Snap General Election called

[Sandydragon]

I'm not claiming there's any conspiracy. This is a question of the ethics and corporate leadership of the company that will be looking after our private data. The BMA is against it. And as David Davis (of all people) pointed out, even if Palantir behaved properly, its reputation would lower the public's trust in the scheme, which might bring about its failure due to too many opt-outs.

Unless Accenture's role specifically includes the task of monitoring Panantir's operations for unethical activity its very unlikely they would be able to pick it up.

You would need access to the DPIA and contract to be sure of that.

[Son of Mathonwy]

First paragraph, absolutely agree, all fair points.

2nd para, not sure about that, you don't have to monitor for unethical activities to see them happening. And when those activities relate to data protection and all the focus that will come from your first point, I'd say Accenture would (should) be being more than vigilant given the risk to their reputation from anything untoward happening.

Having two firms involved will help - just the presence of the other will make them more likely to behave properly. But the devil's in the detail here and if Palantir has any access to unencrypted data (or the keys to it) then it would be difficult for anyone to prevent them from making copies. It also obviously depends on what the role of each firm is - eg is Accenture really going to be involved in the day-to-day running of this? I imagine they'll be more involved on the spec'ing and design side.

[Sandydragon]

First paragraph, absolutely agree, all fair points.

2nd para, not sure about that, you don't have to monitor for unethical activities to see them happening. And when those activities relate to data protection and all the focus that will come from your first point, I'd say Accenture would (should) be being more than vigilant given the risk to their reputation from anything untoward happening.

Having two firms involved will help - just the presence of the other will make them more likely to behave properly. But the devil's in the detail here and if Palantir has any access to unencrypted data (or the keys to it) then it would be difficult for anyone to prevent them from making copies. It also obviously depends on what the role of each firm is - eg is Accenture really going to be involved in the day-to-day running of this? I imagine they'll be more involved on the spec'ing and design side.

I would point out here that third party assurance should be taking account of that risk and mitigating it. But government is crap at that on the whole. Any movement of personal data outside of the eu would have to have been considered in a DPIA so one hopes that the commercial and data teams get the contract right on where the data would reside and what format it would be in.

[Donny osmond]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Palantir provide the software to knit together and manage multiple databases. Just as they did with the Covid vaccination programme, with huge effectiveness. They do *not* get to 'steal', 'control' or even *look at* your personal medical data.</p>— Robert Colvile (@rcolvile) <a href=" 24, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Sandydragon]

Depressing but not surprising. Government doesn’t have a great track record with IT so I do understand the concerns but that’s just ill informed crap.

[Donny osmond]

Yeah, but the trouble is orgs like GLP, who should be holding govt to account, have a habit of falling foul of the same tendency to spin their way into flat out falsehoods. And thus promoting things like opt-outs which will only harm medical research, rather than effectively protect people's data.

[Son of Mathonwy]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Palantir provide the software to knit together and manage multiple databases. Just as they did with the Covid vaccination programme, with huge effectiveness. They do *not* get to 'steal', 'control' or even *look at* your personal medical data.</p>— Robert Colvile (@rcolvile) <a href=

The director of the Centre for Policy Studies says that, so it simply must be true.

I hope Palantir won't be in a position to steal our data but I'd need to see some good evidence for that, not the word of an obscurely funded right wing thinktank.

[Donny osmond]

Are you just being cynical or do you have a concrete reason to preemptively find them guilty of stealing data?

[Stom]

Are you just being cynical or do you have a concrete reason to preemptively find them guilty of stealing data?

Their connections with Cambridge Analytica, their previous actions working in the US, and the attitude of its founder and chairman are three places to begin.

Also, the fact this contract is given to an American company, where privacy laws are very different, over a British company, who would have to adhere to stricter standards, is concerning.

[Sandydragon]

Are you just being cynical or do you have a concrete reason to preemptively find them guilty of stealing data?

Their connections with Cambridge Analytica, their previous actions working in the US, and the attitude of its founder and chairman are three places to begin.

Also, the fact this contract is given to an American company, where privacy laws are very different, over a British company, who would have to adhere to stricter standards, is concerning.

Depends where the data is stored. And the Privacy Shield gives far greater commonality with EU GDPR than the previous equivalent if the data is stored in the US. But, at least one online source suggests that Palatir doesn't have access to the data.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Are you just being cynical or do you have a concrete reason to preemptively find them guilty of stealing data?

As Stom says (and as I've already said) there are several reasons to be concerned. This isn't preemptively finding them guilty (that's a straw man argument), this is an attempt to prevent a problem before it happens. What I wouldn't want is to find them guilty of stealing our data after the event, because then it would be too late.

Robert Colvile is one of the brains behind Trussonomics. Why would I find him remotely convincing when he speaks in defence of Palantir, or any topic for that matter?

[Mellsblue]

Robert Colvile is one of the brains behind Trussonomics. Why would I find him remotely convincing when he speaks in defence of Palantir, or any topic for that matter?

Not technically true. A number of his staff went to work in govt. and Truss used some of the policies from his think tank. Examples are the increase in child care allowance and onshore wind farms the bastard. The majority of the others are either still in place or been implemented by Sunak and yet the economy still stands. All he did was tweet which individual policies the Truss govt implemented and he’s now been accused of being one of the brains, with the usual dark money funded Tufton Street stuff tacked on for the lols.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Robert Colvile is one of the brains behind Trussonomics. Why would I find him remotely convincing when he speaks in defence of Palantir, or any topic for that matter?

Not technically true. A number of his staff went to work in govt. and Truss used some of the policies from his think tank. Examples are the increase in child care allowance and onshore wind farms the bastard. The majority of the others are either still in place or been implemented by Sunak and yet the economy still stands. All he did was tweet which individual policies the Truss govt implemented and he’s now been accused of being one of the brains, with the usual dark money funded Tufton Street stuff tacked on for the lols.

You may not agree with my phrasing but based on your understanding he is one of the thinkers behind Truss's policies, and he was proud of this.

If his right wing think tank/pressure group was willing to reveal the source of their funding then there would be no talk of dark money. Until it does, it's right to point out that we have no idea whose views it is being paid to project.

[cashead]

I'm surprised that "blink and you'll miss it" government got anything implemented.

[Puja]

I'm surprised that "blink and you'll miss it" government got anything implemented.

I think you'll find they did an awful lot. That was kinda the problem.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

Are you just being cynical or do you have a concrete reason to preemptively find them guilty of stealing data?

As Stom says (and as I've already said) there are several reasons to be concerned. This isn't preemptively finding them guilty (that's a straw man argument), this is an attempt to prevent a problem before it happens. What I wouldn't want is to find them guilty of stealing our data after the event, because then it would be too late.

Robert Colvile is one of the brains behind Trussonomics. Why would I find him remotely convincing when he speaks in defence of Palantir, or any topic for that matter?

Hence the DPIA and contract. Pre-contract data protection and cyber security assurance would, assuming that the procurement team have done their job properly, would tease out data flows and risks. A DPIA that identified a high risk of data misuse would require ICO involvement too.

[morepork]

I'm surprised that "blink and you'll miss it" government got anything implemented.

Watch out for the Three Whoresmen of the Apocolash in NZ....they will be vying for the title of Idiotic Governance pretty soon....

[cashead]

I'm surprised that "blink and you'll miss it" government got anything implemented.

Watch out for the Three Whoresmen of the Apocolash in NZ....they will be vying for the title of Idiotic Governance pretty soon....

"soon."

[morepork]

I'm surprised that "blink and you'll miss it" government got anything implemented.

Watch out for the Three Whoresmen of the Apocolash in NZ....they will be vying for the title of Idiotic Governance pretty soon....

"soon."

Fark. Total train wreck after a couple of days. Unbelievable. Talk about being fucked by the long strap on of lobbyists.

[cashead]

Watch out for the Three Whoresmen of the Apocolash in NZ....they will be vying for the title of Idiotic Governance pretty soon....

"soon."

Fark. Total train wreck after a couple of days. Unbelievable. Talk about being fucked by the long strap on of lobbyists.

A party that sucks at the teat of cigarette companies and is infested with cigarette companny lobbyists immediately repealing the smoke free legislation?

[Puja]

Belting article on Starmer deciding that it'd be politic to praise Thatcher: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... our-tories

It happened because Starmer is listening to focus groups of swing voters. But the brutal truth is that there are no swing voters left – when support for the Tory party has fallen to 25%, there is no longer a pond to fish in. You’re convening groups of voters who are undecided whether to vote Tory, stay at home or opt for Nigel Farage and the Reform party. Sure they have views on what would make them listen to Labour – but they will never switch.

The priority for Starmer is to talk to the 45% of the voters he has won over and to reassure them that he is the change they want to see in the world of British politics.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

Belting article on Starmer deciding that it'd be politic to praise Thatcher: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... our-tories

It happened because Starmer is listening to focus groups of swing voters. But the brutal truth is that there are no swing voters left – when support for the Tory party has fallen to 25%, there is no longer a pond to fish in. You’re convening groups of voters who are undecided whether to vote Tory, stay at home or opt for Nigel Farage and the Reform party. Sure they have views on what would make them listen to Labour – but they will never switch.

The priority for Starmer is to talk to the 45% of the voters he has won over and to reassure them that he is the change they want to see in the world of British politics.

Puja

Disagree. Those voters who have temporarily decided to support Labour can still be moved back if Labour starts to worry them more than the Conservatives. The poll lead is good news for Labour, but its not firm and could easily be dented. Many of those who are loaning their vote to Labour want reassurance that they are a sensible party of government who are indulging in student union politics. Starmer is providing that reassurance.

Of course the mere mention of Thatcher gets some lefties raging from the outset. That's probably the point Starmer is making and its not directed at them.

He could of course start to push out a load of policies, but do we know when the next election is yet? Is there time for the tories to nick them or to make them impossible to implement? Yep. Best keep quiet and just look competent against the Tory insanity.

[Puja]

Belting article on Starmer deciding that it'd be politic to praise Thatcher: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... our-tories

It happened because Starmer is listening to focus groups of swing voters. But the brutal truth is that there are no swing voters left – when support for the Tory party has fallen to 25%, there is no longer a pond to fish in. You’re convening groups of voters who are undecided whether to vote Tory, stay at home or opt for Nigel Farage and the Reform party. Sure they have views on what would make them listen to Labour – but they will never switch.

The priority for Starmer is to talk to the 45% of the voters he has won over and to reassure them that he is the change they want to see in the world of British politics.

Puja

Disagree. Those voters who have temporarily decided to support Labour can still be moved back if Labour starts to worry them more than the Conservatives. The poll lead is good news for Labour, but its not firm and could easily be dented. Many of those who are loaning their vote to Labour want reassurance that they are a sensible party of government who are indulging in student union politics. Starmer is providing that reassurance.

Of course the mere mention of Thatcher gets some lefties raging from the outset. That's probably the point Starmer is making and its not directed at them.

He could of course start to push out a load of policies, but do we know when the next election is yet? Is there time for the tories to nick them or to make them impossible to implement? Yep. Best keep quiet and just look competent against the Tory insanity.

There is a fair difference between "reassuring that they are a sensible party of government" and "being a Labour leader deciding to praise Thatcher" (however qualified that praise was). It's not like it was an off-the-cuff remark in the heat of the moment - it was an article for the Telegraph where every word was planned and thought through. It was deliberately chosen in an attempt to fish for Conservative voters, but I can't imagine it has won many new votes over to his cause, considering he already currently has just about everyone willing to loan their vote to him.

And on his other side, it's really difficult to drive away left wing voters in a FPtP system when there's a Tory government in power, especially one as reprehensible as its current iteration, but Starmer's really working hard at finding where the absolute limit is. I don't know how many new blue voters he will get in from choosing to praise Thatcher, but I can't imagine it's as many as the red he'll lose from people going Green/Breakthrough/Lib Dem or just not voting. Likely won't harm him all in all, but he needs to be careful not to drive away his base in his attempts to steal the Tory base.

Agreed with you on the best strategy being keeping quiet, but this ain't quiet!

Puja

[Sandydragon]

Much of the Telegraph will vote for UKIP/Reform these days. But, consider the anti-Labour stories at the last election due to the likelihood of Corbyn becoming Prime Minister. It's very hard to paint Starmer as an enemy of the state and loony leftie (which in my view Corbyn was, so not much need for thick paint) when he is writing something semi-praiseworthy of Thatcher in the Tory Party's bible.

He never has to mention Thatcher again, but he's just shot dead a Tory attack line.

[Sandydragon]

Meanwhile, Sunak is making it clear that Farage wouldn't be stopped from joining the Conservatives. For those of us who were on the left of the Tory Party, that would be the final straw.