RugbyRebels

This has received criminally little attention in the rugby media. Although I knew it had been set up, I wasn't aware that it was underway.

Argentina and USA head the table with a win and a draw apiece.

The weird thing is that despite Argentina fielding an "A" team (referred to as "Argentina XV") and World Rugby accordingly not awarding World Ranking points for matches involving this team, the UAR is awarding full caps for these matches. I can appreciate the need for a balanced comp and that this reflects UAR's previous practice of awarding caps to understrength sides in the South American Championship but this is taking it too far, surely.

Argentina is basically the 800-pount gorilla of the continent, so even if they were awarded rankings points, I honestly doubt it would really have a significant effect. In fact, a team that was ostensibly Argentina C had a drawn series against France a few years ago as well.

So why is Argentina even in the comp? At least when NZ had a team in the PNC they had the honesty to call it the Junior All Blacks or NZ Maori. Ditto the South African Amateurs in the Africa Cup.

Lizard wrote:So why is Argentina even in the comp? At least when NZ had a team in the PNC they had the honesty to call it the Junior All Blacks or NZ Maori. Ditto the South African Amateurs in the Africa Cup.

Because the organisers wanted it to keep travel distance relatively reasonable, and to basically develop their own rugby themselves without having to rely on overseas team. Argentina would be there because obviously the UAR saw long-term value in regular fixtures against their neighbours. And also because they felt like it? Who cares? "Oh noooooo! Argentina is fielding a team and is awarding test caps in games that don't affect the rankings because they're playing teams that are like, a thousand places behind them! Won't somebody please think of the children!?"

There are few things more tedious than whining about who gets awarded test caps.

It unnecessarily complicates the statistics.

Lizard wrote:It unnecessarily complicates the statistics.

Not just the stats but potentially the Raeburn Shield.

Are the countries playing against the Pumas awarding caps? I so who the the irb think they are deciding that it's not a Test? Arg are entitled to put out whoever they like and risk the ranking consequences.

Big win for Brazil that.

Peat wrote:Big win for Brazil that.

Indeed. Even with it only being a shadow US team, that's still a massive result. The Brazilian RFU are putting a lot of effort into spreading the game at the moment and,with IRB help, it's now in an awful lot of schools. With the Olympic boost and events like the Americas cup, I really wouldn't be surprised to see Brazil at the RWC in 2023.

Puja

What I'd like to see next is an Asia-Pacific 6 Nations involving Japan, Hong Kong, Korea, Fiji, Samoa & Tonga. That would really help develop a couple of new Asian teams with a view to possible World Cup expansion. & Hong Kong and Korea are ranked ahead of both Chile and Brazil (the latter by more than a dozen places).

Rugby described as the fastest growing team sport in America. Melville suggests the US could soon be among the 'Big 5.' http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/04/sport ... index.html

rowan wrote:What I'd like to see next is an Asia-Pacific 6 Nations involving Japan, Hong Kong, Korea, Fiji, Samoa & Tonga. That would really help develop a couple of new Asian teams with a view to possible World Cup expansion. & Hong Kong and Korea are ranked ahead of both Chile and Brazil (the latter by more than a dozen places).

Are you aware of the Pacific Nations Cup?

Yes, and Hong Kong and Korea aren't in it. They aren't even in the Pacific Challenge Cup, which would be the ideal level for them.

Argentina inaugural champions then. Wheels really came of the US Eagles on the South American tour.

05.03 São José dos Campos Brazil 7-42 Argentina 'B' Americas Championship
05.03 Santiago Chile 13-64 Canada Americas Championship
05.03 Montevideo Uruguay 29-25 USA Americas Championship

rowan wrote:What I'd like to see next is an Asia-Pacific 6 Nations involving Japan, Hong Kong, Korea, Fiji, Samoa & Tonga. That would really help develop a couple of new Asian teams with a view to possible World Cup expansion. & Hong Kong and Korea are ranked ahead of both Chile and Brazil (the latter by more than a dozen places).

At the moment Hong Kong and SKorea are getting gubbed annually by the Japanese reserve team in the Asian 5N. It's getting closer, but I don't believe it's ever been below a 40 point margin. I'm not convinced that it's the right use of precious IRB funds to run an additional tournament where they will get destroyed by other teams as well.

If they can get the Japan A defeats down to single figures, then I think it's worth talking about. But at the moment, they are getting access to games against a higher quality team and that should do for their development right now.

Puja

Maybe they could start them off in the Pacific Challenge Cup - now featuring Japan and the Pacific Islands' 'A' teams (Jaguars withdrawn with Argentina now involved in the ARC & Super Rugby competitions). But the point is, if Brazil & Chile can play in the same championship as Argentina, no reason Hong Kong and Korea shouldn't be able to compete with Japan and the Pacific Islands at test level. Let's not forget, these two teams have beaten Japan on more than one occasion in the past.

Nice false equivalence there.

Sorry, it was the Pampas who were withdrawn from the Pacific Challenge Cup this year, no doubt due to Argentinean involvement in the ARC & Super Rugby. Canada has also dropped out this year, meaning the competition will involve only Japan Juniors and the Pacific Islands' A teams. Seems to me this would have been the perfect time to bring in Hong Kong & Korea. A few years at this level and they might just be ready for the step up to PNC.

I'm not sure I want to see another competition that needs weakened teams to make it competitive eg the "Pumas" team in the ARC) or involves annual, pointless shellackings.

On the other hand, helping HK and Korea bridge the gap to Japan is an obviously good idea. It's a shame that Japan's domestic competition seems singularly ill-suited to having a foreign team involved. Maybe Samsung could buy a franchise to expose Korean players to a higher level of rugby outside the test arena. (I am completely ignorant of Korea's domestic arrangements BTW).

Hmm. Seems like Hyundai might be a better bet than Samsung.

http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/phone/news/vi ... idx=193350

Rugby in Korea mostly revolves around the police and army, so far as I'm aware. That served them well in the amateur era, when they beat Japan a few times, but has left them way behind in the pro era. Also, pretty modest playing numbers - just a couple of thousand registered, I understand. I actually saw them play way back in the 80s. It was a narrow loss to NSW B in Sydney. They played a test against the Wallabies on the same tour, losing 65-18 in Brisbane.

The game in China, meanwhile, also revolves around the armed forces. They actually had separate army and civilian national teams for a while, but appear to have dispensed with that system after suffering a few humiliating defeats - including a 94-0 reversal to India in 2010, just six years after putting half a century on the same opponent . . .

There were reports here a few years ago that the Chinese army had decided that rugby would be their official sport and had asked the NZRU if they could supply thousands of coaches to get them kick started. I've no idea of that recollection is genuine and if so how accurate that reporting was.

Lizard wrote:There were reports here a few years ago that the Chinese army had decided that rugby would be their official sport and had asked the NZRU if they could supply thousands of coaches to get them kick started. I've no idea of that recollection is genuine and if so how accurate that reporting was.

I remember reading something like that as well. Like with many stories that usually have a tone of "wacky China, lol," I suspect there was some degree of exaggeration involved.

Apparently Canada are going to continue disgracing this tournament by playing their home-games on a road-side park Everybody else will be playing in proper stadiums with respectable capacities befitting a major international tournament.

AMERICAS RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP 2017 FIXTURES

Saturday, 4 February
Canada v Argentina XV
Brazil v Chile
United States v Uruguay

Saturday, 11 February
Argentina XV v Uruguay
USA v Brazil
Canada v Chile

Saturday, 18 February
Chile v Argentina XV
Uruguay v Brazil
Canada v USA

Saturday, 25 February
Argentina XV v Brazil
Uruguay v Canada
Chile v USA

Saturday, 4 March
Argentina XV v USA
Brazil v Canada
Uruguay v Chile

http://www.worldrugby.org/news/189116

Hard to believe now that this actually happened exactly a year ago:

27.02 Barueri Brazil 24-23 USA Americas Championship
27.02 Santiago Chile 20-23 Uruguay Americas Championship

Uruguay up to 3rd in the America's rugby rankings. Incidentally, if Uruguay beat Canada in the home leg, which now seems likely, it'll be their third World Cup but the first one they'd qualified for directly (as opposed to through the repechages):

International competition for 2018 is underway. Canada hosted Uruguay on Saturday in the opening fixture of the Americas Rugby Championship. The result of the match sees changes straight away in the Americas Rankings. The January 28 2018 rankings see Uruguay gaining points and Canada losing.

Uruguay entered the match with 65.53 ranking points. By winning 38-29 in Canada Los Teros have improved to now be ranked with 66.48 points. It represents a notable closing of the gap between 3rd and 2nd in the Americas.

Canada went into the match with 61.13 points. The loss sees the North Americans tumbling to 60.28 points. This represents a massive gap between 3rd and 4th in the Americas.

The Americas Rankings will be updated again next Sunday. They are to make into account two of the three matches being played. Uruguay host Canada in the return Rugby World Cup 2019 qualifying fixture in Montevideo. Across in Santiago will be Chile at home against Brazil.

Rankings are not to be on the line in Los Angeles, California. The USA play host to the Argentina XV, the official ‘A’ side from Argentina. With it not being Los Pumas rankings points are not to be on the line. However Brazil, Canada, Chile and Uruguay could all gain or lose points depending on their results.

It should be noted that Costa Rica continues to be ranked on 32.16 points. This is the case despite the country having gained World Rugby membership in November 2017. Upon gaining World Rugby membership unions enter the World Rankings and do so with a 30.00 ranking.

RANK COUNTRY POINTS WRR
1 argentina-logo-thumbnail Argentina 78.22 8
2 usa-logo-thumbnail USA 66.87 17
3 uruguay-logo-thumbnail Uruguay 66.48 18
4 canada-logo-thumbnail Canada 60.28 21
5 chile-logo-thumbnail Chile 58.18 24
6 brazil-logo-thumbnail Brazil 55.61 27
7 paraguay-logo-thumbnail Paraguay 48.54 39
8 colombia-logo-thumbnail Colombia 48.36 41
9 guyana-logo-thumbnail Guyana 46.55 49
10 trinidad-tobago-logo-thumbnail Trinidad & Tobago 45.51 53
11 cayman-islands-logo-thumbnail Cayman Islands 45.20 54
12 mexico-logo-thumbnail Mexico 45.12 55
13 venezuela-logo-thumbnail Venezuela 41.87 62
14 jamaica-logo-thumbnail Jamaica 38.76 69
15 bermuda-logo-thumbnail Bermuda 37.39 76
16 barbados-logo-thumbnail Barbados 36.48 82
17 peru-logo-thumbnail Peru 35.70 83
18 bahamas-logo-thumbnail Bahamas 34.03 87
= guatemala-logo-thumbnail Guatemala 34.03 =
20 turks-caicos-logo-thumbnail Turks & Caicos Islands 33.53 90
21 st-vincent-logo-thumbnail St. Vincent and the Grenadines 33.12 91
22 costa-rica-logo-thumbnail Costa Rica 32.16 93
23 saint-lucia-logo-thumbnail St. Lucia 31.79 95
24 ecuador-logo-thumbnail Ecuador 30.57 100
25 belize-logo-thumbnail Belize 30.00 –
= bolivia-logo-thumbnail Bolivia 30.00 –
= british-virgin-islands-logo-thumbnail British Virgin Islands 30.00 –
= cuba-logo-thumbnail Cuba 30.00 –
= guadeloupe-logo-thumbnail Guadeloupe 30.00 –
= haiti-logo-thumbnail Haiti 30.00 –
= honduras-logo-thumbnail Honduras 30.00 –
= martinique-logo-thumbnail Martinique 30.00 –
= st-kitts-nevis-logo-thumbnail St. Kitts and Nevis 30.00 –
= suriname-logo-thumbnail Suriname 30.00 –
35 nicaragua-logo-thumbnail Nicaragua 29.16 –
36 Dominican Republic 29.12 –
37 panama-logo-thumbnail Panama 27.32 –
38 curacao-logo-thumbnail Curaçao 27.08 –
39 el-salvador-logo-thumbnail El Salvador 26.63 –

http://www.americarugbynews.com/2018/01 ... y-28-2018/