RugbyRebels

TheDasher wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 12:48 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:58 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:37 am I'm not totally sold on that being anything more than NZ targetting him because he'd been such an effective carrier so far. It's the Tuilagi/Vunipola thing again. He's got a lot to learn, sure, but he's progressed very quickly and I thought he had a pretty good engine to be honest. He's not even starting for Quins right now though - not sure if that's more about form or minutes/conditioning.

I also think his tight carrying ability is important in allowing that angry ballerina at 8 to look good.

You're right CCS is a great bench option, but I'd want a decent lock there too. I've never been a fan of having your only lock cover being a 6 who has already been running around for an hour. If you need fresh legs in the scrum/lineout it's not ideal, surely.

We don't have four really good locks. We have three really good locks and then Coles who's alright then the reds who are average. Unless we find another 6 or strong carrying option for the bench I think it's the best use of our resources. Now I was hopeful Ted Hill would have been that 6 but Stubbornly Belligerent doesn't seem to want to pick him.

Just on your point about not having four really good locks.

This is my frustration with the Isiekwe and Ewels picks yet again... Surely this is when good managers (SCW would do this, Fergie the same) pick their best and then gamble on new, interesting options rather than going for those who who haven't, aren't and won't be good enough to be 1st picks at any stage. SB would be better off picking Itoje and Martin, Coles and Chessum (as stated I'm very happy with him at 6 too, or at lock) but then a young bolter, an Arthur Clarke at Gloucester, a Ben Bamber at Sale etc etc. Why pick Ewels and Isiekwe if he knows deep down they don't challenge the starters.

That was my original point, made better than I did!

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 1:08 pm I'm at the point I've just accepted it's Tom Curry and Sam Underhill as the 7 options, regardless of club performances or fitness. Turns out well as often as not, but it will be interesting to see who can eventually push past either one.

I was curious about this perception of Coles as being a bean pole. Looked quite a sizeable player to me, so I looked him up and one of the first results is a video titled 'Alex Coles - Giraffe'.

Haha, I'm sure he loves that.

Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 1:09 pm

TheDasher wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 12:48 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 11:58 am

We don't have four really good locks. We have three really good locks and then Coles who's alright then the reds who are average. Unless we find another 6 or strong carrying option for the bench I think it's the best use of our resources. Now I was hopeful Ted Hill would have been that 6 but Stubbornly Belligerent doesn't seem to want to pick him.

Just on your point about not having four really good locks.

This is my frustration with the Isiekwe and Ewels picks yet again... Surely this is when good managers (SCW would do this, Fergie the same) pick their best and then gamble on new, interesting options rather than going for those who who haven't, aren't and won't be good enough to be 1st picks at any stage. SB would be better off picking Itoje and Martin, Coles and Chessum (as stated I'm very happy with him at 6 too, or at lock) but then a young bolter, an Arthur Clarke at Gloucester, a Ben Bamber at Sale etc etc. Why pick Ewels and Isiekwe if he knows deep down they don't challenge the starters.

That was my original point, made better than I did!

I don't know about that Banquo but thanks.

I like the look of Clarke, absolutely love Batley (what a player), loved him last season too, not just jumping on the hype train with him, and surely Bamber needs looking at. Anyway, not happening!

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 1:08 pm I'm at the point I've just accepted it's Tom Curry and Sam Underhill as the 7 options, regardless of club performances or fitness. Turns out well as often as not, but it will be interesting to see who can eventually push past either one.

I know he hasn't quite hit the heights he can but it's where my hope in Pearson stems from, he can do all the 7 stuff but can carry like a train too which Underhill and Curry can't, or not to the same extent. Curry and Underhill fine players no doubt. Not much better than an Underhill dump tackle let's be honest. Not a dump tackle but his hit on Aki earlier this year was such a wonderful thing.

All Rugby has Coles as 6ft9 and 18st 5lbs. Don't know how accurate that is but isn't massive and you'd have thought towards the lighter end of lock size particularly with that height (Itoje has tended to be quite light and pack a physical punch though so weight isn't everything). Weight can also fluctuate by several kilos over the course of a season as well.

https://all.rugby/player/alex-coles

I agree with The Dasher's point about this selection being overly conservative. Would have been good to see some of the younger lads given an opportunity. It doesn't feel like a particularly long term selection or a squad that's going to see us to the next world cup.

I wonder if the home nations head coaches are feeling the pressure a bit. Borthwick's selections are dull and pragmatic, Faz Snr over in Ireland has gone similar and is also including some injured older heads instead of promoting some more talent. Gats has reigned in some of the bat shit decisions and has gone for some experience and logic, welcoming back the experienced Tomos Williams and Gareth Anscombe.

Presumably, Jonny is still suspended?? I know he is unpopular on here but he's better than Ewels, Isiekwe and Coles, IMO. That aside, Itoje, Martin, Chessum + a young prospect seems a reasonable way forward.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:11 pm Presumably, Jonny is still suspended?? I know he is unpopular on here but he's better than Ewels, Isiekwe and Coles, IMO. That aside, Itoje, Martin, Chessum + a young prospect seems a reasonable way forward.

Was reading about him this morning - Sale still can't pick him, waiting for next moves from the Police I believe (law enforcement, not band).

I am absolutely with you - Jonny Hill is such a good player and I'd have him in my squad too - he absolutely scuppered himself in the eyes of fans with all the stupid poor discipline and through becoming seen as a penalty machine and a liability. Cut that out and he's formidable... massive, carries well, good line-out forward, great stamina, scrummager etc. Shot himself in the foot too many times. Totally agree with you though, better than Ewels and Isiekwe all day long.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:17 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:11 pm Presumably, Jonny is still suspended?? I know he is unpopular on here but he's better than Ewels, Isiekwe and Coles, IMO. That aside, Itoje, Martin, Chessum + a young prospect seems a reasonable way forward.

Was reading about him this morning - Sale still can't pick him, waiting for next moves from the Police I believe (law enforcement, not band).

I am absolutely with you - Jonny Hill is such a good player and I'd have him in my squad too - he absolutely scuppered himself in the eyes of fans with all the stupid poor discipline and through becoming seen as a penalty machine and a liability. Cut that out and he's formidable... massive, carries well, good line-out forward, great stamina, scrummager etc. Shot himself in the foot too many times. Totally agree with you though, better than Ewels and Isiekwe all day long.

Yeah he really looked to have turned a corner in terms of impact and work-rate, then a series of the old brain-dead penalties and a run of injuries has seen him disappear from these conversations entirely.

Quite honestly, if the answer is "Charlie Ewels or Jonny Hill" - then I'd prefer to look for a different question.

Frankly, I think Ewels is underrated as a player - he's not in the class of the Chessum/Itoje/Martin trio, but he's kicked on again since the horrible injury and trip to SA. He's been in very decent form for Bath as well. I think he suffers on here from having been picked so often when he wasn't in form.

Plus from being a phenomenal dumbass and getting sent off twice in seven minutes, which is the reason *I* wouldn't pick him, but as a player he's a solid fourth choice.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:53 pm Frankly, I think Ewels is underrated as a player - he's not in the class of the Chessum/Itoje/Martin trio, but he's kicked on again since the horrible injury and trip to SA. He's been in very decent form for Bath as well. I think he suffers on here from having been picked so often when he wasn't in form.

Plus from being a phenomenal dumbass and getting sent off twice in seven minutes, which is the reason *I* wouldn't pick him, but as a player he's a solid fourth choice.

Puja

He's the type of player I wouldn't mind as a fourth choice in the squad if the fifth choice was a youngster there in a bit of an apprenticeship role. Ewels is a leader and and intelligent rugby player (when playing for Bath), it all seems to go a bit wrong for him at international level but as someone in camp there to mentor, act as a sounding board and keep training intensity up he's not a bad option.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:17 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:11 pm Presumably, Jonny is still suspended?? I know he is unpopular on here but he's better than Ewels, Isiekwe and Coles, IMO. That aside, Itoje, Martin, Chessum + a young prospect seems a reasonable way forward.

Was reading about him this morning - Sale still can't pick him, waiting for next moves from the Police I believe (law enforcement, not band).

I am absolutely with you - Jonny Hill is such a good player and I'd have him in my squad too - he absolutely scuppered himself in the eyes of fans with all the stupid poor discipline and through becoming seen as a penalty machine and a liability. Cut that out and he's formidable... massive, carries well, good line-out forward, great stamina, scrummager etc. Shot himself in the foot too many times. Totally agree with you though, better than Ewels and Isiekwe all day long.

I wonder if Montpellier have checked on his suitability for a move to them?

francoisfou wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 3:42 pmI wonder if Montpellier have checked on his suitability for a move to them?

Presumably waiting on the result of the court case (if it gets that far).
Not Guilty - stays at Sale
Guilty - moves to Monty

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:43 pm Quite honestly, if the answer is "Charlie Ewels or Jonny Hill" - then I'd prefer to look for a different question.

I think the view seems to be that Hill is a thug or an idiot or both - and perhaps he's behaved like both. If that could all stop, I think he's a pretty fine second-row forward actually, he had spells of being really highly impressive for Exeter and I've seen him play superbly for Sale too. Personally I'd say in terms of natural talent he's well above Ewels as an athlete and all-rounder. He's just buggered it all up (more than) a bit. And he's only just turned 30.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 1:20 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 1:08 pm I'm at the point I've just accepted it's Tom Curry and Sam Underhill as the 7 options, regardless of club performances or fitness. Turns out well as often as not, but it will be interesting to see who can eventually push past either one.

I know he hasn't quite hit the heights he can but it's where my hope in Pearson stems from, he can do all the 7 stuff but can carry like a train too which Underhill and Curry can't, or not to the same extent. Curry and Underhill fine players no doubt. Not much better than an Underhill dump tackle let's be honest. Not a dump tackle but his hit on Aki earlier this year was such a wonderful thing.

Pollock will be a force at his rate of progress/

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:03 pm
Borthwick's selections are dull and pragmatic,

agreed,( tho Coles aint 6ft 9in, and doubt he's as light as that but as before, he is a rangy kind of lock who needs pairing with an old skool tighthead lock; he has put on a lot of timber in the last 18 months)

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:53 pm Frankly, I think Ewels is underrated as a player - he's not in the class of the Chessum/Itoje/Martin trio, but he's kicked on again since the horrible injury and trip to SA. He's been in very decent form for Bath as well. I think he suffers on here from having been picked so often when he wasn't in form.

Plus from being a phenomenal dumbass and getting sent off twice in seven minutes, which is the reason *I* wouldn't pick him, but as a player he's a solid fourth choice.

Puja

solid, kinda.. He suffers on here because he's a bang average intl. He's obviously not underrated by anyone who matters, but why have solid to back up very good x3 , when prospects with more talent are about?

TheDasher wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:17 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 2:11 pm Presumably, Jonny is still suspended?? I know he is unpopular on here but he's better than Ewels, Isiekwe and Coles, IMO. That aside, Itoje, Martin, Chessum + a young prospect seems a reasonable way forward.

Was reading about him this morning - Sale still can't pick him, waiting for next moves from the Police I believe (law enforcement, not band).

I am absolutely with you - Jonny Hill is such a good player and I'd have him in my squad too - he absolutely scuppered himself in the eyes of fans with all the stupid poor discipline and through becoming seen as a penalty machine and a liability. Cut that out and he's formidable... massive, carries well, good line-out forward, great stamina, scrummager etc. Shot himself in the foot too many times. Totally agree with you though, better than Ewels and Isiekwe all day long.

totally agree, but the former point about dimness is germane. See Garath Archer.

I was waiting for that massive ex american football guy that charlie morgan was hyping up.

That was not 10m, not even close

Saints running riot.

Adam_P wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 7:54 pm That was not 10m, not even close

It rarely is.

Bristol have pulled this back well after being in danger of being blown away early doors.

Yep some good stuff from bris.

Brilliant.