RugbyRebels

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:Good source- though I'm very dubious- has....if so, not a big fan of it at all.

1- Wyn Jones
2- LCD
3- Furlong
4- Itoje
5- Alun Wyn
6- Lawes
7- Curry
8- Conan
9- Price
10- Biggar
11- Duhan VDM
12- Henshaw
13- Daly
14- Watson
15- Hogg

I mean... that could be a lot, lot worse? No Murray/Farrell dream team at 9/10 to render the rest of the backs pointless (with no Aki at 12 to finish the job) and, while I'm no fan of Lawes at 6, at least he'd have Curry and Conan to provide the mobility and do all the work for him.

I don't think it's real, mostly because I don't see a world in which Gatland doesn't play Adams, but if you offered me that over what I fear Gatland might potentially unleash, I'd probably take it.

Puja

You were worried at the selection that one of the most successful lions coaches of all time might make. A bit over the top don’t you think?

If you think back to the first test four years ago with Farrell at 10 and POM captaining from the blindside.....

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote: 6:2 made madder by having to effin Farrell

Credit where credit is due, unlike Spiffy, Gatland has gone 6:2 rather than 6:1 and selected* Murray as his replacement 9.
One injury in the back three and.... I can’t bring myself to type out the permutations.

*originally autocorrected to ‘dejected’ in an AI Freudian slip.

Daly goes to back 3 and faz to centre. still not great

Kick a man whilst he’s down why don’t you. Not great is overly optimistic.

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Credit where credit is due, unlike Spiffy, Gatland has gone 6:2 rather than 6:1 and selected* Murray as his replacement 9.
One injury in the back three and.... I can’t bring myself to type out the permutations.

*originally autocorrected to ‘dejected’ in an AI Freudian slip.

Daly goes to back 3 and faz to centre. still not great

Kick a man whilst he’s down why don’t you. Not great is overly optimistic.

yeah, we had that a lot

Banquo wrote:

morepork wrote:would Smith from the bench be any worse than Farrell has been?

prob not at 10, but faz at least has played12/13 in the event of outside back injury.

There's a reasonable argument that a 6:2 should have Adams/Williams/Harris in the 23 shirt. Okay, so Hogg having to move to 10 if Biggar gets crocked wouldn't be great, but it's better than Farrell at 12/13 on current form and there's a much greater chance of that happening given that's apparently our answer to any one of 5 players going down.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

morepork wrote:would Smith from the bench be any worse than Farrell has been?

prob not at 10, but faz at least has played12/13 in the event of outside back injury.

There's a reasonable argument that a 6:2 should have Adams/Williams/Harris in the 23 shirt. Okay, so Hogg having to move to 10 if Biggar gets crocked wouldn't be great, but it's better than Farrell at 12/13 on current form and there's a much greater chance of that happening given that's apparently our answer to any one of 5 players going down.

Puja

not sure i agree, much as i dont want faz there. Daly can play back three. Run through centre or wing/fb injury scenarios with your picks and it gets messy.

6:2 bad

Gatland has done this just so he can move Watson to 15 and ruin our best ‘in’ joke on the EMB.

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: prob not at 10, but faz at least has played12/13 in the event of outside back injury.

There's a reasonable argument that a 6:2 should have Adams/Williams/Harris in the 23 shirt. Okay, so Hogg having to move to 10 if Biggar gets crocked wouldn't be great, but it's better than Farrell at 12/13 on current form and there's a much greater chance of that happening given that's apparently our answer to any one of 5 players going down.

Puja

not sure i agree, much as i dont want faz there. Daly can play back three. Run through centre or wing/fb injury scenarios with your picks and it gets messy.

6:2 bad

In retrospect, you're right. It works with Harris - he covers 12 and 13, Daly covers the back 3 and Hogg could do 10, but that's hardly a more inspiring bench option than Farrell.

Puja

Mellsblue wrote:Gatland has done this just so he can move Watson to 15 and ruin our best ‘in’ joke on the EMB.

I think the quote marks want to be around "best"

Puja

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:
There's a reasonable argument that a 6:2 should have Adams/Williams/Harris in the 23 shirt. Okay, so Hogg having to move to 10 if Biggar gets crocked wouldn't be great, but it's better than Farrell at 12/13 on current form and there's a much greater chance of that happening given that's apparently our answer to any one of 5 players going down.

Puja

not sure i agree, much as i dont want faz there. Daly can play back three. Run through centre or wing/fb injury scenarios with your picks and it gets messy.

6:2 bad

In retrospect, you're right. It works with Harris - he covers 12 and 13, Daly covers the back 3 and Hogg could do 10, but that's hardly a more inspiring bench option than Farrell.

Puja

On present form (and a bit of past) any option is more inspiring than Farrell. I can't remember a performance where he bossed the game or even played very well.

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:
There's a reasonable argument that a 6:2 should have Adams/Williams/Harris in the 23 shirt. Okay, so Hogg having to move to 10 if Biggar gets crocked wouldn't be great, but it's better than Farrell at 12/13 on current form and there's a much greater chance of that happening given that's apparently our answer to any one of 5 players going down.

Puja

not sure i agree, much as i dont want faz there. Daly can play back three. Run through centre or wing/fb injury scenarios with your picks and it gets messy.

6:2 bad

In retrospect, you're right. It works with Harris - he covers 12 and 13, Daly covers the back 3 and Hogg could do 10, but that's hardly a more inspiring bench option than Farrell.

Puja

Even with Harris you’d have a load of changes for one injury at 10 or back three, and no 12 if Henshaw is crocked.

Spiffy wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: not sure i agree, much as i dont want faz there. Daly can play back three. Run through centre or wing/fb injury scenarios with your picks and it gets messy.

6:2 bad

In retrospect, you're right. It works with Harris - he covers 12 and 13, Daly covers the back 3 and Hogg could do 10, but that's hardly a more inspiring bench option than Farrell.

Puja

On present form (and a bit of past) any option is more inspiring than Farrell. I can't remember a performance where he bossed the game or even played very well.

Inspiring maybe; practical, no. I hate 6:2

It is now official

Lions team to face South Africa:

Hogg; Watson, Daly, Henshaw, Van Der Merwe; Biggar, Price; W Jones, Cowan-Dickie, Furlong, Itoje, AW Jones (capt), Lawes, Curry, Conan.

Replacements: Owens, Sutherland, Sinckler, Beirne, H Watson, Murray, Farrell, L Williams.

I wouldn't pick Lawes at 6 for Saints, let alone Eng, before even considering the Lions. I would have gone Henshaw Harris at 12/13 and Beirne in at 6. Adams instead of VDM. AWJ is a small gamble I think still....

Gloskarlos wrote:It is now official

Lions team to face South Africa:

Hogg; Watson, Daly, Henshaw, Van Der Merwe; Biggar, Price; W Jones, Cowan-Dickie, Furlong, Itoje, AW Jones (capt), Lawes, Curry, Conan.

Replacements: Owens, Sutherland, Sinckler, Beirne, H Watson, Murray, Farrell, L Williams.

I wouldn't pick Lawes at 6 for Saints, let alone Eng, before even considering the Lions. I would have gone Henshaw Harris at 12/13 and Beirne in at 6. Adams instead of VDM. AWJ is a small gamble I think still....

5/3 split is good at least… Here's hoping we don't get Murray, Biggar, Farrell at 9/10/12 though!

Let's hope Lawes has one of those games where he plays out of his skin (normally done in the second row, but y'know) and VdM doesn't shit the bed defensively…

Far happier having seen the bench. I wonder if SA’s 5:3 caused the Lions to change their plans after the leaker, erm, leaked.

I'm quite underwhelmed by this team, I'm not sure what more Hamish Watson could have done or Adams or Beirne and I would have Faletau over Conan every day of the week.

Yeah I feel for every powerful run I’ve seen there’s been a moment of him shooting out the line or getting caught flat-footed. I’m a fan but really hadn’t considered for a moment he would be taking Adams’ spot. You’d have to assume we actually have some plan to really use him in attack rather than as a very clumsy kick-chaser.

That bench is a whole lot better with 5:3, feel for Henderson if he really was pencilled in but it is at least more balanced now. I had the same thought RE the leak. I assume they’d already seen the SA team at that point though anyway?

Also very interested how the carrying duties are divided. Faletau for me was always starting unless him form consistently dropped to Owen Farrell levels. I quite like Conan but hadn’t seen much to make me think he’d take a starting spot.

Reading and listening to what Gats has stated, I think we may well see the vast majority of the squad used over these three tests. Most have done well enough to be considered, only Farrell really hasn't covered himself in glory from what I have seen, so I expect a good amount of rotation for test #2

Numbers wrote:I'm quite underwhelmed by this team, I'm not sure what more Hamish Watson could have done or Adams or Beirne and I would have Faletau over Conan every day of the week.

Yep, we’re all one team bla bla bla but England having double the players of anyone else in the starting XV does seem strange.

Yeah, lots of tight calls. Some that I disagree with but the only one I don't get the logic for is Lawes. Beirne offers the same but better.

Quite a fun team though.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Numbers wrote:I'm quite underwhelmed by this team, I'm not sure what more Hamish Watson could have done or Adams or Beirne and I would have Faletau over Conan every day of the week.

Yep, we’re all one team bla bla bla but England having double the players of anyone else in the starting XV does seem strange.

And... We're off!

Is it neutral refs?

LCD is gonna get done for one of his daisy cutters at some point.

Numbers wrote:I'm quite underwhelmed by this team, I'm not sure what more Hamish Watson could have done or Adams or Beirne and I would have Faletau over Conan every day of the week.

Sometimes with the Lions some players get the spot because no one has really excelled or had little competition (Conan in this side) and sometime excellent players miss out.

Curry and Watson are both excellent. Curry is a bit more of a harder hitter in the tackle and that may have swayed it.

Adams has scored tries for fun, but then again so has VdM and he has beaten 30 defenders in 37 carries averaging 12m per carry. I like Adams and would have picked him but sometimes players can't do anymore and it still not be enough.

If you allow a bit of national bias for a second I am thrilled Hogg will get a test cap. I feel like a player of his quality deserves it even though I know there is no room for sentimentality on tour.

I think MacBryde and Gatland have copped out a little to be honest. Watson isn't an ideal fit for the bench but it feels like they have though "we can't leave him out completely".

Mikey Brown wrote:

Numbers wrote:I'm quite underwhelmed by this team, I'm not sure what more Hamish Watson could have done or Adams or Beirne and I would have Faletau over Conan every day of the week.

Yep, we’re all one team bla bla bla but England having double the players of anyone else in the starting XV does seem strange.

The one saving grace is that Farrell isn't starting, I'm pleased to see Daly get a chance, let's hope his defence is up to it, ditto VDM and Hogg, I assume Lawes must have been very good in training to oust Beirne, I'll wait and see how they perform before I criticise the selection as that's one thing Gatland is normally very good at.

The forwards on the bench look like they'll make a good impact, not sure about Murray or Farrell as impact players tho but as Gareth Davies has looked poor on tour I suppose Murray would be the only option, I would have liked to have seen Smith on the bench but I suppose if Biggar took an early knock it would be a baptism of fire to expect him to run the game hence Farrell which also then accomodates Williams as Farrell covers the centres.

Big D wrote:If you allow a bit of national bias for a second I am thrilled Hogg will get a test cap. I feel like a player of his quality deserves it even though I know there is no room for sentimentality on tour.

I think MacBryde and Gatland have copped out a little to be honest. Watson isn't an ideal fit for the bench but it feels like they have though "we can't leave him out completely".

I actually wondered whether Watson's impact off the bench was one of the reasons he isn't starting. I remember a couple of games for Scotland where he has come on and bounced people for fun.