1872 Cup Champions

[septic 9]

Doubt the head coach is involved in that part of negotiations past agreeing to take him on pending the work visa application being successful.

you're right, I meant more that his squad was cocked up. poor wording on my part.

Due by Edinburgh though should have been better I think. I know Lance was working in the UK, but new employer should check first and delay announcements until they have the ok from the home office.

His work visa apparently runs out later this year and because he hasn't played the requisite number of games he can't get a visa.

Some journos on twitter suggesting Edinburgh always said the deal was pending a visa but it still seems a failure by announcing it early. More work required to fill that hole. I am keen to give Chamberlain a chance but RC and DH are risk averse as coaches.

every foreign signing (ie currently non EU) is subject to visa, usually subject to medical as well. And the rules around getting a visa are in the main pretty clear. I'm not sure how he got a visa in the first place, but in the current climate and with the current govt it really was head in the sand stupidity not to double check before announcing.

I agree, Cockerill especially is very risk averse with younger players. Prefers to "buy in" than develop.

[Big D]

Decent overview of the Edinburgh squad. One or two players missing from the depth chart but it is a good summary:
https://ontopofthemoon.com/2020/06/15/e ... o-2020-21/

[General Zod]

Hooker signs from Soup or sex.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... en-2896995

[Cameo]

Article on Scott leaving - sounds like he was messed around a bit but seems to have taken it remarkably well

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/matt-sco ... -cockerill

[switchskier]

I see that the Pro 14 has come up with a solution to finish the season by basically getting each team to play two derby games followed by playoffs. To two teams from each conference qualify for the semis.

Not sure why they're bothering as Ulster and Munster are 9 and 8 points clear in second, so the top four looks pretty set. Edinburgh have two games against a Glasgow team with little to play for and who will hopefully be treating it as a preseason but important that they take two wins to get the home semifinal. Munster play Lenister and Connaught, with the first game being a coin toss but the second should be an easy win.

Good news is that it seems both pro teams have made the Champions Cup next year.

[septic 9]

I see that the Pro 14 has come up with a solution to finish the season by basically getting each team to play two derby games followed by playoffs. To two teams from each conference qualify for the semis.

Not sure why they're bothering as Ulster and Munster are 9 and 8 points clear in second, so the top four looks pretty set. Edinburgh have two games against a Glasgow team with little to play for and who will hopefully be treating it as a preseason but important that they take two wins to get the home semifinal. Munster play Lenister and Connaught, with the first game being a coin toss but the second should be an easy win.

Good news is that it seems both pro teams have made the Champions Cup next year.

its a dog's breakfast of an idea. Actually the sensible thing is to scrap this seasons comp and start next seasons which will now be late, messed up by finishing 2020 6N and then an extended Autumn competition for 6N Unions plus 2. why bugger up one season when you can bugger up 2?

What they are doing makes the fixture list stupid, unbalanced and unfair and as you say its 1000 to 1 against changing the SF qualifiers. If they won't write the season off the next most sensible thing would be go straight to SFs

The reason of course is that unless these derbies/warms ups count for this season's pro14, Munster can't get a home SF

[switchskier]

I see that the Pro 14 has come up with a solution to finish the season by basically getting each team to play two derby games followed by playoffs. To two teams from each conference qualify for the semis.

Not sure why they're bothering as Ulster and Munster are 9 and 8 points clear in second, so the top four looks pretty set. Edinburgh have two games against a Glasgow team with little to play for and who will hopefully be treating it as a preseason but important that they take two wins to get the home semifinal. Munster play Lenister and Connaught, with the first game being a coin toss but the second should be an easy win.

Good news is that it seems both pro teams have made the Champions Cup next year.

its a dog's breakfast of an idea. Actually the sensible thing is to scrap this seasons comp and start next seasons which will now be late, messed up by finishing 2020 6N and then an extended Autumn competition for 6N Unions plus 2. why bugger up one season when you can bugger up 2?

What they are doing makes the fixture list stupid, unbalanced and unfair and as you say its 1000 to 1 against changing the SF qualifiers. If they won't write the season off the next most sensible thing would be go straight to SFs

The reason of course is that unless these derbies/warms ups count for this season's pro14, Munster can't get a home SF

Of course. Glasgow should just throw the games to ensure that Munster don't get it. Nothing too obvious, just play a whole bunch of youngsters and try all all of the crazy things that you would normally never try in a competitive match.

The Welsh and Italians have got to be particularly grumpy. Meaningless games and no participation in the playoffs. SA a bit different as I doubt those games ever get played.

[Cameo]

Yeah, it's very strange but no one seems to be criticising it really. The way it works out, Glasgow are just helping out Edinburgh's preparation for the Semi. Hopefully they can find a way to fit it into their preparation for next season.

[Big D]

I see that the Pro 14 has come up with a solution to finish the season by basically getting each team to play two derby games followed by playoffs. To two teams from each conference qualify for the semis.

Not sure why they're bothering as Ulster and Munster are 9 and 8 points clear in second, so the top four looks pretty set. Edinburgh have two games against a Glasgow team with little to play for and who will hopefully be treating it as a preseason but important that they take two wins to get the home semifinal. Munster play Lenister and Connaught, with the first game being a coin toss but the second should be an easy win.

Good news is that it seems both pro teams have made the Champions Cup next year.

its a dog's breakfast of an idea. Actually the sensible thing is to scrap this seasons comp and start next seasons which will now be late, messed up by finishing 2020 6N and then an extended Autumn competition for 6N Unions plus 2. why bugger up one season when you can bugger up 2?

What they are doing makes the fixture list stupid, unbalanced and unfair and as you say its 1000 to 1 against changing the SF qualifiers. If they won't write the season off the next most sensible thing would be go straight to SFs

The reason of course is that unless these derbies/warms ups count for this season's pro14, Munster can't get a home SF

Yes they absolutely should have went straight to the semi finals.

I do wonder whether they have allowed a couple of games to get the players up and running (could have had friendlies instead) or to meet some sort of negotiated TV arrangement to avoid having to pay back more than they really needed to.

The other thing that it allows is to establish whether the COVID testing regime will work (laughing at you Scottish football) and whether there will be a spike in cases when players start playing. It would be a greater embarrassment to call off the rest of the season during the "league" part rather than the play offs.

The leagues should have been cancelled but money talks.

[Croft_No.5]

There are a lot is issues around this. I suspect timing and structure is very much aligned to the restarting of the European QFs/SFs and Final that will then run on into the restructured 6Ns/Festival of rugby. You can sort of see the logic a little, unfortunately the teams/players not involved in the European games suffer from a sort of start - stop - start situation. It would make sense for the remaining Pro14 teams to schedule some friendlies over the European weekends to get in some match practice at least. Heaven only knows what the 2020/21 Pro14 season will look like, especially if they decide to run this during the interim international window!!

[septic 9]

There are a lot is issues around this. I suspect timing and structure is very much aligned to the restarting of the European QFs/SFs and Final that will then run on into the restructured 6Ns/Festival of rugby. You can sort of see the logic a little, unfortunately the teams/players not involved in the European games suffer from a sort of start - stop - start situation. It would make sense for the remaining Pro14 teams to schedule some friendlies over the European weekends to get in some match practice at least. Heaven only knows what the 2020/21 Pro14 season will look like, especially if they decide to run this during the interim international window!!

Think they have to, at least in part. The desperation to get next season over before the Lions tour, and a later start to the 20/21 season means there is little room for respite, and clubs will be without players for the opening european fixture as well if WR get their way. Eng and French teams will not let this go without a fight.

[switchskier]

We probably don't need another young second row but this lad sounds intriguing. I'd guess it'll be a couple of years until we see him though, if he actually signs.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/oguntibe ... edinburgh/

[Big D]

Interesting selection decisions for Edinburgh for tomorrows game.

Would think the front row plus replacements pick themselves but with Toolis out and the options at backrow the back 5 selection will be interesting.

Will be good to see the all SQ back 3 play together again.

Big step up from Chamberlain if on the bench.

[Mikey Brown]

Wow.

[Cameo]

I know I am sometimes unduly negative about Edinburgh as I find them a chore to watch but I'm afraid that was standard Edinburgh when they come up against a good team. Not that they don't win any but they play so slowly that they don't score enough points when they are on top and leave teams in the game. I also worry about the conditioning of some of the forwards and how it then translates to internationals played at a quicker speed.

They have an international pack better player for player than almost any club pack around but they try to use them to grind. Graham and DVDM are so dangerous but how often to Edinburgh's backs look fluid.

Good on them for being so consistent throughout the season but they need to build on that to get to the next level.

[Mikey Brown]

Managed to totally forget this was on. The commentators were saying it was a great game but maybe that doesn’t mean much.

I only managed to tune in (at 19-12) for the final 10 minute masterclass on taking men out past the ball and pinning opposition tacklers in to rucks to milk penalties. Fair play to Ulster I guess. Edinburgh looked pooped.

[paddy no 11]

Gave away 5 penalties for killing the ball when they didn't need to this directly led to 2 mauled trys. The better team lost but yes maybe forwards fatigue caused them to concede those ridiculous penalties

[septic 9]

coulda shoulda put more scores on the board first half, but as so often in the past, choked when a bit of pressure came on.

Instead of being confident in systems, structures and themselves (which they had every right to be) they played as if by numbers and scared to make mistakes - yet made so many.

Lack of leadership second half and piss poor coaching too - was obvious 15mins into 2nd half the momentum was changing big time - even before Dean's try. With 20 to go it was one way traffic. Yet where was the intervention to play smarter, solid rugby? The clear instruction not to give Murphy decisions to make at the breakdown? (NB his decisions were mainly fine and a couple iffy both ways).
no, either didn't come or ignored, Gilchrist apart from his obligatory not rolling away pens disappeared, McInally and Watson who had superb first halfs went into a shell. VDW just isn't good enough and sat miles behind the gain line all night.
And to crown it Willemse comes on. I suppose at least his error this time wasn't a mucked up line out throw. Who thought signing this guy was a good idea?

They choked, at home, again. Just as they did IIRC (against Zebre?) early in Cockerill's reign when 20 pts up. Sometimes you wonder if much has really changed, or the rest of the pro14 just got worse in comparison.

[Cameo]

I don't think the rest of the pro14 has got worse but I do think that, given how much Edinburgh's squad has improved, their rise hasn't been as dramatic as made out.

[Adder]

Or this covid break has stomped Edinburgh's dynamic...

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk

[septic 9]

I don't think the rest of the pro14 has got worse but I do think that, given how much Edinburgh's squad has improved, their rise hasn't been as dramatic as made out.

I said that as a bit of a throwaway wind up I guess, but in truth Leinster have got better than ever, and Edinburgh have improved dramatically, I think the rest were either treading water or regressed last season.
Treading water - Munster, Ulster, Benneton, Zebre, Cheetahs, Connacht, Kings (only because they couldn't honestly regress further)
Regressed - Glasgow, Dragons, Cardiff, Scarlets and Ospreys . The latter in free fall

I think overall it was weaker

[Soapy]

I don't think the rest of the pro14 has got worse but I do think that, given how much Edinburgh's squad has improved, their rise hasn't been as dramatic as made out.

We're not going to progress with Hodge involved.

Even allowing for Cockerill's focus on a forward-orientated game, Hodge has fails to deliver cohesion across the backs and a plan that doesn't involve the midfield backs being caught miles behind the gainline and isolated in contact. Exacerbated by Kinghorn repeatedly pretending he's going to go through the outside channel before stepping back into contact and dying with the ball - now his go-to approach.

When we are on top we never push home the advantage to the extent we should and we let the other team stay in the game when it should be dead and buried.

Of course, the lack of leadership and ability to execute basics under pressure are other relevant factors ...

[switchskier]

Well it was a disappointing result and performance to end an encouraging season. It does feel like the squad is deep and ready to win, but that something is holding it back just a touch.

Haven't seen that much of them recently so can't say I've noticed Kinghorn repeatedly stepping back inside. But if true it's a pretty damning indictment of the backs coaching team given how effective he was hitting weak outside shoulders 18 months ago.

[septic 9]

We're not going to progress with Hodge involved.

Even allowing for Cockerill's focus on a forward-orientated game, Hodge has fails to deliver cohesion across the backs and a plan that doesn't involve the midfield backs being caught miles behind the gainline and isolated in contact.

I'm jury out on Hodge - I've not seen what he can do with a decent full set of backs. He didn't sign and promote VDW who always sits miles behind the gainline, as you say was a major issue v Ulster. Made Edin so easy to defend.
The 10/12 pairing especially are a real problem - which went better with Scott last season who has a far more varied skill set than Dean. At 12 Dean is mainly a truck it up rather than a distributer, so he needs a 10 lying flat on gainline, VDW cannot/will not give that. He is essentially a kicking 10, a Cockerill 10.

[Cameo]

Well it was a disappointing result and performance to end an encouraging season. It does feel like the squad is deep and ready to win, but that something is holding it back just a touch.

Haven't seen that much of them recently so can't say I've noticed Kinghorn repeatedly stepping back inside. But if true it's a pretty damning indictment of the backs coaching team given how effective he was hitting weak outside shoulders 18 months ago.

It was very noticeable in the Ulster game. It's the kind of thing that leads each time to a gain of a few metres as he is big and has decent feet/acceleration but rarely leads to a proper break. Hard to say how much it was him but I suspect that it is as much the fact that the timing always seems off on every Edinburgh backs move. I honestly don't think they work on their passing enough.