RugbyRebels

A little light hearted reflection over all the AI matches. Who are your four Welsh players who played this autumn who went up in your estimation and impressed you and the four whose did not perform as well as you wished plus your Wales player of the AI ...add your thoughts if you wish ..

Up
Tipuric
Francis
Sam Davies
Moriarty

Down
Cuthbert
Roberts
Anscombe
Lloyd Williams


Wales Player of the AI

Gethin Jenkins defies time ..and does what he does to such a high standard and a nod to Halfpenny.

UP: Francis, Moriarty, Baldwin, Sam Davies

Tipuric couldn't go much higher in my esteem. Big Sam fan but had my doubts, have a lot fewer now. Baldwin seems to have worked on the weaknesses in his game.

DOWN: Anscombe, Roberts, Warburton, Gareth Davies

Before the AIs I thought Anscombe deserved a chance but he brought very little to the party. Roberts needs new tricks. Warbs will hopefully be back but he's fading right now. Davies hasn't "kicked on" IMO.

POTAI: Moriarty for sheer consistency. Not flash but fast becoming indispensable.

Up: Francis, Moriarty, ?
Down: loads of them, but especially Scott Williams and JD2 (Cuthbert and Roberts were both shot last season and lucky to be starting at all).
I cannot fathom how an international centre cannot a) run straight or b) pass off both hands.

Player of the series was Tipuric. He should have tons more caps to his name,lightweight or not. His handling is better than our backs and his ability to run a straight line is better than our backs. Fairly telling I feel that our forwards score nicer looking tries than our backs.

And before anyone decides to be an arse about it, yes I do know that the backs don't have to score 'nice' tries, but to be fair, scoring a try would be a nice sight.

I am dreading the six nations.

Up
Tipuric (yes, I already was a fan, but he really sealed his reputation this time)
Francis
Sam Davies (despite not enough time at 10, he has already raised the question of who should be our No.1 fly half)
Moriarty

Down
Cuthbert (I wouldn't have had him in the squad, but he was even worse than I expected. Shockingly worse)
Roberts (not terrible, but now we know our defence doesn't fall apart without him. What does he bring, exactly?)
Scott Williams (not a disaster, and slightly preferable to Roberts, but failed to maked a great case for his selection)
North (for the first time I'm questioning if he should be in the team. Not sure if he's better than Amos, even. And if Giles gets up to speed...)

Unimpressed by these to varying degrees, but my opinion didn't change on them: Lloyd Williams, Anscombe, JD2, Lydiate.

Wales Player of the AI: Tipuric, but Geth was close

Winners:

Baldwin (nothing spectacular but did very little wrong and seems to be returning to form)
Francis (now seems to be 1st choice TH and looks far more comfortable with international rugby)
AWJ (any explanation required?)
Tipuric (just superb)
Sam Davies (as previously mentioned he has really opened a debate over FH, but never again at FB!)
Liam WIlliams (one moment of stupidity aside against Japan, very good throughout)
Moriarty (has to be in the first choice starting back row now)
Faletau (only 40 minutes but pure class)
Gethin Jenkins (just keeps on going and had some real positive moments)
Cory Hill (took his opportunities well and contributed)

Losers:

Most of the rest to be fair to varying degrees (bar Biggar and Halfpenny who have remained stable IMO)

Roberts - is the time now up for the big man. We all know we need more from an IC, can he adapt?
JD2 - if crabbing across the field were an Olympic sport....
North - why don't we give him the ball when he is at full pace?
Gareth Davies (decision making iffy?)
Warburton (how long is his automatic inclusion to continue with Tipuric and Moriarty staking such big claims?)
Lydiate - great for defensive work, but needs to improve his attacking game.
Anscombe - failed to take his chance
Cuthbert - needs a rest. Starting to feel sorry for the guy, nothing is working for him.

Player of the series - Tipuric or Moriarty for me. We all knoew Tips was class, but Moriarty has really made his presence felt at international level and for me is now the obvious blindside for us going forward.

Whereas Baldwin showed up well with his ball carrying his weakness is his lineout throwing as was seen v Japan in the first few minutes, that is why he has been dropped in favour of Owens this series imo.

Moriarty was the stand out player for us.

Try not to get too caught up in what Tipuric does in the loose, his bread and butter is the breakdown and that is where he needs to be a world beater, not in the backline.

He did play well in all facets on Saturday but I would have had Gethin Jenkins as MOM personally.

Francis was rock solid and we now have two very good 3's which is nice.

It will be interesting to see if Rob Evans gets the nod over Gethin come the 6 nations, Warburton may now struggle to get into the backrow with the clamour for Tipuric at 7.


The people who have done themselves no favours are:

Cuthbert - not sure how someone who can't play rugby to a basic level is playing for an international team.
Brad Davies - Poor against Aus.


Reragrding the time JD ran round the SA second row on saturday why didn't at least one of the two players outside him offer themselves on the inside ball instead of them both running into a channel about a metre wide?

Yeah I put Gethin simply because he does what he does ..but even for him his general play in the loose was up there .

I thought Moriarty whilst very high standard did not seem to be heads up and looking as often as he does for Glos.maybe because he faced better defences. I thought he looked his best when Falateu came on, and also Falateu looked good ...that backrow should test the best.

Halfpenny just came back and just looked good and is improving with every match and sorry guys...but I still prefer him at 15 but the other option is still up there.

I alsi agree so many players were meeeahhh and have not stepped up the next notch.

The centres peformance was underwhelming. I was so keen to see them getting starts together. Maybe they just needs more international time together ...at least I hope that is the answer.

So if you want a 12 who has skills... lets get Hooky back in the squad ..that will get my heart rate going

I would like to see Williams at Leicester given a shout for the wider training squad at 12 and Patchell..but as a 10.

For me I am exited about the 6N ...lets get a good result against Italy..and that may be the start they need to kick on.

ALunpg wrote:Yeah I put Gethin simply because he does what he does ..but even for him his general play in the loose was up there .

I thought Moriarty whilst very high standard did not seem to be heads up and looking as often as he does for Glos.maybe because he faced better defences. I thought he looked his best when Falateu came on, and also Falateu looked good ...that backrow should test the best.

Halfpenny just came back and just looked good and is improving with every match and sorry guys...but I still prefer him at 15 but the other option is still up there.

I alsi agree so many players were meeeahhh and have not stepped up the next notch.

The centres peformance was underwhelming. I was so keen to see them getting starts together. Maybe they just needs more international time together ...at least I hope that is the answer.

So if you want a 12 who has skills... lets get Hooky back in the squad ..that will get my heart rate going

I would like to see Williams at Leicester given a shout for the wider training squad at 12 and Patchell..but as a 10.

For me I am exited about the 6N ...lets get a good result against Italy..and that may be the start they need to kick on.

For the centres to perform they need a 10 who brings them onto the ball and the possession needs to be recycled far quicker (to give the 10 more time) than we were doing for the whole of the AIs, if you look at the speed of the clearout in the Ire v Aus match you can clearly see we are not recycling the ball quick enough through phase possession.

Hook is returning to the Os isn't he?

Numbers wrote:Whereas Baldwin showed up well with his ball carrying his weakness is his lineout throwing as was seen v Japan in the first few minutes, that is why he has been dropped in favour of Owens this series imo.

Moriarty was the stand out player for us.

Try not to get too caught up in what Tipuric does in the loose, his bread and butter is the breakdown and that is where he needs to be a world beater, not in the backline.

He did play well in all facets on Saturday but I would have had Gethin Jenkins as MOM personally.

Francis was rock solid and we now have two very good 3's which is nice.

It will be interesting to see if Rob Evans gets the nod over Gethin come the 6 nations, Warburton may now struggle to get into the backrow with the clamour for Tipuric at 7.


The people who have done themselves no favours are:

Cuthbert - not sure how someone who can't play rugby to a basic level is playing for an international team.
Brad Davies - Poor against Aus.


Reragrding the time JD ran round the SA second row on saturday why didn't at least one of the two players outside him offer themselves on the inside ball instead of them both running into a channel about a metre wide?

Not hthe first time that Ive seen that happen. Whether players are so conditioned to providing support to a ruck or continuing to move in a set direction that they cant think on their feet, I don't know. But that has happened a few times, along with running out of room.

I thought Tips did the bread and butter job pretty well this series.

Numbers wrote:

ALunpg wrote:Yeah I put Gethin simply because he does what he does ..but even for him his general play in the loose was up there .

I thought Moriarty whilst very high standard did not seem to be heads up and looking as often as he does for Glos.maybe because he faced better defences. I thought he looked his best when Falateu came on, and also Falateu looked good ...that backrow should test the best.

Halfpenny just came back and just looked good and is improving with every match and sorry guys...but I still prefer him at 15 but the other option is still up there.

I alsi agree so many players were meeeahhh and have not stepped up the next notch.

The centres peformance was underwhelming. I was so keen to see them getting starts together. Maybe they just needs more international time together ...at least I hope that is the answer.

So if you want a 12 who has skills... lets get Hooky back in the squad ..that will get my heart rate going

I would like to see Williams at Leicester given a shout for the wider training squad at 12 and Patchell..but as a 10.

For me I am exited about the 6N ...lets get a good result against Italy..and that may be the start they need to kick on.

For the centres to perform they need a 10 who brings them onto the ball and the possession needs to be recycled far quicker (to give the 10 more time) than we were doing for the whole of the AIs, if you look at the speed of the clearout in the Ire v Aus match you can clearly see we are not recycling the ball quick enough through phase possession.

Hook is returning to the Os isn't he?

To be fair to our backs, some of the ball we have shovelled on just hasn't been good enough. EVen when we do get quick ball from the forwards, both Davies and WIlliams at scrum half seemed to take an age to make their mind up what to do next - there is a clear gap between them and Webb. Biggar played far better on Saturday in my opinion, from an attacing perspective. Perhaps some pressure on him from Davies is just what is needed? Scott Williams has shown more subtle touches than Roberts, but we desperately need some fluidity to our attacking game. There is no point in having a centre with good handling skills if there is no one there to take a pass.

Sandydragon wrote: I thought Tips did the bread and butter job pretty well this series.

I've always believed he was an outstanding player who got landed (like Croft) with the 'showpony' rubbish. Not only is he an excellent 'footballer' (in its broadest sense) and an excellent turnover man, he is able to do the grunt and graft with the best of them. I still think for Wales having Tipuric at 7 and Warburton at 6 is by far the better option. Now that you have both Moriarty and Falatua for the 8 slot,Warburton may be pushed out.

Sandydragon wrote:
To be fair to our backs, some of the ball we have shovelled on just hasn't been good enough. EVen when we do get quick ball from the forwards, both Davies and WIlliams at scrum half seemed to take an age to make their mind up what to do next - there is a clear gap between them and Webb.

Indeed I think speed of recycling is the issue we have to address before we can even truly know what our backline is capable of. Watching Wales ruck this year has been like pulling teeth. The Japan game in particular looked like Rugby League; at every breakdown the half-backs were patiently re-organizing receivers like chess pieces, while the defence jogged back into their positions and killed all the space. Any League player will tell you, with 15-a-side there would never be any tries. This week was a bit better, but not a lot. Yes we need centres who can make things happen, but it's not their job alone to create space.

oldbackrow wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: I thought Tips did the bread and butter job pretty well this series.

I've always believed he was an outstanding player who got landed (like Croft) with the 'showpony' rubbish. Not only is he an excellent 'footballer' (in its broadest sense) and an excellent turnover man, he is able to do the grunt and graft with the best of them. I still think for Wales having Tipuric at 7 and Warburton at 6 is by far the better option. Now that you have both Moriarty and Falatua for the 8 slot,Warburton may be pushed out.

I always accepted that Tips isn't the greatest presence at a ruck. Particularly if he isn't the tackler, too often he seems to get out-muscled there, and it's a serious weakness to his game.

But what he brings to the team in other areas is priceless. If you have a player with a weakness who is invaluable elsewhere, you don't leave him out, you work on the weakness. If it still persists, then fair enough, ask questions. Look at Cuthbert; while he was ruthlessly finishing half-chances from the halfway line, we overlooked his technically dodgy defending, and we reaped the rewards.

I feel we still have this tendency to look for the "perfect" player in every position, rather than putting our best 15 rugby players on the field. It's not a totally flawed philosophy but, given our comparative lack of resources, it shouldn't be our default one IMO.

Sourdust wrote:

oldbackrow wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: I thought Tips did the bread and butter job pretty well this series.

I've always believed he was an outstanding player who got landed (like Croft) with the 'showpony' rubbish. Not only is he an excellent 'footballer' (in its broadest sense) and an excellent turnover man, he is able to do the grunt and graft with the best of them. I still think for Wales having Tipuric at 7 and Warburton at 6 is by far the better option. Now that you have both Moriarty and Falatua for the 8 slot,Warburton may be pushed out.

I always accepted that Tips isn't the greatest presence at a ruck. Particularly if he isn't the tackler, too often he seems to get out-muscled there, and it's a serious weakness to his game.

But what he brings to the team in other areas is priceless. If you have a player with a weakness who is invaluable elsewhere, you don't leave him out, you work on the weakness. If it still persists, then fair enough, ask questions. Look at Cuthbert; while he was ruthlessly finishing half-chances from the halfway line, we overlooked his technically dodgy defending, and we reaped the rewards.

I feel we still have this tendency to look for the "perfect" player in every position, rather than putting our best 15 rugby players on the field. It's not a totally flawed philosophy but, given our comparative lack of resources, it shouldn't be our default one IMO.

I suppose it depends whether or not you want a 7 to boss the breakdown or play in wider channels, I prefer a 7 who does his bread and butter first and foremost, anything else is a bonus.

I don't recall Richie McCaw making many line breaks in midfield when he played.

Numbers wrote: I don't recall Richie McCaw making many line breaks in midfield when he played.

Which McCaw, the one of the last 5 years or so with the gammy shoulder and no express pace using experience to read his way around a game, or the absurdly fast McCaw of 2004 vintage?

For the centres to perform they need a 10 who brings them onto the ball and the possession needs to be recycled far quicker (to give the 10 more time) than we were doing for the whole of the AIs, if you look at the speed of the clearout in the Ire v Aus match you can clearly see we are not recycling the ball quick enough through phase possession.

Fair point about the recycle speed ... and Sam maybe the one to do it .
But i still wanted to see a bit more fizz than they showed ... they did have opportunitues it was not an impossible task against the SA back line.

Digby wrote:

Numbers wrote: I don't recall Richie McCaw making many line breaks in midfield when he played.

Which McCaw, the one of the last 5 years or so with the gammy shoulder and no express pace using experience to read his way around a game, or the absurdly fast McCaw of 2004 vintage?

Hmmm. A 7 should be a thinker and have some degree of pace. But there should be a Jan Molby element to them as well. Tom Rees gave an interview to one of the broadsheets early in his career and he was talking about the first time he'd played against Martyn Williams and despite feeling he'd matched him for physicality he'd watched the game multiple times on video to understand how Nugget had chosen which breakdowns to hit and which he was standing off.

I don't really know what qualifies as 'bread and butter' for a modern 7 but I do know that just as opposition can vary, conditions can vary and ref's can vary,.... they do have to be a jack of all trades.