RugbyRebels

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: Devils advocate:

But saddam was a dictator who was perfectly happy to murder his own people. We were also spending millions each year keeping him bottled up, Operations Resinate North and South. An affection for the Iraqi people would be a justification for removing a tyrant.

Obviously the follow on pint is why not dozens of other nations? No argument there as such, but I can easily see an interventionist argument for invading Iraq.

Only someone so inured to the horrors of war would seriously make such an argument. The no fly zone worked, war meant something much much more intense and horrific.

Cost a fortune though and is that really a long term solution?

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:
Only someone so inured to the horrors of war would seriously make such an argument. The no fly zone worked, war meant something much much more intense and horrific.

Cost a fortune though and is that really a long term solution?

And the Iraq war was a long term solution? Look where it got us...

Sandydragon wrote:If you are that far around the spectrum, then anyone is right wing. Or its a useful label to throw at anyone who disagrees with you.

I really don't think Corbyn is interested in winning the GE. All is wants is purity of protest and if Labour end up with a handful of MPs who are all ideologically pure then he will regard that as a resounding success. Moderate Labour MPs need to take control of their party again, although with the influx of new members, that chance seems to have gone for good. Either they hope the new members leave following GE humiliation or they move themselves.

Hobson's choice.

Sandydragon wrote:In the latest installment of 'Labour at war with itself, you just couldn't make it up', the Party HQ asked Corbyn and his team to wind its collective necks in. I think a win for him is almost certain, followed by a night of the long knives clear out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... _hp_ref=uk

Sandydragon wrote:In the latest installment of 'Labour at war with itself, you just couldn't make it up', the Party HQ asked Corbyn and his team to wind its collective necks in. I think a win for him is almost certain, followed by a night of the long knives clear out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... _hp_ref=uk

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:In the latest installment of 'Labour at war with itself, you just couldn't make it up', the Party HQ asked Corbyn and his team to wind its collective necks in. I think a win for him is almost certain, followed by a night of the long knives clear out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... _hp_ref=uk

Tasteless metaphor to use.

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:In the latest installment of 'Labour at war with itself, you just couldn't make it up', the Party HQ asked Corbyn and his team to wind its collective necks in. I think a win for him is almost certain, followed by a night of the long knives clear out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... _hp_ref=uk

Tasteless metaphor to use.

Compared to the labelling of opponents by Corbyn et al, its not that out of order.

Sandydragon wrote:I sure the female labour MPs trolled by Corbyn supporters are complaining about being called Tories.

I find this piece quite illustrative.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/labour-leaders ... ts-1515765

Sandydragon wrote:I sure the female labour MPs trolled by Corbyn supporters are complaining about being called Tories.

I find this piece quite illustrative.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/labour-leaders ... ts-1515765

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:I sure the female labour MPs trolled by Corbyn supporters are complaining about being called Tories.

I find this piece quite illustrative.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/labour-leaders ... ts-1515765

Yeah, I would also be very offended if I was accused of being a Tory.

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:I sure the female labour MPs trolled by Corbyn supporters are complaining about being called Tories.

I find this piece quite illustrative.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/labour-leaders ... ts-1515765

Yeah, I would also be very offended if I was accused of being a Tory. Calling people names is not against the law though, as far as I'm aware, so these public figures should just accept that if they support a particular sort of politics that negatively affects people's lives, then they might get called some names.

It's completely another thing for a public figure like Watson to be throwing around insulting labels though. He is in a position of responsibility and should act with more decorum.

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:I sure the female labour MPs trolled by Corbyn supporters are complaining about being called Tories.

I find this piece quite illustrative.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/labour-leaders ... ts-1515765

Yeah, I would also be very offended if I was accused of being a Tory. Calling people names is not against the law though, as far as I'm aware, so these public figures should just accept that if they support a particular sort of politics that negatively affects people's lives, then they might get called some names.

It's completely another thing for a public figure like Watson to be throwing around insulting labels though. He is in a position of responsibility and should act with more decorum.

Depends on the sexist language being used does it not? Whilst on the subject, putting bricks through ha window very much is against the law. Apparently that is excusable by some of Corbyns supporters.

There is a rather disgusting side to some of Corbyns supporters which wants to drown out all reasonable discussion and justify its action. Most people can see that.

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:I sure the female labour MPs trolled by Corbyn supporters are complaining about being called Tories.

I find this piece quite illustrative.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/labour-leaders ... ts-1515765

Yeah, I would also be very offended if I was accused of being a Tory. Calling people names is not against the law though, as far as I'm aware, so these public figures should just accept that if they support a particular sort of politics that negatively affects people's lives, then they might get called some names.

It's completely another thing for a public figure like Watson to be throwing around insulting labels though. He is in a position of responsibility and should act with more decorum.

Depends on the sexist language being used does it not? Whilst on the subject, putting bricks through ha window very much is against the law. Apparently that is excusable by some of Corbyns supporters.

There isa rather disgusting side to some of Corbyns supporters which wants to drown out all reasonable discussion and justify its action. Most people can see that.

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:I sure the female labour MPs trolled by Corbyn supporters are complaining about being called Tories.

I find this piece quite illustrative.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/labour-leaders ... ts-1515765

Yeah, I would also be very offended if I was accused of being a Tory. Calling people names is not against the law though, as far as I'm aware, so these public figures should just accept that if they support a particular sort of politics that negatively affects people's lives, then they might get called some names.

It's completely another thing for a public figure like Watson to be throwing around insulting labels though. He is in a position of responsibility and should act with more decorum.

Depends on the sexist language being used does it not? Whilst on the subject, putting bricks through ha window very much is against the law. Apparently that is excusable by some of Corbyns supporters.

There isa rather disgusting side to some of Corbyns supporters which wants to drown out all reasonable discussion and justify its action. Most people can see that.

Zhivago wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Zhivago wrote:
Yeah, I would also be very offended if I was accused of being a Tory. Calling people names is not against the law though, as far as I'm aware, so these public figures should just accept that if they support a particular sort of politics that negatively affects people's lives, then they might get called some names.

It's completely another thing for a public figure like Watson to be throwing around insulting labels though. He is in a position of responsibility and should act with more decorum.

Depends on the sexist language being used does it not? Whilst on the subject, putting bricks through ha window very much is against the law. Apparently that is excusable by some of Corbyns supporters.

There is a rather disgusting side to some of Corbyns supporters which wants to drown out all reasonable discussion and justify its action. Most people can see that.

Is it? As far as I've heard, it has been widely condemned, no? Unless you saw something that I didn't, in which case, I'd be interested to read about it.

As you can imagine, when you have hundreds of thousands of supporters, you are bound to get a few nutters, simply because of the sheer quantity. What is important is that anyone who acts in an unacceptable manner is condemned and they are expelled from the party. I assume you agree that it is not reasonable to blame Corbyn for the actions of his supporters?

Zhivago wrote:The latest YouGov polls show that the Conservative lead over Labour has halved since last week, from 14 points to seven.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Zhivago wrote:The latest YouGov polls show that the Conservative lead over Labour has halved since last week, from 14 points to seven.

Just the 7 points?

Far-left figures ready to rejoin Labour
Lucy Fisher, Senior Political Correspondent
August 12 2016, 12:01am, The Times

Leading former figures in Militant have said that they want to rejoin Labour and form a new alliance if Jeremy Corbyn is re-elected as leader.

Dave Nellist, the former MP expelled from Labour in 1991 due to his support for the hard-left 1980s faction, said that he hoped to return to the party but added: “Not the Labour it is now but the Labour I hope it will become if Jeremy is re-elected.”

Mr Nellist, chairman of the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition, posed the idea of far-left groups and individuals “reaffiliating” with Labour. He cited as a template the Co-operative Party, which stands candidates in conjunction with Labour at elections. Mr Nellist said that there could be a “new federal arrangement” under Mr Corbyn’s auspices if the right began to split away.

Peter Taaffe, another leading figure in Militant who was expelled from Labour in 1983, also said he wanted to rejoin Labour if Mr Corbyn were re-elected. He is now the general secretary of the Socialist Party.

Derek Hatton, the former deputy leader of Liverpool council in the 1980s who was a leading Militant figure and expelled in 1986, mused that he too might reapply to the party. “Would I rejoin? I don’t know, I might very well do,” he told The Times.

At present Labour rules ban members or supporters of rival parties from joining, so Mr Nellist and Mr Taaffe would have to quit their roles in far-left parties to have a prospect of signing up again.

Because both were expelled in the past, they would also need to secure permission to reapply to the party from Labour’s national executive committee (NEC).

There has been speculation that left-wing figures could try to alter the party’s membership rules, but Mr Corbyn’s team poured cold water on the idea last night, with a spokesman saying: “Jeremy fully supports the decision of conference and the NEC on the party’s rules on membership.”

It came as Unison, Britain’s second-largest trade union, endorsed Mr Corbyn yesterday. He is also being supported by Unite, the Communication Workers’ Union, and the rail unions Aslef and the TSSA, while Owen Smith, Mr Corbyn’s rival for the leadership, has won the backing of the GMB, the steelworkers’ union, Community, and Usdaw, the shopworkers’ union. As the leadership contest grows increasingly bitter, John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, accused Mr Smith of smear tactics and mimicking Tory policies.

Yesterday Labour’s ruling body argued that a High Court judge was wrong when he ruled on Monday that new party members were entitled to vote in the leadership election.

The judge had overturned an NEC decision last month to bar 130,000 members who have signed up after January 12 from having an automatic ballot.

Iain McNicol, the party’s general secretary, asked the Court of Appeal to reinstate the NEC’s decision to impose the six-month “freeze date”. Lord Justice Beatson said he would aim to give judgment later today.

At a hustings event in Gateshead last night, Mr Corbyn, Mr Smith and the audience were plunged into darkness when the lights went out.

BLASTS FROM THE PAST

Dave Nellist, 64
Elected as a Labour MP in 1983, his career did not last long. One of only two MPs who openly supported the Trotskyite Militant Tendency, he was expelled from Labour in 1991. When he was elected Mr Nellist was given a windowless office to share with another newcomer, Tony Blair. After four weeks Mr Blair complained, was reallocated to a room with Gordon Brown and New Labour was born.

Derek Hatton, 68
Rose to prominence in the 1980s as the sharp-suited deputy leader of Liverpool city council. He spearheaded the Militant infiltration of the city’s Labour Party and set an illegal budget in 1985. Mr Hatton used a private hire cab company to deliver redundancy notices to 31,000 council workers, leading to denunciation from Neil Kinnock. The next year he was expelled.

Peter Taaffe, 74
General secretary of Militant from its formation in 1964 until it disbanded in 1992. When the Socialist Party was created from the embers of Militant in 1997, Mr Taaffe became its general secretary, a role he still holds.