RugbyRebels

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2025 7:41 pm**

fivepointer wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 2:36 pm I like Murley. Think hes very good going forward and has an impressive try scoring record. The Jack Nowell comparisons arent too wide of the mark.

Wouldnt want to write him off after one cap.

He deserves the opportunity in Argentina.

Jack Nowell? Murley would run round the entire pitch before Nowell got form on touchline to the other. He's rapid.

Murley is strong too, sure. But they are utterly different players.

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2025 7:49 pm**

If I was going to compare any of our current wingers to Nowell it would be Muir - and it's not a good likeness

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2025 7:51 pm**

Stom wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 7:10 pm
Genge, Baxter, Rodd
George, LCD, Langdon, Dan
Stuart, Heyes, AOF, Fasogbon
Itoje, Ewels, Clark
Chessum, Martin, Coles
TCurry, BCurry, CCS, Hill
Underhill, Pollock, Pepper
Willis, Earl, Domrandt

Mitchell, JvP, Spencer, Randall
Ford, Smith, Farrell, Smith, CAtkinson
Freeman, Murley, Muir
SAtkinson, Dingwall, Ojomoh
Lawrence, Slade, Northmore, Beard
IFW, Roebuck, Sleightholme
Furbank, Steward, Daly, Carpenter

Plenty not nailed on, but taking it out as far as I can think in each position, with what looks like the current pecking order

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2025 8:01 pm**

Surely Northmore ahead of Beard. And probably Daly ahead of Carpenter? CCS likely ahead of Clark for lock position too.

Got to cut 9 of that 45 to make a 36 man autumn internationals squad. Lawrence won’t be available and hopefully we move on from Slade which would be 2.

Will have some injuries too but could have some folks start the season really well too.

Will be interesting- options are gearing up well and we’ve won 6 on the bounce.

Most won’t agree but since the start of the World Cup, for me there has been only 3 worrying performances. Scotland away, Australia home and Scotland home.

Australia home was poor selection from Borthwick seeing us end up with a CCS, Earl, Dombrandt back row- he seems to have realised his error there. Scotland home we found a way to win.

Other than that we’ve had a load of good performances and close shaves and we’ve now won our last 2 tight games against France and Argentina.

4 wins in the autumn please.

P.S. the rankings calculation confuses the hell out of me but we should be close to France when they come out tomorrow and they have NZ again next week.

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2025 8:15 pm**

We'll be level with France if NZ give them a(nother) bloody nose next week

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2025 8:22 pm**

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 8:01 pmSurely Northmore ahead of Beard.

Fair

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 8:01 pmAnd probably Daly ahead of Carpenter?

Don't push me

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 8:01 pmCCS likely ahead of Clark for lock position too.

You pushed

I've edited though, and taken beyond 3 each. Still only counting any one player once though.

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2025 9:54 pm**

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 8:01 pm Surely Northmore ahead of Beard. And probably Daly ahead of Carpenter? CCS likely ahead of Clark for lock position too.

Got to cut 9 of that 45 to make a 36 man autumn internationals squad. Lawrence won’t be available and hopefully we move on from Slade which would be 2.

Will have some injuries too but could have some folks start the season really well too.

Will be interesting- options are gearing up well and we’ve won 6 on the bounce.

Most won’t agree but since the start of the World Cup, for me there has been only 3 worrying performances. Scotland away, Australia home and Scotland home.

Australia home was poor selection from Borthwick seeing us end up with a CCS, Earl, Dombrandt back row- he seems to have realised his error there. Scotland home we found a way to win.

Other than that we’ve had a load of good performances and close shaves and we’ve now won our last 2 tight games against France and Argentina.

4 wins in the autumn please.

P.S. the rankings calculation confuses the hell out of me but we should be close to France when they come out tomorrow and they have NZ again next week.

Australia home was a bit of a freak one, I just don't think anyone expected them to show up like that. But really annoying after we'd choked against nz the week before.

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2025 9:56 pm**

Shame we haven't seen Hill against meaningful opposition. Would have liked to have seen kenningham too, yesterday did show a bit of a lack of turnover threat.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 12:45 pm**

https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/how-engl ... r-thought/

Interesting article on the impact of the new coaches. Wibble has suggested on Twitter there has been a plan for Borthers to move into a DoR role with El Abd on forwards which may open up a space for Mcguigan.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 12:52 pm**

SixAndAHalf wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 12:45 pm https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/how-engl ... r-thought/

Interesting article on the impact of the new coaches. Wibble has suggested on Twitter there has been a plan for Borthers to move into a DoR role with El Abd on forwards which may open up a space for Mcguigan.

God I hope so. The defence this tour has been really impressive. Sale would be pissed but who cares.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 2:42 pm**

SixAndAHalf wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 12:45 pm https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/how-engl ... r-thought/

Interesting article on the impact of the new coaches. Wibble has suggested on Twitter there has been a plan for Borthers to move into a DoR role with El Abd on forwards which may open up a space for Mcguigan.

What’s a DOR role look like with England/difference to current role?

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 2:57 pm**

Same thought crossed my mind. I guess less hands-on with the coaching?

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 3:22 pm**

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 2:57 pm Same thought crossed my mind. I guess less hands-on with the coaching?

DOR title would imply broader than 1st team. That’s kinda O’Shea’s job. Head coach doesn’t mean you do loads of hands on anyway tbh. Semantics unless it’s a substantive change I suppose

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 3:41 pm**

I think El Abd was briefly a head coach somewhere, but does he have any history as a forwards coach specifically?

It does seem odd you can just invent the need for a DOR when it’s convenient.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 4:00 pm**

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 3:22 pm
Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 2:57 pm Same thought crossed my mind. I guess less hands-on with the coaching?
DOR title would imply broader than 1st team. That’s kinda O’Shea’s job. Head coach doesn’t mean you do loads of hands on anyway tbh. Semantics unless it’s a substantive change I suppose

When interviewed by L'Equippe, Sean Edwards gave one of the reasons he turned down the approach from England to be 'Head Coach' of the Saxons (and then move up to seniors Head Coach),was he didnt want a Head Coach role as he felt that would take him away from day to day coaching which is what he "lives for".

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 4:26 pm**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 3:41 pm I think El Abd was briefly a head coach somewhere, but does he have any history as a forwards coach specifically?

It does seem odd you can just invent the need for a DOR when it’s convenient.

well yes, and what does that mean in the context of England job. You aren't signing players or looking after long term development of younger players as such

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 5:55 pm**

R3dders wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 7:41 pm
fivepointer wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 2:36 pm I like Murley. Think hes very good going forward and has an impressive try scoring record. The Jack Nowell comparisons arent too wide of the mark.

Wouldnt want to write him off after one cap.

He deserves the opportunity in Argentina.
Jack Nowell? Murley would run round the entire pitch before Nowell got form on touchline to the other. He's rapid.

Murley is strong too, sure. But they are utterly different players.

I can see it, to be honest. Beyond their stature/shape I think there are a lot of similarities. Both incredibly confident and evasive runners, able to finish with acrobatic skills or power when needed, as well as surprisingly powerful through contact and over the ball.

Nowell was better in the air and Murley much, much faster over the distance, but both best used coming off their wing rather than chasing kicks all day.

I hope the aerial part of the game isn’t too big a roadblock for Murley. He’s definitely improving, to my eye, but will never be a Roebuck/Freeman type.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 6:00 pm**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 5:55 pm
R3dders wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 7:41 pm
fivepointer wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 2:36 pm I like Murley. Think hes very good going forward and has an impressive try scoring record. The Jack Nowell comparisons arent too wide of the mark.

Wouldnt want to write him off after one cap.

He deserves the opportunity in Argentina.
Jack Nowell? Murley would run round the entire pitch before Nowell got form on touchline to the other. He's rapid.

Murley is strong too, sure. But they are utterly different players.
I can see it, to be honest. Beyond their stature/shape I think there are a lot of similarities. Both incredibly confident and evasive runners, able to finish with acrobatic skills or power when needed, as well as surprisingly powerful through contact and over the ball.

Nowell was better in the air and Murley much, much faster over the distance, but both best used coming off their wing rather than chasing kicks all day.

I hope the aerial part of the game isn’t too big a roadblock for Murley. He’s definitely improving, to my eye, but will never be a Roebuck/Freeman type.

Think Nowell used to come off his wing a lot more, and he was somewhat slower than Murley?

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 6:19 pm**

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 6:00 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 5:55 pm
R3dders wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 7:41 pm

Jack Nowell? Murley would run round the entire pitch before Nowell got form on touchline to the other. He's rapid.

Murley is strong too, sure. But they are utterly different players.
I can see it, to be honest. Beyond their stature/shape I think there are a lot of similarities. Both incredibly confident and evasive runners, able to finish with acrobatic skills or power when needed, as well as surprisingly powerful through contact and over the ball.

Nowell was better in the air and Murley much, much faster over the distance, but both best used coming off their wing rather than chasing kicks all day.

I hope the aerial part of the game isn’t too big a roadblock for Murley. He’s definitely improving, to my eye, but will never be a Roebuck/Freeman type.
Think Nowell used to come off his wing a lot more, and he was somewhat slower than Murley?

Murley comes off his wing a lot for Quins. He's also a lot faster than Nowell was. But the comparison is valid, especially when Murley was first coming through and hadn't got that burst of pace he has now. He's not a big guy, but he's powerful and tenacious in contact, he has very good footwork, so can find weak shoulders in tight traffic. There are a lot of similarities ball in hand, imo.

Murley is better in defense, though, faster, and a better finisher.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 6:31 pm**

I seem to remember one of those excruciating YouTube videos that all clubs do murley was lifting something utterly ridiculous, he's freakishly strong for his size.

The kick chase/knock back was one of the reasons I thought he might not fit into Steve's vision for England, but he was pretty decent in the air on Saturday. Less likely to take anything clean than a roebuck, but more likely to get there than the rest, especially muir who seems to need half an hour to reach top speed.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 7:30 pm**

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 6:00 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 5:55 pm
R3dders wrote: ↑Sun Jul 13, 2025 7:41 pm

Jack Nowell? Murley would run round the entire pitch before Nowell got form on touchline to the other. He's rapid.

Murley is strong too, sure. But they are utterly different players.
I can see it, to be honest. Beyond their stature/shape I think there are a lot of similarities. Both incredibly confident and evasive runners, able to finish with acrobatic skills or power when needed, as well as surprisingly powerful through contact and over the ball.

Nowell was better in the air and Murley much, much faster over the distance, but both best used coming off their wing rather than chasing kicks all day.

I hope the aerial part of the game isn’t too big a roadblock for Murley. He’s definitely improving, to my eye, but will never be a Roebuck/Freeman type.
Think Nowell used to come off his wing a lot more, and he was somewhat slower than Murley?

I can’t tell if you’re questioning me saying he is ‘much, much faster’ or just didn’t see it.

Presumably he’s under similar instructions to Muir in this series for England, but as Stom says he’s a constant threat coming off his wing for Quins as well as doing the classic counter-attack/finisher stuff you want from your fast guys.

I think Nowell sometimes gets a bit of a bad rap, for what’s it’s worth, but his lack of top end pace meant he often couldn’t capitalise on that footwork and physicality, as well as being a pretty ropey 1-on-1 defender.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:45 pm**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 7:30 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 6:00 pm
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Jul 14, 2025 5:55 pm

I can see it, to be honest. Beyond their stature/shape I think there are a lot of similarities. Both incredibly confident and evasive runners, able to finish with acrobatic skills or power when needed, as well as surprisingly powerful through contact and over the ball.

Nowell was better in the air and Murley much, much faster over the distance, but both best used coming off their wing rather than chasing kicks all day.

I hope the aerial part of the game isn’t too big a roadblock for Murley. He’s definitely improving, to my eye, but will never be a Roebuck/Freeman type.
Think Nowell used to come off his wing a lot more, and he was somewhat slower than Murley?
I can’t tell if you’re questioning me saying he is ‘much, much faster’ or just didn’t see it.

Presumably he’s under similar instructions to Muir in this series for England, but as Stom says he’s a constant threat coming off his wing for Quins as well as doing the classic counter-attack/finisher stuff you want from your fast guys.

I think Nowell sometimes gets a bit of a bad rap, for what’s it’s worth, but his lack of top end pace meant he often couldn’t capitalise on that footwork and physicality, as well as being a pretty ropey 1-on-1 defender.

Yeah sorry didn’t spot it. Fair enough on looking for work, but Nowell was always around breakdowns etc etc. not just popping up somewhere in the backs
you guys know better than me, but it’s not a comparison that would have occurred to me. Nowell also played 13 and 15 a bit, does Murley have that in his locker out of interest?

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:57 pm**

He came through with 13 as his preferred position actually but I think it’s a long time since he’s had any meaningful time there. I imagine he’s just considered too small for it to be a serious option.

Never played 15 as far as I’m aware, and I’d agree his work under the high ball is still the biggest area of improvement. Good chaser but unlikely to ever command that space in the air.

Posted: **Tue Jul 15, 2025 8:11 am**

I think Nowell had less competition than Murley making comparisons debatable. Arguably, Nowell was always in our top three wingers. Murley is not at that level and may not get the chance to be compared in international terms. In terms of club effectiveness they are on a par. Style-wise, there are similarities and differences. Defenders have found both hard to mark.

Posted: **Tue Jul 15, 2025 9:15 am**

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 15, 2025 8:11 am I think Nowell had less competition than Murley making comparisons debatable. Arguably, Nowell was always in our top three wingers. Murley is not at that level and may not get the chance to be compared in international terms. In terms of club effectiveness they are on a par. Style-wise, there are similarities and differences. Defenders have found both hard to mark.

You just can't say that, though...

Murley has scored a butt load more tries than Nowell in fewer games. He's been top try scorer.

Nowell was a great player, but he was never a top finisher. Murley is. Along with the other elements.

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