RugbyRebels

World Rugby Ranking Positions Held in Top 10 since RWC2015

NZL: 1
AUS: 2-7
IRE: 2-8
ENG: 2-8
RSA: 3-7
WAL: 3-8
SCO: 5-9
ARG: 5-10
FRA: 6-10
FIJ: 8-10
JAP: 9-10

I reckon those spreads show that top-tier rugby has been quite competitive recently. 7 Countries have been both top 5 and below 5th.

Interestingly, apart from New Zealand, no team has been permanently higher than 7th.

Also no team has peaked at 4, 7 or 10.

When did Ireland end up 8th? Must've been quite quick after the 2015 RWC?

Puja

Puja wrote:When did Ireland end up 8th? Must've been quite quick after the 2015 RWC?

Puja

15 February to 13 March 2016.

Remember when selecting players born in another country (or even players with names from another country) was deemed to be a dastardly practice,verging on cheating? Notice how things have changed now that our friends in the North have discovered they can buy their way out of player development problems?

Anyway, time for the annual "6? Nations Poaching Round-Up" summarising the players born in one country but capped for another.*

Working from the squads (original plus replacements) on Wikipedia:

Scotland are easily the champions with their deliberate and successful scouting campaign securing 19 foreign-born squad members (9 ENG, 4 NZ, 3 SA, 2 AUS, 1 USA)

Wales and Italy are ties for silver with 9 apiece. Wales will no doubt argue that their 7 English-born players are a mere feudal hangover, although their 2 Kiwis might be harder to account for. Italy have cast the net a little wider, drawing from 7 other nations, boasting 3 NZers and 1 each from Guinea, Germany, Zimbabwe, Argentina, South Africa and Ireland.

England is only a little behind, with 8 foreign-born players, although they ought to receive a hefty handicap having by far the biggest local player pool, and one of the more brazen attitudes to the whole thing. They have 3 NZers, 2 AUS, 2 Fiji and 1 Samoan.

Ireland have 7 players off the boat. 2 NZers, 2 SA, a Frenchman an English and a Spaniard.

About the only thing French rugby has to its recent credit is bringing in a passport requirement for national selection. Thye only have 5 introduced players (and would probably argue its only 4): 2 SA, 1 NZ, 1 Cameroon and 1 New Caledonia (which is technically part of France).

On the other side of the coin, countries supplying players to others are
England: 17
NZ: 15
SA: 8
Aust: 4 (surprisingly low)
Fiji: 2
Arg: 1
France: 1
Germany: 1
Guinea: 1
Ireland: 1
New Caledonia: 1
Samoa: 1
Spain: 1
USA: 1
Zimbabwe: 1

Although you could technically select an English Exiles XV to play an NZ Exiles XV, the match would be hampered somewhat by the fact not a single 6N team has any foreign-born hookers!

And before you ask, for balance, I can report that the NZ October/November 2018 touring squad of 48 included 5 foreign-born players: 2 Tongans, 1 Samoan, 1 Fijian and an Aussie.

*Yes, I'm well aware that there are shades of grey involved e.g. Welsh players with Welsh parents who happened to live nearer an English whelping facility are not the same as Samoans contracted to serve their 3 years and be available which are not the same as the middling Super Rugby Player with a foreign granny who has his Scottish kit mailed to him before he's even got on the plane. Chill out, it's just a bit of fun.

Here's one - England have now scored a try in the first three minutes of their last 5 tests - NZ, Japan, Australia, Ireland, and France.

Puja

Lizard wrote:Remember when selecting players born in another country (or even players with names from another country) was deemed to be a dastardly practice,verging on cheating? Notice how things have changed now that our friends in the North have discovered they can buy their way out of player development problems?

Anyway, time for the annual "6? Nations Poaching Round-Up" summarising the players born in one country but capped for another.*

Working from the squads (original plus replacements) on Wikipedia:

Scotland are easily the champions with their deliberate and successful scouting campaign securing 19 foreign-born squad members (9 ENG, 4 NZ, 3 SA, 2 AUS, 1 USA)

Wales and Italy are ties for silver with 9 apiece. Wales will no doubt argue that their 7 English-born players are a mere feudal hangover, although their 2 Kiwis might be harder to account for. Italy have cast the net a little wider, drawing from 7 other nations, boasting 3 NZers and 1 each from Guinea, Germany, Zimbabwe, Argentina, South Africa and Ireland.

England is only a little behind, with 8 foreign-born players, although they ought to receive a hefty handicap having by far the biggest local player pool, and one of the more brazen attitudes to the whole thing. They have 3 NZers, 2 AUS, 2 Fiji and 1 Samoan.

Ireland have 7 players off the boat. 2 NZers, 2 SA, a Frenchman an English and a Spaniard.

About the only thing French rugby has to its recent credit is bringing in a passport requirement for national selection. Thye only have 5 introduced players (and would probably argue its only 4): 2 SA, 1 NZ, 1 Cameroon and 1 New Caledonia (which is technically part of France).

On the other side of the coin, countries supplying players to others are
England: 17
NZ: 15
SA: 8
Aust: 4 (surprisingly low)
Fiji: 2
Arg: 1
France: 1
Germany: 1
Guinea: 1
Ireland: 1
New Caledonia: 1
Samoa: 1
Spain: 1
USA: 1
Zimbabwe: 1

Although you could technically select an English Exiles XV to play an NZ Exiles XV, the match would be hampered somewhat by the fact not a single 6N team has any foreign-born hookers!

And before you ask, for balance, I can report that the NZ October/November 2018 touring squad of 48 included 5 foreign-born players: 2 Tongans, 1 Samoan, 1 Fijian and an Aussie.

*Yes, I'm well aware that there are shades of grey involved e.g. Welsh players with Welsh parents who happened to live nearer an English whelping facility are not the same as Samoans contracted to serve their 3 years and be available which are not the same as the middling Super Rugby Player with a foreign granny who has his Scottish kit mailed to him before he's even got on the plane. Chill out, it's just a bit of fun.

Ultan Dillane I assume is our Frenchman but who's our Spaniard?

Lizard wrote:Remember when selecting players born in another country (or even players with names from another country) was deemed to be a dastardly practice,verging on cheating? Notice how things have changed now that our friends in the North have discovered they can buy their way out of player development problems?

Anyway, time for the annual "6? Nations Poaching Round-Up" summarising the players born in one country but capped for another.*

Working from the squads (original plus replacements) on Wikipedia:

Scotland are easily the champions with their deliberate and successful scouting campaign securing 19 foreign-born squad members (9 ENG, 4 NZ, 3 SA, 2 AUS, 1 USA)

Wales and Italy are ties for silver with 9 apiece. Wales will no doubt argue that their 7 English-born players are a mere feudal hangover, although their 2 Kiwis might be harder to account for. Italy have cast the net a little wider, drawing from 7 other nations, boasting 3 NZers and 1 each from Guinea, Germany, Zimbabwe, Argentina, South Africa and Ireland.

England is only a little behind, with 8 foreign-born players, although they ought to receive a hefty handicap having by far the biggest local player pool, and one of the more brazen attitudes to the whole thing. They have 3 NZers, 2 AUS, 2 Fiji and 1 Samoan.

Ireland have 7 players off the boat. 2 NZers, 2 SA, a Frenchman an English and a Spaniard.

About the only thing French rugby has to its recent credit is bringing in a passport requirement for national selection. Thye only have 5 introduced players (and would probably argue its only 4): 2 SA, 1 NZ, 1 Cameroon and 1 New Caledonia (which is technically part of France).

On the other side of the coin, countries supplying players to others are
England: 17
NZ: 15
SA: 8
Aust: 4 (surprisingly low)
Fiji: 2
Arg: 1
France: 1
Germany: 1
Guinea: 1
Ireland: 1
New Caledonia: 1
Samoa: 1
Spain: 1
USA: 1
Zimbabwe: 1

Although you could technically select an English Exiles XV to play an NZ Exiles XV, the match would be hampered somewhat by the fact not a single 6N team has any foreign-born hookers!

And before you ask, for balance, I can report that the NZ October/November 2018 touring squad of 48 included 5 foreign-born players: 2 Tongans, 1 Samoan, 1 Fijian and an Aussie.

*Yes, I'm well aware that there are shades of grey involved e.g. Welsh players with Welsh parents who happened to live nearer an English whelping facility are not the same as Samoans contracted to serve their 3 years and be available which are not the same as the middling Super Rugby Player with a foreign granny who has his Scottish kit mailed to him before he's even got on the plane. Chill out, it's just a bit of fun.

It just goes to show how misleading statistics can be when you pick a random metric.
I suppose this "bit of fun" is revenge for all the past "bits of fun" pointing out New Zealand's policy of scouring the Southern Pacific islands for prospects.

Any bites?

Sure.

"It just goes to show how misleading statistics can be when you pick a random metric."

Funny, that same line was trotted out when we explained that "poached" PIs playing for the ABs were for the most part born in NZ. At least the NH fans are consistent I guess.

I think you'd generally expect countries to be picking more players who were born elsewhere as the world gets smaller (in terms of people moving around more, not literally).

That NZ have only 4 players born outside NZ (and them all from Fiji, Samoa or Tonga), is more because who would want to move to NZ anyway? Jeez, I mean...your supermarkets have to be the worst supermarkets known to man and that's before we get to what you call beer...or your version of "Marmite". No wonder you all want to leave to come live in London.

Or did, before we decided to fuck ourselves with a rusty rake.

What manner of man gauges his quality of life through supermarkets?

morepork wrote:What manner of man gauges his quality of life through supermarkets?

Quality of your produce, my man. If you don't live on your own farm.

Or the quality of your beer, women, Chinese takeaways, and juvenile messageboard idiots.

Sounds like you had quite the holiday. Must have been glad to get back to your "beaches" and "mountains".

J Dory wrote:Sure.

"It just goes to show how misleading statistics can be when you pick a random metric."

Funny, that same line was trotted out when we explained that "poached" PIs playing for the ABs were for the most part born in NZ. At least the NH fans are consistent I guess.

I find that generally, when having a discussion, consistency is a useful thing to maintain. It makes the conversation a bit awkward when you are all over the place.

Anyway, chill, it's just a bit of fun.

All intended in fun Stones. In fact, the 180 degree flip on the attitudes towards poaching, while somehow maintaining a moral high ground, it's one of the funniest things that's occurred on this board.

Statistics Fred has gone a bit David Brent.

Will no one tell me who our spaniard is!!

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:Will no one tell me who our spaniard is!!

I choose not to.

Puja

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:Will no one tell me who our spaniard is!!

Prepare to be surprised, as it's probably who you'd least expect.

I’ve just googled who the ‘Spaniard’ is. I wouldn’t worry if I were you. The answer just reminded me of the time I got into an argument with a Welshman about the fact I didn’t agree that Simon Shaw was Kenyan, despite him being born in Nairobi, and therefore wasn’t really a poach.

Mellsblue wrote:I’ve just googled who the ‘Spaniard’ is. I wouldn’t worry if I were you. The answer just reminded me of the time I got into an argument with a Welshman about the fact I didn’t agree that Simon Shaw was Kenyan, despite him being born in Nairobi, and therefore wasn’t really a poach.

I don't worry. I'm just missing having an Israeli.

St Jordi of Ravers! I should have known.

Before he becomes a full international can we establish whether French born to a Scottish Dad, English educated, Scotland age grade, and now English age grade Cameron Redpath counts as a poach for anyone?

The mothers ethnicological contribution has been suspiciously left out. I sense a trap.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Lizard wrote:Remember when selecting players born in another country (or even players with names from another country) was deemed to be a dastardly practice,verging on cheating? Notice how things have changed now that our friends in the North have discovered they can buy their way out of player development problems?

Anyway, time for the annual "6? Nations Poaching Round-Up" summarising the players born in one country but capped for another.*

Working from the squads (original plus replacements) on Wikipedia:

Scotland are easily the champions with their deliberate and successful scouting campaign securing 19 foreign-born squad members (9 ENG, 4 NZ, 3 SA, 2 AUS, 1 USA)

Wales and Italy are ties for silver with 9 apiece. Wales will no doubt argue that their 7 English-born players are a mere feudal hangover, although their 2 Kiwis might be harder to account for. Italy have cast the net a little wider, drawing from 7 other nations, boasting 3 NZers and 1 each from Guinea, Germany, Zimbabwe, Argentina, South Africa and Ireland.

England is only a little behind, with 8 foreign-born players, although they ought to receive a hefty handicap having by far the biggest local player pool, and one of the more brazen attitudes to the whole thing. They have 3 NZers, 2 AUS, 2 Fiji and 1 Samoan.

Ireland have 7 players off the boat. 2 NZers, 2 SA, a Frenchman an English and a Spaniard.

About the only thing French rugby has to its recent credit is bringing in a passport requirement for national selection. Thye only have 5 introduced players (and would probably argue its only 4): 2 SA, 1 NZ, 1 Cameroon and 1 New Caledonia (which is technically part of France).

On the other side of the coin, countries supplying players to others are
England: 17
NZ: 15
SA: 8
Aust: 4 (surprisingly low)
Fiji: 2
Arg: 1
France: 1
Germany: 1
Guinea: 1
Ireland: 1
New Caledonia: 1
Samoa: 1
Spain: 1
USA: 1
Zimbabwe: 1

Although you could technically select an English Exiles XV to play an NZ Exiles XV, the match would be hampered somewhat by the fact not a single 6N team has any foreign-born hookers!

And before you ask, for balance, I can report that the NZ October/November 2018 touring squad of 48 included 5 foreign-born players: 2 Tongans, 1 Samoan, 1 Fijian and an Aussie.

*Yes, I'm well aware that there are shades of grey involved e.g. Welsh players with Welsh parents who happened to live nearer an English whelping facility are not the same as Samoans contracted to serve their 3 years and be available which are not the same as the middling Super Rugby Player with a foreign granny who has his Scottish kit mailed to him before he's even got on the plane. Chill out, it's just a bit of fun.

Ultan Dillane I assume is our Frenchman but who's our Spaniard?

Jordi Murphy. Born in Barcelona to Irish parents.

Lizard wrote:Undefeated Test Captains (with 10+ tests):

Buck Shelford 1988-90 (NZ) 14
Shalva Sutiashvili 2014-16* (GEO) 14
Kieran Read 2012-16* (NZ) 13
Dave Davies 1921-23 (ENG) 11
Dylan Hartley 2012-16* (ENG) 10

*Unfinished run

Barring injury or banning, it seems unlikely that any of the contenders will maintain their unbeaten status until the end of their careers and will therefore eventually drop off this list even if they temporarily overtake Shelford. Sutiashvili is 32 though, so might not be around too much longer.

Both Shelford and Sutiashvili captained in a draw, leaving Read with the record for most tests (13) as Captain with a 100% win record. The next best on that list is Nicolas Fernandez Miranda with 6 (2002-2005, ARG). No-one else has more than 4.

I believe that Sir Brian Lochore reached a world record 14 consecutive wins as captain before his first loss.

Just to update, Sutiashvili remains on 14 tests as captain undefeated. Read (37 wins, 5 losses) and Hartley (25 wins, 4 losses) have both fallen off the list.

If Read wins the next 4 games he captains (i.e. sweeps TRC2019 v Arg, SA, Aus x2) then his win rate will exceed McCaw's.