RugbyRebels

switchskier wrote:Is hooker the lions weakest position? Owens has been pretty ineffective today, Best looks old and Hartley is, well, Hartley.

Yeah, it's a bit ropey there alright, neither of our two have been particularly eye catching either. I would just take the ones that have the best throwing percentage, as we will have some pretty bullet proof jumpers for him to hit.

Best would be my lions captain pick if he could just unfuck his darts.

Edinburgh in Exile wrote:

switchskier wrote:Is hooker the lions weakest position? Owens has been pretty ineffective today, Best looks old and Hartley is, well, Hartley.

Yeah, it's a bit ropey there alright, neither of our two have been particularly eye catching either. I would just take the ones that have the best throwing percentage, as we will have some pretty bullet proof jumpers for him to hit.

Best would be my lions captain pick if he could just unfuck his darts.

He seems to reserve it for Lions years. Absolutely fine inbetween. he definitely doesn't look old though.

Lovely piece of work from the Walrus in the Sunday Times today.

2 Scots in the squad - Strauss and Maitland.
12 Welshmen

Hogg misses out due to lack of physical stature ...yet he picks Halfpenny.

"The closest Scottish lock to selection here is Jim Hamilton, long forgotten by his national side"

He also forgets to pick Ian Henderson despite another article in the same paper where he said he was now a shoo-in.

I wonder if the lack of top class hookers these days is related to the emphasis on size, power & speed as opposed to skills. Rugby doesn't seem to have many top scrum halves around these days either.

I'd say so. It's the one position that if you were putting together a World XXIII, and all players were fit, a Lions player wouldn't be anywhere near the discussion.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:I wonder if the lack of top class hookers these days is related to the emphasis on size, power & speed as opposed to skills. Rugby doesn't seem to have many top scrum halves around these days either.

Just because someone​ is physically gifted doesn't mean that they can't have great skills, though perhaps they work on them less because their physical gifts allow them to do so.

Also Best looked old ten years ago but i think that he's slowed a step the past two seasons. Still very good over the ball but gets there fractionally less often (without any statistical evidence to back that up).

Mellsblue wrote:I'd say so. It's the one position that if you were putting together a World XXIII, and all players were fit, a Lions player wouldn't be anywhere near the discussion.

that's a fair point actually.

switchskier wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:I wonder if the lack of top class hookers these days is related to the emphasis on size, power & speed as opposed to skills. Rugby doesn't seem to have many top scrum halves around these days either.

Just because someone​ is physically gifted doesn't mean that they can't have great skills, though perhaps they work on them less because their physical gifts allow them to do so.

Also Best looked old ten years ago but i think that he's slowed a step the past two seasons. Still very good over the ball but gets there fractionally less often (without any statistical evidence to back that up).

i think that with the emergence of Furlong and the progress of McGrath he's not having to do the breakdown work of the entire front row. He's never been dynamic in the mould of Dane Coles - who is - but I don't think he's slowed down more than a tiny touch. I hadn't realised he was 34. I wouldn't be surprised if he retired from Test rugby after the Lions.

I hope they take Best. Mainly as on form he's the best we have but also because I don't want his horror show in Oz to be his sole Lions experience.

Mellsblue wrote:I hope they take Best. Mainly as on form he's the best we have but also because I don't want his horror show in Oz to be his sole Lions experience.

Aye he's better than that. I maintain he should be captain as well as hev won't have a hissy fit if he doesn't make the xv or even xxiii

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I hope they take Best. Mainly as on form he's the best we have but also because I don't want his horror show in Oz to be his sole Lions experience.

Aye he's better than that. I maintain he should be captain as well as hev won't have a hissy fit if he doesn't make the xv or even xxiii

He is better but he doesn't show it for the lions so why should he get the nod ahead of someone else.

His form this year has been poor (for him) in domestic, European and international level.

whatisthejava wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I hope they take Best. Mainly as on form he's the best we have but also because I don't want his horror show in Oz to be his sole Lions experience.

Aye he's better than that. I maintain he should be captain as well as hev won't have a hissy fit if he doesn't make the xv or even xxiii

He is better but he doesn't show it for the lions so why should he get the nod ahead of someone else.

His form this year has been poor (for him) in domestic, European and international level.

You're seriously going on his form 4 years ago?

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:
Aye he's better than that. I maintain he should be captain as well as hev won't have a hissy fit if he doesn't make the xv or even xxiii

He is better but he doesn't show it for the lions so why should he get the nod ahead of someone else.

His form this year has been poor (for him) in domestic, European and international level.

You're seriously going on his form 4 years ago?

Much more relevant that captaining Ireland to a win over NZ four months ago.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:
Aye he's better than that. I maintain he should be captain as well as hev won't have a hissy fit if he doesn't make the xv or even xxiii

He is better but he doesn't show it for the lions so why should he get the nod ahead of someone else.

His form this year has been poor (for him) in domestic, European and international level.

You're seriously going on his form 4 years ago?

No im not but he seems to dip in lions years

last year he was out and out the best british hooker , he hasnt been helped by Ulster being a bit baws this year, but he started out after the autumn as a shoe in for the 23, with some arguing he should make the 15 but now he isnt,

This year you could justify him being 4th choice behind Owens, hartley and Geore (not in that order)

ARM wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

whatisthejava wrote: He is better but he doesn't show it for the lions so why should he get the nod ahead of someone else.

His form this year has been poor (for him) in domestic, European and international level.

You're seriously going on his form 4 years ago?

Much more relevant that captaining Ireland to a win over NZ four months ago.

Most of that irish team have dipped since the NZ game, god knows why , how you go from outscoring the all blacks to not being able to buy a try in the backs in 8 games is beyond me

Had a look at the Lion's teams of various pundits in the press and Hogg is the only Scot that makes the starting XVs (not only the only Scot but also the only Scottish back despite the Scottish back line being the most dangerous in the 6N). The calls, for the most part are fair-enough, but you could also make a number of other fair-enough calls in which two or three other Scots would get the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm wrong and being overly neurotic but there is I suspect still a bit of bias against Scots.

Matt Ha wrote:Had a look at the Lion's teams of various pundits in the press and Hogg is the only Scot that makes the starting XVs (not only the only Scot but also the only Scottish back despite the Scottish back line being the most dangerous in the 6N). The calls, for the most part are fair-enough, but you could also make a number of other fair-enough calls in which two or three other Scots would get the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm wrong and being overly neurotic but there is I suspect still a bit of bias against Scots.

That there Calcutta Cup match did a lot of damage.

Strange that a bad 80 mins in defense wipes away 400 mins of crap attack by Wales and a Ireland.

Stones of granite wrote:

Matt Ha wrote:Had a look at the Lion's teams of various pundits in the press and Hogg is the only Scot that makes the starting XVs (not only the only Scot but also the only Scottish back despite the Scottish back line being the most dangerous in the 6N). The calls, for the most part are fair-enough, but you could also make a number of other fair-enough calls in which two or three other Scots would get the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm wrong and being overly neurotic but there is I suspect still a bit of bias against Scots.

That there Calcutta Cup match did a lot of damage.

Absolutely. Standing up to players that are clearly better than you & performing in an intimidating away environment are two important pre-requisites for facing NZ in NZ. We failed on both counts. It's not bias.

I suspect it'll be Hogg & Seymour. J Gray if AWJ is out.

whatisthejava wrote:Strange that a bad 80 mins in defense wipes away 400 mins of crap attack by Wales and a Ireland.

It's not 80 minutes of bad defense its 80 minutes of complete mental fragility and we all know it.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:Strange that a bad 80 mins in defense wipes away 400 mins of crap attack by Wales and a Ireland.

It's not 80 minutes of bad defense its 80 minutes of complete mental fragility and we all know it.

Yeah , i cant disagree but id still rather take players who are going to challenge the all blacks defence then run straight into them all day every day but i think its finding an excuse that suits you, its a big one and the players only have themselves to blame.

I think it probabbly suits Scotland wither way because Australia dont look like they are in great shakes and if Toonie settles in quick we could have the nonsence of Scotland beating Oz in Oz at the same time as the Lions failing to score a try against the all blacks

Regardless of how good the english backs are, how quickly will Howley destroy their confidence)

whatisthejava wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:Strange that a bad 80 mins in defense wipes away 400 mins of crap attack by Wales and a Ireland.

It's not 80 minutes of bad defense its 80 minutes of complete mental fragility and we all know it.

Yeah , i cant disagree but id still rather take players who are going to challenge the all blacks defence then run straight into them all day every day but i think its finding an excuse that suits you, its a big one and the players only have themselves to blame.

I think it probabbly suits Scotland wither way because Australia dont look like they are in great shakes and if Toonie settles in quick we could have the nonsence of Scotland beating Oz in Oz at the same time as the Lions failing to score a try against the all blacks

Regardless of how good the english backs are, how quickly will Howley destroy their confidence)

As you pointed out it's not that relevant as Howley is coaching them.

Yup Scotland exposed their psychological weaknesses against England but you can also say the same about other teams. Ireland, beat the All Blacks but struggled for form all 6Ns. Was it coaching or in the mind? Wales, not at the races for most of the tournament despite the talent they have. Even England were thrown off kilter, and as a consequence were awful, for 40 minutes against Italy, and failed put aside an Irish team struggling for form.

Matt Ha wrote:Had a look at the Lion's teams of various pundits in the press and Hogg is the only Scot that makes the starting XVs (not only the only Scot but also the only Scottish back despite the Scottish back line being the most dangerous in the 6N). The calls, for the most part are fair-enough, but you could also make a number of other fair-enough calls in which two or three other Scots would get the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm wrong and being overly neurotic but there is I suspect still a bit of bias against Scots.

Spikey Phillips has Seymour and Hogg in his.

If we are talking about starting the test matches then there is pretty stiff competition and the England game will be fresh in the memory. The discussion about starting a test match is very different than the squad discussion.

Being realistic talking about starting the test series:
Nel is injured otherwise would have had a massive shout.
Gray (either as I think Richie out performed his wee bro this 6N) - Pundits have an erection for AWJ as captain and the English boys were dominant against us and have been pretty good all 6N.
Dunbar - was very quiet with ball in hand and there is merit in a Sexton/Henshaw or Sexton/Farrell combo so I can see the logic.
Jones - JJ is very good. The Lions have some pretty good options at 13.
Seymour - I rate him and would start him but there are a few good wingers about. I would start him though.
Hogg - Best FB in GB+I by a long way.

Spikey. Good player, handsome,....not a good selector.
Made me laugh hearing Conrad had never watched an entire 6N's game before. He's been busy playing and sleeping,...of course he hasn't seen one.

Trying not to get caught up in these but just reading the lions selections in the guardian. Not the worst but some people just see a different game than me. Jack Nowell in the starting team even though he was one of the few England players who played as badly as Scotland at Twickenham and barely gets in the England team. Also, I really rate Liam Williams but he didnt do much this six nations did he. Certainly not to get ahead of Hogg