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Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 6:46 pm
by Scrumhead
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:49 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 11:49 am
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 11:02 am
Looping back to this, my thoughts on team are:
1 Iyogun
2 Oghre
3 Opoku-Fordjour
4 Batley
5 Tizard
6 Hill
7 Pepper
8 Willis
9 Porter
10 Bailey
11 Murley
12 S. Atkinson
13 Beard
14 Elliott
15 Carpenter
16 Jibilu
17 Brantingham
18 Fasogbon
19 Munga
20 Fisilau
21 McParland
22 C. Atkinson
23 Redshaw
10 looks a bit threadbare, doesn't it?
Aye. There was the age group where Smith (F), Bailey and Atkinson (C) came through together, wherein then the clever money was on Fin being the pick of the bunch, which has proven true so far. After that you had Jamie Benson and Louie Johnson, both highly rated but neither really made headway in senior rugby yet. Then you're into the Rory Taylors of the world, who are fresh out of U20s. Before Smith, Bailey and Atkinson we have Manu Vunipola, Hayden-Wood and Barton, and then one Marcus Smith. All a bit meh, maybe could be, with a very small sprinkle of stardust.
The next crop has two superb talents in it, with Ollie Davies, who is now U20 and James Linegar who is still U18.
The Smiths were probably always going to be the best in their peer groups, but it’s also worth pointing out that they also had the most game time earlier in their careers by some distance. It obviously starts with natural skill and an innate feel for the game, but getting the level of exposure they did, definitely accelerated their development.
When Atkinson first broke through with Wasps, he looked very good. Their demise and the subsequent drop off in game time with Tigers and Gloucester really put the brakes on his development. Bailey’s usually looked pretty good when he plays, he’s just never had the run of games.
Benson is still rated at Quins. I think we let Will Edwards go on the expectation he will be 3rd choice this season. I don’t know the specifics, but IIRC, I think he prioritised his studies at Cambridge (graduated last year) which slowed down his rugby career so far.
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 7:15 pm
by Banquo
Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 6:46 pm
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 12:49 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 11:49 am
10 looks a bit threadbare, doesn't it?
Aye. There was the age group where Smith (F), Bailey and Atkinson (C) came through together, wherein then the clever money was on Fin being the pick of the bunch, which has proven true so far. After that you had Jamie Benson and Louie Johnson, both highly rated but neither really made headway in senior rugby yet. Then you're into the Rory Taylors of the world, who are fresh out of U20s. Before Smith, Bailey and Atkinson we have Manu Vunipola, Hayden-Wood and Barton, and then one Marcus Smith. All a bit meh, maybe could be, with a very small sprinkle of stardust.
The next crop has two superb talents in it, with Ollie Davies, who is now U20 and James Linegar who is still U18.
The Smiths were probably always going to be the best in their peer groups, but it’s also worth pointing out that they also had the most game time earlier in their careers by some distance. It obviously starts with natural skill and an innate feel for the game, but getting the level of exposure they did, definitely accelerated their development.
When Atkinson first broke through with Wasps, he looked very good. Their demise and the subsequent drop off in game time with Tigers and Gloucester really put the brakes on his development. Bailey’s usually looked pretty good when he plays, he’s just never had the run of games.
Benson is still rated at Quins. I think we let Will Edwards go on the expectation he will be 3rd choice this season. I don’t know the specifics, but IIRC, I think he prioritised his studies at Cambridge (graduated last year) which slowed down his rugby career so far.
scuse me! Benson had nearly a season with us last year in the champ (if we hadnt been in champ, he would have been commuting to Scottish), picking up a bad knee knock in March. He is Quins travelling back reserve- we would have him back like shot. That said, not sure he is a prem 10...much better at 12 for us...but again not sure he is a 12 one step up. Top lad.
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:12 pm
by Timbo
There was a really promising u20 starting 10 who had to retire a year or so ago wasn’t there? Think he was at Irish before they went bust.
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2024 9:59 am
by Epaminondas Pules
Rory Taylor was at Irish before they died. He went off to Glaws. Had a rough time with injuries but still only 19 (for 9 more days)
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2024 10:52 am
by FKAS
Timbo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:12 pm
There was a really promising u20 starting 10 who had to retire a year or so ago wasn’t there? Think he was at Irish before they went bust.
Monty Bradbury.
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:27 am
by Epaminondas Pules
FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 10:52 am
Timbo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 10:12 pm
There was a really promising u20 starting 10 who had to retire a year or so ago wasn’t there? Think he was at Irish before they went bust.
Monty Bradbury.
Ah yeah. I'd forgotten about Bradbury. Poor lad. Horrible knee injury.
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 8:51 am
by twitchy
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2024 10:40 am
by jimKRFC
Batley, Ibitoye and Harding should all be considered for the team. They're playing so well at the moment and Fitz is becoming a very good captain.
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:08 pm
by Slater582
Premier Sports broadcasting the match apparently. Is that free to view?
jimKRFC wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 10:40 am
Batley, Ibitoye and Harding should all be considered for the team. They're playing so well at the moment and Fitz is becoming a very good captain.
Harding didn't make it but the other two did. Oghre also included.
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:10 pm
by Danno
My main frustration is all the names that should be with the senior squad
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:18 pm
by Puja
Iyogun
Jibulu
Langdon
Oghre
Heyes
Fasogbon
Sela
Batley
Hill
Pearson
Pollock
TWillis
Fisilau
Porter
McParland
Atkinson
Shillcock
Dingwall
Ojomoh
Beard
Roebuck
Ibitoye
Murley
Carpenter
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:20 pm
by Banquo
Dingers will be simultanously pleased and fed up. IMO but for injury he might have started v NZ.
Good pull through of young lads tho
and shillcock
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:20 pm
by Mikey Brown
Who are the locks? Batley and who else? WTF are we going to learn sticking Hill or Fisilau there? Sela is a prop, right?
No Seb Atkinson?
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:23 pm
by Puja
One lock, which suggests either Ewels/Coles will be dropping down from the senior squad and/or Hill is being viewed as a lock, either of which seems like a waste of time. Very surprised at no Munga, whom I thought has had a great season so far. Only one loosehead, which means AOF is dropping down and playing at 1? I still find that very weird. Might be that Steward drops down as well, given his lack of gametime with England and there only being one full-back.
Glad to see that we're not wasting A-game time on the likes of Roots or Dunn - we know what they can offer and nothing will be proved by them playing this game.
Puja
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:24 pm
by FKAS
Jamie Shillcock? Really? His form hasn't been that good so far this season. Solid and that's about it. We'd have been better off having a look at George Barton. I presume he's in with a chance of starting at 15 and taking on the kicking duties from Charlie Atkinson at 10.
Ojomoh hasn't played for Bath so far this season, Seb Atkinson organised Dan Kelly would have been preferable.
Three tightheads and one loosehead makes me think AOF is going to drop down and play loosehead for this game.
Coles and Ewels likely to be the lock partnership as well at a guess.
Feels like this squad was based on last season more then what's been happening so far in the Prem.
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:25 pm
by FKAS
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:20 pm
Dingers will be simultanously pleased and fed up. IMO but for injury he might have started v NZ.
Nah, as soon as Slade played for Chiefs the week before he had to be selected to complete Steadfast Backline's must have midfield.
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:28 pm
by Puja
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:20 pm
Who are the locks? Batley and who else? WTF are we going to learn sticking Hill or Fisilau there? Sela is a prop, right?
No Seb Atkinson?
They have said players will drop down from the main squad, although it's not like we're flush with locks there either. I'd imagine a Coles and Batley second row is likely.
Sela is another of our impending tighthead glory-days - superb technique and the build to go with it. Very early days though - he's only 19 and I think he's only had a couple of games off the bench for Bath. One for 2026 at the earliest, possibly more likely 2027-28.
I'd like to see SAtkinson looked at too, especially given Ojomoh hasn't played at all this season and has no form to be picked on. Can't argue with Dingwall and Beard though - the latter especially has been absolutely superb when I've seen him for Quins.
Puja
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:32 pm
by Epaminondas Pules
No Seb Atkinson is just piss poor!
Only one loosehead so I’d bet AOF drops down for this one.
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:34 pm
by FKAS
If players are dropping down from the first team squad for this do we thing we'll see Fin Smith at 10?
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:44 pm
by Banquo
FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:25 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:20 pm
Dingers will be simultanously pleased and fed up. IMO but for injury he might have started v NZ.
Nah, as soon as Slade played for Chiefs the week before he had to be selected to complete Steadfast Backline's must have midfield.
word is not- had Dingwall not been hurt there was a good chance he'd have started at 12, with Lawrence at 13. Slade was released to play after Dingwall hobbled out of training.
Looking forward to seeing the backrow run out tho.
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:52 pm
by fivepointer
Major disappointment is no Seb Atkinson.
On the whole this is a very good squad with some seriously talented and promising players in it.
I'm delighted Batley has at last got some recognition.
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 4:58 pm
by Mellsblue
Capt Dingers!!!!!
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 5:11 pm
by Which Tyler
Ojomoh just returning from injury is very much in Sack'n Back's style - pissed off that Seb Atkinson is in there.
Not sure Shilcock really counts in the "bridge to age-grade" category.
I'd guess AOF, Coles and FSmith to drop down to the A-game, possibly JvP as well, with Hill covering lock, possibly fully, possibly covering from 6.
My bet:
1. Opoku-Fordjour
2. Langdon
3. Fasogbon
4. Batley
5. Coles*
6. Hill**
7. Pearson
8. Willis**
09. McParland
10. FSmith*
11. Murley
12. Dingwall (c)
13. Beard
14. Roebuck
15. Carpenter
16. Oghre, 17. Iyogen, 18. Sela, 19. Fisilau, 20. Pollock
21. Porter / Van Portfliet*, 22. Ojomoh, 23. Shilcock
* dropping down from the seniors
** really ought to have been involved with the seniors
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 5:13 pm
by Banquo
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 5:11 pm
Ojomoh just returning from injury is very much in Sack'n Back's style - pissed off that Seb Atkinson is in there.
Not sure Shilcock really counts in the "bridge to age-grade" category.
I'd guess AOF, Coles and FSmith to drop down to the A-game, possibly JvP as well, with Hill covering lock, possibly fully, possibly covering from 6.
My bet:
1. Opoku-Fordjour
2. Langdon
3. Fasogbon
4. Batley
5. Coles*
6. Hill**
7. Pearson
8. Willis**
09. McParland
10. FSmith*
11. Murley
12. Dingwall (c)
13. Beard
14. Roebuck
15. Carpenter
16. Oghre, 17. Iyogen, 18. Sela, 19 Fisilau, 20. Pollock
21. Porter / Van Portfliet*, 22. Ojomoh, 23. Shilcock
* dropping down from the seniors
** really ought to have been involved with the seniors
FKAS will have your guts fer garters now JVP is fifth choice
Re: The Great Big England A Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2024 6:13 pm
by FKAS
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 5:13 pm
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 5:11 pm
Ojomoh just returning from injury is very much in Sack'n Back's style - pissed off that Seb Atkinson is in there.
Not sure Shilcock really counts in the "bridge to age-grade" category.
I'd guess AOF, Coles and FSmith to drop down to the A-game, possibly JvP as well, with Hill covering lock, possibly fully, possibly covering from 6.
My bet:
1. Opoku-Fordjour
2. Langdon
3. Fasogbon
4. Batley
5. Coles*
6. Hill**
7. Pearson
8. Willis**
09. McParland
10. FSmith*
11. Murley
12. Dingwall (c)
13. Beard
14. Roebuck
15. Carpenter
16. Oghre, 17. Iyogen, 18. Sela, 19 Fisilau, 20. Pollock
21. Porter / Van Portfliet*, 22. Ojomoh, 23. Shilcock
* dropping down from the seniors
** really ought to have been involved with the seniors
FKAS will have your guts fer garters now JVP is fifth choice
actually I'd prefer him not involved if it's not the first team. Less chance of picking up a needless injury and missing Tigers games.
I rate Porter though, would have him starting over McParland. Would have Porter over Randall personally as well but there you go.
I'd have thought Sella would be in the squad in an apprenticeship role and Heyes would start to add some experience at tighthead.