RugbyRebels

TheNomad wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 5:37 pm

jngf wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 5:17 pm
Try out both Pollock and Earl (if he’s not picked for Lions and I’m not as confident as many that he will be ) as a center partnership.

I honestly can't tell if that's a joke or not.

always a challenge

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 5:49 pm Croft's best international performances came when he was used as a conventional flanker with the Lions. He suffered from the same thing as Peter Crouch in football - football anagers saw a 6ft7 striker and put the ball to him in the air, when his main skills were with his feet, and rugby managers looked at a flanker with incredible pace and decided he should sit in the 13 channel all the time, when his main skills were traditional forwards ones.

Puja

I have to say I really don’t think this was the case - yes he was good in the lineout and could use his pace to make some great cover tackles but I would have had Haskell or Robshaw or Moody or Wordsley in the 6 shirt every time over Croft, simply on grounds of pure physicality and power.Croft was used by us like Pierre Spies was used by the boks - a round peg in a square hole.

jngf wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 6:47 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 5:49 pm Croft's best international performances came when he was used as a conventional flanker with the Lions. He suffered from the same thing as Peter Crouch in football - football anagers saw a 6ft7 striker and put the ball to him in the air, when his main skills were with his feet, and rugby managers looked at a flanker with incredible pace and decided he should sit in the 13 channel all the time, when his main skills were traditional forwards ones.

Puja

I have to say I really don’t think this was the case - yes he was good in the lineout and could use his pace to make some great cover tackles but I would have had Haskell or Robshaw or Moody or Wordsley in the 6 shirt every time over Croft, simply on grounds of pure physicality and power.Croft was used by us like Pierre Spies was used by the boks - a round peg in a square hole.

I have to say you say this time after time, yet Croft has more Lions caps than all the above.....combined. He was a very special talent....the others you mention decent internationals.

jngf wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 6:47 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 5:49 pm Croft's best international performances came when he was used as a conventional flanker with the Lions. He suffered from the same thing as Peter Crouch in football - football anagers saw a 6ft7 striker and put the ball to him in the air, when his main skills were with his feet, and rugby managers looked at a flanker with incredible pace and decided he should sit in the 13 channel all the time, when his main skills were traditional forwards ones.

Puja

I have to say I really don’t think this was the case - yes he was good in the lineout and could use his pace to make some great cover tackles but I would have had Haskell or Robshaw or Moody or Wordsley in the 6 shirt every time over Croft, simply on grounds of pure physicality and power.Croft was used by us like Pierre Spies was used by the boks - a round peg in a square hole.

Cause the Tigers old guard that were in the squad at the start and in the coaching team throughout Croft's career were well known to love show ponies in the pack obviously.

Croft had an underrated work rate, could make tackle and compete at the breakdown. His pace and skillset seems to be the only thing people remember, well that and him being an excellent lineout jumper.

jngf wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 6:47 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 5:49 pm Croft's best international performances came when he was used as a conventional flanker with the Lions. He suffered from the same thing as Peter Crouch in football - football anagers saw a 6ft7 striker and put the ball to him in the air, when his main skills were with his feet, and rugby managers looked at a flanker with incredible pace and decided he should sit in the 13 channel all the time, when his main skills were traditional forwards ones.

Puja

I have to say I really don’t think this was the case - yes he was good in the lineout and could use his pace to make some great cover tackles but I would have had Haskell or Robshaw or Moody or Wordsley in the 6 shirt every time over Croft, simply on grounds of pure physicality and power.Croft was used by us like Pierre Spies was used by the boks - a round peg in a square hole.

I will generally give you a lot of latitude on your opinions - I may not agree with you oftimes, but it's interesting to hear a different perspective. On this occasion however, you are just factually incorrect. The situation was not as you remember it.

Puja

Thoughts on Radwan and/or OHC for the tour?

TheNomad wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:24 am Thoughts on Radwan and/or OHC for the tour?

No complaints, but Roebuck and Sleightholme are surely in the front seat and I'd like to see Murley get another shot. It's nice that we're stacked in a few units.

Sleightholme was still in a boot at the Bristol game. Not sure when he is expected back.

Looked fucking massive though.

Radwan and OHC are definitely candidates.

Who else? Roebuck, Daly, Murley and Sleightholme. Then you move into the uncapped players for Hendy, Brown-Bampoe, Muir and Ibitoye.

Dunno if Muir should be in the conversation- he's had a great season no doubt, but these tours tend to be about the future and he's what, 31?

Yeah, he just looks like a good club player to me. Ibitoye on the other end of the scale is still just so wild in what he does. I can't ever see him getting away with the way he carries the ball at international level.

Whether Daly goes will be an interesting call. Not one for the future, but that flexibility, kicking and 80 (?) caps ios hard to ignore if you've got a lot of players missing.

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 10:24 am Dunno if Muir should be in the conversation- he's had a great season no doubt, but these tours tend to be about the future and he's what, 31?

He's 29 and has the Rokoduguni effect of only having been playing top-level rugby for 5 years so his body's been under less stress, but I agree with your premise. It's annoying - he's such a good player and it feels like, if he did get a run in the team, he'd probably be fantastic, but there's just so much talent around with incredible USPs that you can't work out how he fits in.

TheNomad wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:24 am Thoughts on Radwan and/or OHC for the tour?

OHC's had a great year, but again I don't know where he fits in. You've got IFW and Freeman as the undisputed, then Roebuck and Sleightholme as being very nearly nailed onto the squad. Murley is probably just below the latter two, given they've shown they can step up and excel and he hasn't definitively (yet). Even we're saying Freeman's with the Lions and Sleightholme and IFW are injured, then we already have both wing spots filled by Roebuck-Murley, so we're talking about a bench option, at best, for one of the morass of (mostly untried) exciting players.

Plus, there's the option of Arundell, given that Selects Bigthighs has specifically answered a question of when he was available with, “As I understand, as soon as the Racing season finishes then he’s going to be available for selection."

I'd rank the pretenders as:
1) Arundell - I think we need to get him back reintegrated as quickly as possible and this tour's an ideal opportunity to get his confidence and swagger back.
2=)Radwan/Brown-Bampoe/Hendy - Tied between these three and I can't separate them. Radwan's got that incredible pace and seems to have gone up another level after moving from the English!Connacht, Hendy has that incredibly weird running style that seems so effective in breaking contact, and Brown-Bampoe has so little experience but appears to have everything you'd want from him.
5) OHC - Top Prem try-scorer, but how confident are we that he can make space as well as finish?
6=) Elliot/Muir - look like great players, but maybe just club-level?
8) Ibitoye - will make a great Barbarians player at some point and will have pundits demanding his selection, but is too loose and would not survive the step-up against the very best.

And that's assuming that we're completely done with the likes of Daly and Cokanasiga (neither of which are certainties).

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 7:14 pm

jngf wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 6:47 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 5:49 pm Croft's best international performances came when he was used as a conventional flanker with the Lions. He suffered from the same thing as Peter Crouch in football - football anagers saw a 6ft7 striker and put the ball to him in the air, when his main skills were with his feet, and rugby managers looked at a flanker with incredible pace and decided he should sit in the 13 channel all the time, when his main skills were traditional forwards ones.

Puja

I have to say I really don’t think this was the case - yes he was good in the lineout and could use his pace to make some great cover tackles but I would have had Haskell or Robshaw or Moody or Wordsley in the 6 shirt every time over Croft, simply on grounds of pure physicality and power.Croft was used by us like Pierre Spies was used by the boks - a round peg in a square hole.

I will generally give you a lot of latitude on your opinions - I may not agree with you oftimes, but it's interesting to hear a different perspective. On this occasion however, you are just factually incorrect. The situation was not as you remember it.

Puja

Croft was an excellent flanker in all aspects required, including physicality in contact. His wing-standard pace and his lock-standard line-out presence were 'extras'. IMO, he was the second-best English 6 of my rugby-watching, only narrowly behind Richard Hill. If I was picking an all-time back row I'd be tempted to include both by moving Hill to 7.

Croft was more affected by injury than some. He was also unlucky not to coincide with a better group of fellow-players. Had he had as many world-class playmates as Hill and Back did, he might have been more universally ranked as top-notch.

Is there a more frustrating/disappointing under-achiever than Coka?

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 12:43 pm Is there a more frustrating/disappointing under-achiever than Coka?

His ship has surely sailed with so many other wingers playing so well. When was his last cap?

21 year old Toby Elliott written off intly shock, behind late breaking PBB ...

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 12:28 pm

TheNomad wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:24 am Thoughts on Radwan and/or OHC for the tour?

OHC's had a great year, but again I don't know where he fits in. You've got IFW and Freeman as the undisputed, then Roebuck and Sleightholme as being very nearly nailed onto the squad. Murley is probably just below the latter two, given they've shown they can step up and excel and he hasn't definitively (yet). Even we're saying Freeman's with the Lions and Sleightholme and IFW are injured, then we already have both wing spots filled by Roebuck-Murley, so we're talking about a bench option, at best, for one of the morass of (mostly untried) exciting players.

Plus, there's the option of Arundell, given that Selects Bigthighs has specifically answered a question of when he was available with, “As I understand, as soon as the Racing season finishes then he’s going to be available for selection."

I'd rank the pretenders as:
1) Arundell - I think we need to get him back reintegrated as quickly as possible and this tour's an ideal opportunity to get his confidence and swagger back.
2=)Radwan/Brown-Bampoe/Hendy - Tied between these three and I can't separate them. Radwan's got that incredible pace and seems to have gone up another level after moving from the English!Connacht, Hendy has that incredibly weird running style that seems so effective in breaking contact, and Brown-Bampoe has so little experience but appears to have everything you'd want from him.
5) OHC - Top Prem try-scorer, but how confident are we that he can make space as well as finish?
6=) Elliot/Muir - look like great players, but maybe just club-level?
8) Ibitoye - will make a great Barbarians player at some point and will have pundits demanding his selection, but is too loose and would not survive the step-up against the very best.

And that's assuming that we're completely done with the likes of Daly and Cokanasiga (neither of which are certainties).

Puja

Only one thing I'd say about OHC is that he has a howitzer of a left foot. He uses it terribly but it could potentially set him apart as we aren't stacked with centres with notable kicking games and our flyhalfs and Furbank aren't known for their range. With some coaching could he offer the Daly/Lowe style big clearance option?

He's a big lad and I'd like to see him throw that weight around a little more but he's been a regular worker for Tigers, he doesn't just wait for chances to finish. He's also good at contesting high balls and we know Simply Ballkick likes his tactical play. If he's going to get another go for England it would be better to take him whilst his confidence is on a high rather than having to work on picking up Arundell who looked work shy for England previously.

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 1:46 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 12:28 pm

TheNomad wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 9:24 am Thoughts on Radwan and/or OHC for the tour?

OHC's had a great year, but again I don't know where he fits in. You've got IFW and Freeman as the undisputed, then Roebuck and Sleightholme as being very nearly nailed onto the squad. Murley is probably just below the latter two, given they've shown they can step up and excel and he hasn't definitively (yet). Even we're saying Freeman's with the Lions and Sleightholme and IFW are injured, then we already have both wing spots filled by Roebuck-Murley, so we're talking about a bench option, at best, for one of the morass of (mostly untried) exciting players.

Plus, there's the option of Arundell, given that Selects Bigthighs has specifically answered a question of when he was available with, “As I understand, as soon as the Racing season finishes then he’s going to be available for selection."

I'd rank the pretenders as:
1) Arundell - I think we need to get him back reintegrated as quickly as possible and this tour's an ideal opportunity to get his confidence and swagger back.
2=)Radwan/Brown-Bampoe/Hendy - Tied between these three and I can't separate them. Radwan's got that incredible pace and seems to have gone up another level after moving from the English!Connacht, Hendy has that incredibly weird running style that seems so effective in breaking contact, and Brown-Bampoe has so little experience but appears to have everything you'd want from him.
5) OHC - Top Prem try-scorer, but how confident are we that he can make space as well as finish?
6=) Elliot/Muir - look like great players, but maybe just club-level?
8) Ibitoye - will make a great Barbarians player at some point and will have pundits demanding his selection, but is too loose and would not survive the step-up against the very best.

And that's assuming that we're completely done with the likes of Daly and Cokanasiga (neither of which are certainties).

Puja

Arundell who looked work shy for England previously.

? which games do you refer to?

That one where he scored five tries

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 1:59 pm That one where he scored five tries

...that was kind of what I thought....

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 1:59 pm That one where he scored five tries

He only touched the ball five time, the lazy fecker.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 2:04 pm

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 1:59 pm That one where he scored five tries

He only touched the ball five time, the lazy fecker.

Should have been chasing kicks

To be fair I think our props would have scored most of those too.

Just watching the latest Squidge video and reminded that until pretty recently Max Malins was a starting England wing. A lot of these guys we’ve already discussed were even available at this point.

That’s nothing against Malins, I think he should be a 10/15, but it’s weird.

Good kick chase though.

Yeah they were almost all run-ins

Was never convinced by Malins in white. Good player but felt a bit like we'd found Jack Nowell's successor with less workrate

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 2:18 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 2:04 pm

Danno wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 1:59 pm That one where he scored five tries

He only touched the ball five time, the lazy fecker.

Should have been chasing kicks

Which was the one where Farrell screamed at him to chase the kicks?

He scored five tries against Chile in a rout but against Wales and Argentina in the third place playoff didn't impress. Now I'd be willing to excuse a lot given he had the misfortune to have Farrell at 10 but hugging the touchline and not chasing kicks didn't really impress me a great deal at the time.

He's not set the world alight at Racing, hopefully he kicks on at Bath but I don't see the need to rush him back into the squad.