RugbyRebels

I suppose that means lee jones benches or starts which is good as he is defensively ol. It can at least side step without stopping.

Still think Scott is a disgraceful omission.

We need to accept the realities of NH rugby today - fundamentally based around huge physicality.

We are deliberately conditioning our players to be lean, fast and aerobically fit (I refuse to accept that the Welsh and Irish have some widespread genetic advantage - they either condition their players differently, or juice better, at a younger age). Look at Ryan Wilson - his physique is astonishing for a full-time pro back row forward. But it’s a power game and we consistently lose the collisions. We keep talking about a big ball carrier as if one huge No 8 will make the difference. But our whole team is massively underpowered. We’ll compete sometimes when the attitude is spot on, accuracy is high and Hoggy creates some magic. Over the piece though, we’ll get done more often than not.

Ok for remaining games I think we beat France, lose to England , show up well against Ireland but struggle to deal with their pack and then beat Italy

ARM wrote:We need to accept the realities of NH rugby today - fundamentally based around huge physicality.

We are deliberately conditioning our players to be lean, fast and aerobically fit (I refuse to accept that the Welsh and Irish have some widespread genetic advantage - they either condition their players differently, or juice better, at a younger age). Look at Ryan Wilson - his physique is astonishing for a full-time pro back row forward. But it’s a power game and we consistently lose the collisions. We keep talking about a big ball carrier as if one huge No 8 will make the difference. But our whole team is massively underpowered. We’ll compete sometimes when the attitude is spot on, accuracy is high and Hoggy creates some magic. Over the piece though, we’ll get done more often than not.

Yeah, but we get to beat Australia in meaningless games.

ARM wrote:We need to accept the realities of NH rugby today - fundamentally based around huge physicality. .

I dont actually think that will always be the case, World Rugby through law changes and enforcement through safety are moving the game away from 22 stone monsters, i think by the next world cup (18 months away) that the weight of most NH teams will be smaller

It also doesnt stack up that NZ, Australia are consistently near the top of the rankings.

Team for France

Reid
McInally
Bergan
J gray
Gilchrist
Barclay (Pack leader)
Watson
Denton - (We need some go forward player)

Laidlaw (captain)
Russel
L Jones
Dunbar
H Jones
Seymore
Hogg

Bhatti
Lawson/
Welsh - did he even carry on Sat
BBT
Wilson although L Hamilton would also be cool
Price
Horne
Harries - I know he was crap but i kinda feel that he needs at least a chance in a team not imploding to show his class

Important thing for me is mindset change, its not coincidence that the twice we have imploded we have not had Laidlaw, Price is a better scrum half but Laidlaw knows how to stop us getting fucked over.

Laidlaw comes on as captain as Barclay didnt lay down the law to 9/10 when the shit was hitting hte fan, he looked like a passenger and even if he did say toRussel and Price to calm the heed they didnt do it so he loses the captaincy as he isnt being authoritive

I also want us to play fast for the firt 60 and tire out the french pack and then bring on the faster game, but we only do that if we do the right stuff for the first 60

Why is Berghan in your team, Java? Aren't you an Embra fan? You should know full well how useless he is. Welsh provided much needed stability at scrum time when we are absolutely depleted in the front row. Zander is mistaken to focus on his carrying & tackling at the expense of his scrummaging IMO. If both were bit Fagerson would be an impact player in the last 30 mins with Welsh starting.

Not quite sure how you can bemoan a lack of carrying when Price & Russell showed very little interest in allowing that to happen. Welsh is one of the first names on the team sheet for me. Like the rest of the boys that played - he can perform so much better. However... Unlike Berghan he can actually provide some solidity at scrum time.

Maitland in for McGuigan as well.

whatisthejava wrote:

ARM wrote:We need to accept the realities of NH rugby today - fundamentally based around huge physicality. .

I dont actually think that will always be the case, World Rugby through law changes and enforcement through safety are moving the game away from 22 stone monsters, i think by the next world cup (18 months away) that the weight of most NH teams will be smaller

It also doesnt stack up that NZ, Australia are consistently near the top of the rankings.

You can’t compare to NZ - the accuracy and decision making in their play and their mental strength is at a different level. Our game plan can work if tempo and accuracy levels are kept up but too often skill levels let us down. Oir youngsters play park rugby and then if they’re deemed good enough in a shallow talent pool are thrown into the knockabout fun of the Pro14. Big step up from there.

There is also nuance in the difference between size and physicality - I have rarely seen a NZ team overpowered.

Anyway we’re not totally doomed of course. The performance was dispiriting but I’ve seen enough from Scotland and Glasgow to know that we do have enough talent to have good days when the error count is low. Hopefully one on Sunday.

ARM wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:

ARM wrote:We need to accept the realities of NH rugby today - fundamentally based around huge physicality. .

I dont actually think that will always be the case, World Rugby through law changes and enforcement through safety are moving the game away from 22 stone monsters, i think by the next world cup (18 months away) that the weight of most NH teams will be smaller

It also doesnt stack up that NZ, Australia are consistently near the top of the rankings.

You can’t compare to NZ - the accuracy and decision making in their play and their mental strength is at a different level. Our game plan can work if tempo and accuracy levels are kept up but too often skill levels let us down. Oir youngsters play park rugby and then if they’re deemed good enough in a shallow talent pool are thrown into the knockabout fun of the Pro14. Big step up from there.

There is also nuance in the difference between size and physicality - I have rarely seen a NZ team overpowered.

Anyway we’re not totally doomed of course. The performance was dispiriting but I’ve seen enough from Scotland and Glasgow to know that we do have enough talent to have good days when the error count is low. Hopefully one on Sunday.

Any weakness is addressed pretty swiftly by the NZ coaching teams. If they have a howler in one respect in one match you can be sure it will have been stomped out and ironed out by the next game.

Remember our awful restarts time and time again? That'd have been stamped out after the first match if it were NZ. Finn's missed touch finders as well. The list can go on.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Why is Berghan in your team

Maitland in for McGuigan as well.

Berghan carries the ball in the loose, we need more forwards willing to carry rather than just Watson, McInally and Gray, i know we are going to struggle in the loose but both Reid and Welsh were blowing in that game

Id also rather have a stable scrum in the last 20 incase we are under pressure not to concede as has happened against the french lost of times

ARM wrote: You can’t compare to NZ - the accuracy and decision making in their play and their mental strength is at a different level. Our game plan can work if tempo and accuracy levels are kept up but too often skill levels let us down. Oir youngsters play park rugby and then if they’re deemed good enough in a shallow talent pool are thrown into the knockabout fun of the Pro14. Big step up from there.
.

Most of our team has grown up elsewhere, our players are some of the most skillful around , i think we need guys willing to inject some conflict when its going shit and tell the half backs to stop passing the fucking ball wide every chance they get

Jesus. Bergman in for his carrying? Greig kind of covered it but I’d always take the scrum.

It seemed like there were errors in preparation, tactics and mindset all over the park on Saturday. But I think Laidlaw in as captain would be a big step backwards. We need to adapt the new game we’re trying to play, not go back to the tried and tested, which wasn’t good enough anyway.

There should be massive pressure on both Price and Barclay, but I think we need to see how both respond to that.

If the team (and those two in particular) can’t respond and adapt this weekend then we’re looking at a different picture.

When’s the team named?

Mikey Brown wrote:Jesus. Bergman in for his carrying? Greig kind of covered it but I’d always take the scrum.

It seemed like there were errors in preparation, tactics and mindset all over the park on Saturday. But I think Laidlaw in as captain would be a big step backwards. We need to adapt the new game we’re trying to play, not go back to the tried and tested, which wasn’t good enough anyway.

There should be massive pressure on both Price and Barclay, but I think we need to see how both respond to that.

If the team (and those two in particular) can’t respond and adapt this weekend then we’re looking at a different picture.

Someone carries the can, either Price or Barclay

Dont really care which but i want to see Toonie make a statement that a performance like that has consequences for the leaders

My Friend has an extra ticket for Sunday's game. £75 face value(west wing).

PM me if interested.

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I'll give you 3 buttons, a toy sodger and 2 freddos

In fact scratch that. They're not worth the freddos.

OptimisticJock wrote:I'll give you 3 buttons, a toy sodger and 2 freddos

Will see if he is willing to negotiate

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All the name changes in the world wont make a difference if the guys havent got their heads in the game. Take one of our better players on Sat, Gray, and his break deep into their 22 early in the game. After he got the ball, and with no defenders immediately near him, he spent the first second or so looking around for someone to give it on to. You could almost see the wheels turning "Fuck what do I do? Where am I? Should I run forward? Yeah I'll try that. Hang on....". And he was one of the better players. If that had been a Welsh lock, or Gray in the autumn, he'd have been head down and straining for the line without a moments hesitation, not pissing about wondering what to do.

I wouldnt necessarily complain if Toonie didnt make any changes... if the same guys come out on Sunday with their heads straight they'll give anyone a decent game, but if they or anyone else come out not knowing what to do when they get the ball they'll get man-shamed again.

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I think it starts at the top. Townsend got it spectacularly wrong too.

Having the captain's run at murrayfield and travelling down of Friday was daft.

Moving one of the better players out of position and by that fact hurting your only top class players attacking game was daft.

Laidlaw wasn't even that good when he came on, and hasn't been that good for a while.

Donny osmond wrote:All the name changes in the world wont make a difference if the guys havent got their heads in the game.

This is a huge point. Do the SRU employ a sports psychologist?

I wrote a load of shit out that disappeared but basically yes to the couple of posts above.

Price could learn a lot from Laidlaw, but it goes the other way too. Laidlaw playing at half a mile an hour is not the key to this side clicking, despite the vital level of control he showed on Saturday. On any other day we’d be getting annoyed that he was doing it so, so slowly.

Mikey Brown wrote:I wrote a load of shit out that disappeared but basically yes to the couple of posts above.

Price could learn a lot from Laidlaw, but it goes the other way too. Laidlaw playing at half a mile an hour is not the key to this side clicking, despite the vital level of control he showed on Saturday. On any other day we’d be getting annoyed that he was doing it so, so slowly.

Someone somewhere hit the nail on the head with the team needing to recognise when to go all out. Its great Toony wanting them to be the fastest team in the world but you can't play like that for 80 minutes.

A timely article on a sports psychologist being used in the scotland camp...

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... -1-4684625