding, or should Toonie have them all together to start his tenure?

Absolutely I want them to go. The players will hold the Lions in the highest regards. By going it will show them they are equal or even better than those From other countries.

In VCs 1st tour he scattered the caps around a bit and this tour gives a chance to look at others where the players ahead are practically undroppable. Second row, wing, full back as examples.

Fair point, when you look at it like that.

[Big D]

As we know Gatland is a fud. Do we really want half our squad taken away for the summer and given a hiding, or should Toonie have them all together to start his tenure?

Absolutely I want them to go. The players will hold the Lions in the highest regards. By going it will show them they are equal or even better than those From other countries.

In VCs 1st tour he scattered the caps around a bit and this tour gives a chance to look at others where the players ahead are practically undroppable. Second row, wing, full back as examples.

Fair point, when you look at it like that.

Also we never get to tour NZ anymore so It'll be good for the players from that POV.
Looking at the guys who have a sniff to go:

Brown - Should be in with a shout - Would be great experience, we have Ford, Rambo and even Cochrane who could do a job on our tour.
Nel - If he is fit before the EOS then he could still go - Probably better if he didn't do either tour but it would be more experience of starting for ZJRF.
The Grays - At least one should be going - Toolis, Swinson, Gilchrist and the young 'uns can cover.
Watson/Barclay - Outside chances - Hardie should be ok to tour, others can cover if need be.
Laidlaw - Outside chance - I'd rather Price start anyway.
Finn - Chance to tour - Would present the biggest problem
Centres - Chance to tour - We have them coming out our ears.
Seymour - Should tour - Visser/Maitland/Hoyland/Jones/etc.
Hogg - Should tour - We need to find his back up and have a proper contingency plan anyway.

A worst case touring startng XV assuming some fitness of:
Reid, Ford, ZJRF
Swinson, Toolis
Wilson, Strauss, Hardie
Price
Horne
Scott, Taylor
Visser, Hoyland/Jones
Maitland

With a bench of say: Rambo, Dell, Welsh, Gilchrist, CdP, Pyrgos, Weir and Bennett.

That isn't the worst by any stretch.

[Big D]

Some of the lucky players
Farrell - I like Farrel but he seems to take some stick for the way England are playing
Heaslip - to old
AWJ - If he went it should be tour captain
hartley - Think Brown will displace him or he will get a red card by end of the season and miss the whole thing
North - In no form at all
J Davis - Think JJ, Bennet,Ringrose will take this considering Bennet and Ringrose both in last 8 of the HEC
Laidlaw - Injured but he might lose out to either Webb or Price

Farrell covers 10 and 12 so will definitely go.
Heaslip won't go. Vunipola and not Toby are better.
AWJ - I wouldn't pick him to tour as it stands.
Bennett would need to have a couple of massive MoTM type performances in Europe to have a sniff IMO. Ringrose has a shot.
Agree re Hartley, North and Laidlaw.