Europe - in or out - RR Votes

[kk67]

I can't be arsed reading 20 pages,.....has anyone posted the thoughts of John Llewellyn, former OECD chief economist...?.

[Banquo]

It'll take some months, maybe years, maybe never.

Yes, apols, I'm being a little unthinking given the real immediate impact for you.

I wonder what I will spit when the feathers run out.

It's all good, what client doesn't want to hear you might be able to provide a service depending on the outcome of 12-36 months of uncertainty.

Indeed

[Lizard]

I can't be arsed reading 20 pages,.....has anyone posted the thoughts of John Llewellyn, former OECD chief economist...?.

Not that I can recall...

[jared_7]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/28/butcher-h ... t-5971947/

Someone needs to step up and take control, this ship is sinking. Fast.

[Banquo]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/28/butcher-h ... t-5971947/

Someone needs to step up and take control, this ship is sinking. Fast.

and not in the predicted way, though maybe predictable. This is Dave and Teresa's gig immediately, and also the british people's.

[Len]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/28/butcher-h ... t-5971947/

Someone needs to step up and take control, this ship is sinking. Fast.

Too early to draw comparisons between present day Britain and 1930s Germany? They even hosted the Olympics recently.

Did Farage just paint a huge target on the British economy today? You need us more than we need you I think is the phrase he used. A challenge if ever I heard one. First thing he said was who is laughing now? Great. People not only voted on the back of lies but also so he could get personal vindication against a few Europeans that laughed at him 17 years ago. Guy is a weapons grade bellend. Lucklily I think the Europeans are aware of this

[Lizard]

Jebus. So you've got random loonies wandering around attacking racial minorities on a scale of verbal abuse to firebombing, meanwhile thousands are taking to the streets to demonstrate in favour of the EU (and 4,000,000 have now signed that petition). So it's only a matter of time until the loonies get organised, or the Remainers get violent, and you'll have some serious riots on your hands. Or is the geographical divide stark enough to prevent the two from meeting in serious numbers?

[cashead]

It does make the Prime Ministership a bit of a poisoned chalice for anyone who's there to pick up the pieces after Cameron. There were quite a few fightin' words in the EU Parliament, and it looks like they're in an Example-making mood once Artlce 50 is invoked by the Brits. No wonder Cameron jumped early.

[UGagain]

I wonder who would be allowed to vote in your world?

This thread is rich in irony. And bigotry.

A nineteenth century contempt for countries and peoples, depending on their degree of colonial usefulness, remains a centrepiece of modern “globalisation”, with its perverse socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor: its freedom for capital and denial of freedom to labour; its perfidious politicians and politicised civil servants.

All this has now come home to Europe, enriching the likes of Tony Blair and impoverishing and disempowering millions. On 23 June, the British said no more.

The most effective propagandists of the “European ideal” have not been the far right, but an insufferably patrician class for whom metropolitan London is the United Kingdom. Its leading members see themselves as liberal, enlightened, cultivated tribunes of the 21st century zeitgeist, even “cool”. What they really are is a bourgeoisie with insatiable consumerist tastes and ancient instincts of their own superiority. In their house paper, the Guardian, they have gloated, day after day, at those who would even consider the EU profoundly undemocratic, a source of social injustice and a virulent extremism known as “neoliberalism”.

On the morning after the vote, a BBC radio reporter welcomed politicians to his studio as old chums. “Well,” he said to “Lord” Peter Mandelson, the disgraced architect of Blairism, “why do these people want it so badly?” The “these people” are the majority of Britons.

The wealthy war criminal Tony Blair remains a hero of the Mandelson “European” class, though few will say so these days.

[UGagain]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/28/butcher-h ... t-5971947/

Someone needs to step up and take control, this ship is sinking. Fast.

Too early to draw comparisons between present day Britain and 1930s Germany? They even hosted the Olympics recently.

Did Farage just paint a huge target on the British economy today? You need us more than we need you I think is the phrase he used. A challenge if ever I heard one. First thing he said was who is laughing now? Great. People not only voted on the back of lies but also so he could get personal vindication against a few Europeans that laughed at him 17 years ago. Guy is a weapons grade bellend. Lucklily I think the Europeans are aware of this

The leavers certainly spread some fanciful economic forecasting. But they were outgunned be the remainers.

Cameron and Osborne both made statements that UK pensions were at risk if the UK left the EU.

That's a flat out lie.

How does that fit into your theory?

The vast majority outright lying in economic terms came from the remain camp. They wheeled out every neoliberal institution on the face of the planet to talk gobbledegook.

[Stones of granite]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/28/butcher-h ... t-5971947/

Someone needs to step up and take control, this ship is sinking. Fast.

Too early to draw comparisons between present day Britain and 1930s Germany? They even hosted the Olympics recently.

Did Farage just paint a huge target on the British economy today? You need us more than we need you I think is the phrase he used. A challenge if ever I heard one. First thing he said was who is laughing now? Great. People not only voted on the back of lies but also so he could get personal vindication against a few Europeans that laughed at him 17 years ago. Guy is a weapons grade bellend. Lucklily I think the Europeans are aware of this

The leavers certainly spread some fanciful economic forecasting. But they were outgunned be the remainers.

Cameron and Osborne both made statements that UK pensions were at risk if the UK left the EU.

That's a flat out lie.

How does that fit into your theory?

The vast majority outright lying in economic terms came from the remain camp. They wheeled out every neoliberal institution on the face of the planet to talk gobbledegook.

I think each of us will have a different perspective on who lied the most depending on our individual bias. For me, nothing was as barefaced a lie as this



and yet, 17 million people fell for it.

[jared_7]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/28/butcher-h ... t-5971947/

Someone needs to step up and take control, this ship is sinking. Fast.

Too early to draw comparisons between present day Britain and 1930s Germany? They even hosted the Olympics recently.

Did Farage just paint a huge target on the British economy today? You need us more than we need you I think is the phrase he used. A challenge if ever I heard one. First thing he said was who is laughing now? Great. People not only voted on the back of lies but also so he could get personal vindication against a few Europeans that laughed at him 17 years ago. Guy is a weapons grade bellend. Lucklily I think the Europeans are aware of this

The leavers certainly spread some fanciful economic forecasting. But they were outgunned be the remainers.

Cameron and Osborne both made statements that UK pensions were at risk if the UK left the EU.

That's a flat out lie.

How does that fit into your theory?

The vast majority outright lying in economic terms came from the remain camp. They wheeled out every neoliberal institution on the face of the planet to talk gobbledegook.

I completely agree with your economics in theory. But I'd still be interested to know how you think Gove, Johnson and Farage are going to manage this transition and whether you genuinely think they have the UKs interests at heart. They are already talking about spending cuts and tax hikes (likely for the lower and middle classes) - I'm pretty sure that's not what you had in mind.

I also think you can't ignore why the majority voted, and it wasn't sovereignty. That's fine, but someone needs to put a lid on this "blame immigrants" thing ASAP because the stuff you are seeing is just a the tip of the iceberg. As I've previously mentioned, I know a number of people close to me who have copped it. It's not media spin.

[Len]

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/28/butcher-h ... t-5971947/

Someone needs to step up and take control, this ship is sinking. Fast.

Too early to draw comparisons between present day Britain and 1930s Germany? They even hosted the Olympics recently.

Did Farage just paint a huge target on the British economy today? You need us more than we need you I think is the phrase he used. A challenge if ever I heard one. First thing he said was who is laughing now? Great. People not only voted on the back of lies but also so he could get personal vindication against a few Europeans that laughed at him 17 years ago. Guy is a weapons grade bellend. Lucklily I think the Europeans are aware of this

The leavers certainly spread some fanciful economic forecasting. But they were outgunned be the remainers.

Cameron and Osborne both made statements that UK pensions were at risk if the UK left the EU.

That's a flat out lie.

How does that fit into your theory?

The vast majority outright lying in economic terms came from the remain camp. They wheeled out every neoliberal institution on the face of the planet to talk gobbledegook.

What is my theory? Politicians lie. If the morons with a dislike for people from other backgrounds hadn't voted would leave have topped the polls?

We know you don't like Xenophobes. So how does it sit with you how the Britons are treating migrants on the back of this referendum? I'm more worried about the civil state of the UK now.

Heres what a guy I considered a mate just posted in FB, hes British

[UGagain]

Too early to draw comparisons between present day Britain and 1930s Germany? They even hosted the Olympics recently.

Did Farage just paint a huge target on the British economy today? You need us more than we need you I think is the phrase he used. A challenge if ever I heard one. First thing he said was who is laughing now? Great. People not only voted on the back of lies but also so he could get personal vindication against a few Europeans that laughed at him 17 years ago. Guy is a weapons grade bellend. Lucklily I think the Europeans are aware of this

The leavers certainly spread some fanciful economic forecasting. But they were outgunned be the remainers.

Cameron and Osborne both made statements that UK pensions were at risk if the UK left the EU.

That's a flat out lie.

How does that fit into your theory?

The vast majority outright lying in economic terms came from the remain camp. They wheeled out every neoliberal institution on the face of the planet to talk gobbledegook.

What is my theory? Politicians lie. If the morons with a dislike for people from other backgrounds hadn't voted would leave have topped the polls?

We know you don't like Xenophobes. So how does it sit with you how the Britons are treating migrants on the back of this referendum? I'm more worried about the civil state of the UK now.

Heres what a guy I considered a mate just posted in FB, hes British

I don't know that anything much has changed.

I don't believe much of the hysteria being reported in the press.

[UGagain]

It did not seem to occur to …[those who claimed it was the “equivalent of the Visigoths’ sacking of Rome”] … that the decision to leave the EU was the product of a vote in which a majority of his fellow-citizens had simply, as part of their democratic right, acted on a view, or views, on a subject of interest to the whole community, that were just as valid as, but different from, his own. The barbarians whom he castigated were not invaders from elsewhere; they were Britons like him, enjoying the same right as he had to consider the issues and express a view. It is what is called democracy.

The fury and hatred aroused by the discovery that there was actually a majority that disagreed with those who thought that they alone were capable of reaching the right and proper decision – and the vitriol with which those sentiments are expressed – provides us with an insight into the mentality of many of those who simply could not believe that any view other than theirs was possible.

Bryan Gould

Indeed.

[bruce]

Too early to draw comparisons between present day Britain and 1930s Germany? They even hosted the Olympics recently.

Did Farage just paint a huge target on the British economy today? You need us more than we need you I think is the phrase he used. A challenge if ever I heard one. First thing he said was who is laughing now? Great. People not only voted on the back of lies but also so he could get personal vindication against a few Europeans that laughed at him 17 years ago. Guy is a weapons grade bellend. Lucklily I think the Europeans are aware of this

The leavers certainly spread some fanciful economic forecasting. But they were outgunned be the remainers.

Cameron and Osborne both made statements that UK pensions were at risk if the UK left the EU.

That's a flat out lie.

How does that fit into your theory?

The vast majority outright lying in economic terms came from the remain camp. They wheeled out every neoliberal institution on the face of the planet to talk gobbledegook.

What is my theory? Politicians lie. If the morons with a dislike for people from other backgrounds hadn't voted would leave have topped the polls?
We know you don't like Xenophobes. So how does it sit with you how the Britons are treating migrants on the back of this referendum? I'm more worried about the civil state of the UK now.

Heres what a guy I considered a mate just posted in FB, hes British

Depends on how many voted. If the Remain side are to be believed in is in excess of 17 million, so no the leave vote wouldn't have won.

[bruce]

It did not seem to occur to …[those who claimed it was the “equivalent of the Visigoths’ sacking of Rome”] … that the decision to leave the EU was the product of a vote in which a majority of his fellow-citizens had simply, as part of their democratic right, acted on a view, or views, on a subject of interest to the whole community, that were just as valid as, but different from, his own. The barbarians whom he castigated were not invaders from elsewhere; they were Britons like him, enjoying the same right as he had to consider the issues and express a view. It is what is called democracy.

The fury and hatred aroused by the discovery that there was actually a majority that disagreed with those who thought that they alone were capable of reaching the right and proper decision – and the vitriol with which those sentiments are expressed – provides us with an insight into the mentality of many of those who simply could not believe that any view other than theirs was possible.

Bryan Gould

Indeed.

Indeeded

[UGagain]

Too early to draw comparisons between present day Britain and 1930s Germany? They even hosted the Olympics recently.

Did Farage just paint a huge target on the British economy today? You need us more than we need you I think is the phrase he used. A challenge if ever I heard one. First thing he said was who is laughing now? Great. People not only voted on the back of lies but also so he could get personal vindication against a few Europeans that laughed at him 17 years ago. Guy is a weapons grade bellend. Lucklily I think the Europeans are aware of this

The leavers certainly spread some fanciful economic forecasting. But they were outgunned be the remainers.

Cameron and Osborne both made statements that UK pensions were at risk if the UK left the EU.

That's a flat out lie.

How does that fit into your theory?

The vast majority outright lying in economic terms came from the remain camp. They wheeled out every neoliberal institution on the face of the planet to talk gobbledegook.

I completely agree with your economics in theory. But I'd still be interested to know how you think Gove, Johnson and Farage are going to manage this transition and whether you genuinely think they have the UKs interests at heart. They are already talking about spending cuts and tax hikes (likely for the lower and middle classes) - I'm pretty sure that's not what you had in mind.

I also think you can't ignore why the majority voted, and it wasn't sovereignty. That's fine, but someone needs to put a lid on this "blame immigrants" thing ASAP because the stuff you are seeing is just a the tip of the iceberg. As I've previously mentioned, I know a number of people close to me who have copped it. It's not media spin.

I'm not interested in Gove, Johnson and Farage in the slightest. They are irrelevant personalities.

I don't profess to be able to make such cast iron assertions.

Leaving the EU is a prerequisite for getting rid of neoliberal rule. It doesn't guarantee it.

Staying in the EU guarantees neoliberal rule.

There is a task for the progressive left to take the opportunity presented.

I doubt that there are enough of them left in Labour to do the job.

Remember that Blair purged the party of labour people and put Tories in all but name in their places.

Times have changed and people are sick of losing ground.

[Stones of granite]

The leavers certainly spread some fanciful economic forecasting. But they were outgunned be the remainers.

Cameron and Osborne both made statements that UK pensions were at risk if the UK left the EU.

That's a flat out lie.

How does that fit into your theory?

The vast majority outright lying in economic terms came from the remain camp. They wheeled out every neoliberal institution on the face of the planet to talk gobbledegook.

I completely agree with your economics in theory. But I'd still be interested to know how you think Gove, Johnson and Farage are going to manage this transition and whether you genuinely think they have the UKs interests at heart. They are already talking about spending cuts and tax hikes (likely for the lower and middle classes) - I'm pretty sure that's not what you had in mind.

I also think you can't ignore why the majority voted, and it wasn't sovereignty. That's fine, but someone needs to put a lid on this "blame immigrants" thing ASAP because the stuff you are seeing is just a the tip of the iceberg. As I've previously mentioned, I know a number of people close to me who have copped it. It's not media spin.

I'm not interested in Gove, Johnson and Farage in the slightest. They are irrelevant personalities.

I don't profess to be able to make such cast iron assertions.

Leaving the EU is a prerequisite for getting rid of neoliberal rule. It doesn't guarantee it.

Staying in the EU guarantees neoliberal rule.

There is a task for the progressive left to take the opportunity presented.

How?

[Which Tyler]

UKIP doing their best to heal the post-referrendum rift int he country: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... nges-ahead

In a triumphant speech urging Ukip to take on a new role monitoring the government’s willingness to deliver full Brexit, Hamilton said: “Any attempt to backslide on what the people voted for courts, I think, the possibility of armed revolution in this country.”

[WaspInWales]

UKIP doing their best to heal the post-referrendum rift int he country: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... nges-ahead

In a triumphant speech urging Ukip to take on a new role monitoring the government’s willingness to deliver full Brexit, Hamilton said: “Any attempt to backslide on what the people voted for courts, I think, the possibility of armed revolution in this country.”

Armed?!?

Crikey, pitchforks at the ready.

[Sandydragon]

There are some clowns suggesting that Hamilton is the right leader for UKIP. Given the list of likely candidates, I think we may end up in the place where we look back at Farage and consider him to be a normal, logical human being. Perhaps that a bit much, but there could be far worse out there.

On another note, rumors in the press are that Leadsom is about to pull out of the Conservative leadership race. Following her remarks about May's lack of childbearing, she has found the backlash too much to deal with.

The question now is whether May can be crowned automatically, or whether there have to be 2 nominations presented to the membership, which might mean a reprieve for Gove as the 3rd in line.

[Banquo]

So all the fire lighters have decided they don't want to be responsible for sorting out the shyte. Nice.

[Sandydragon]

So all the fire lighters have decided they don't want to be responsible for sorting out the shyte. Nice.

Sure looks that way. Although May was my choice for the leadership from since Cameron's resignation.

[Banquo]

So all the fire lighters have decided they don't want to be responsible for sorting out the shyte. Nice.

Sure looks that way. Although May was my choice for the leadership from since Cameron's resignation.

I'd laugh if any of it was funny.