RugbyRebels

With the Argentina tour likely to present the opportunity for a number of test debuts, I thought it might be interesting to look at what the best uncapped 23 would look like.

I'm excluding anyone in the current U20 squad for now, purely because I think it's too soon for them.

I'd go for:

1. Rapava-Ruskin
2. Haywood
3. H. Williams
4. Barrow
5. Symons
6. Jones
7. Underhill
8. Thompson
9. Robson
10. Lozowski
11. Earle
12. Tompkins
13. Marchant
14. Solomona
15. Haley

16. McGugian
17. Catt
18. Cooper-Woolley
19. Slater
20. M. Williams
21. Spencer
22. James
23. Woodward

Thoughts?

Has Beaumont dropped right out of favour?

Would definetly be looking at Wray

As an aside I just don't get how Barrow's name keeps popping up. Looks to me like a less intelligent Gareth Archer

I forgot Beaumont was uncapped TBH. Although I'd still have Guy Thompson well ahead of him at 8 based upon their form this season. I know Eddie has said he thinks Beaumont is a lock, but I don't know if I'm buying that until he puts together a run of decent performances in the second row for Sale.

Re. Barrow, I think he's had a very strong run of games recently and has been a big part of the improvement in Leicester's form.

Aside from Wray (and presumably Beaumont) who would you pick?

Might risk Thacker and Johnny Williams for the heck of it. Then Bassett on the wing.

Otherwise looks about right

I think Don Armand has a case for being pound-for-pound the best backrower in the Prem, so I'd have him in there. Ewers over M.Williams...Dunn the Bath hooker is a really good player.

I like the look of Armand but can't quite work out what he does well or how to fit him in.

Timbo wrote:I think Don Armand has a case for being pound-for-pound the best backrower in the Prem, so I'd have him in there. Ewers over M.Williams...Dunn the Bath hooker is a really good player.

Armand and Mark Wilson were two I was debating, but I went for Jones, Underhill and Williams on the basis that they seem more likely to be capped.

Agree with you re. Dunn. We're very well stocked at hooker for the foreseeable future.

Whenever I see him, feel they Dom Barrow is a penalty machine. Far too ill-disciplined to be a top second row.

Is Wade uncapped? If so, him over Solomona, as he is the original finisher whose alignment in defence is weak

At THP Collier has a decent claim as does Schonert just based on his scrummaging.
Think Haywood has slipped back a bit this season. I do like Dunn and think Cam Neild could be top class if he opted for hooker instead of back row.
Symons and Barrow looks a good pairing, though Calum Green is a very under rated player.
Ewers, Beaumont, Armand and Wilson are all worthy of BR consideration. As a left field pick, Thacker at openside maybe. I like Ellis at Bath and I'd keep an eye on Simmonds at Exeter and Chick at Newcastle.
At SH I'd throw in Townsend who has shown up really well.
Other backs I'd consider would be Addison, Short and Trinder. Devoto too though I'm not sure if he's been capped.

Think Earle is lucky to be mentioned - a long way Togo

Bassett at wasps is under rated IMO

Bloggs wrote:Whenever I see him, feel they Dom Barrow is a penalty machine. Far too ill-disciplined to be a top second row.

Is Wade uncapped? If so, him over Solomona, as he is the original finisher whose alignment in defence is weak

Wade has 1 cap and had a non test cameo with the Lions.

Traditional Off Topic Pondering: If Solomona tours with the Lions and appears in a Test, regardless of his new found allegiance to England, would that make him ineligible for Samoa?

I R Geech wrote:

Bloggs wrote:Whenever I see him, feel they Dom Barrow is a penalty machine. Far too ill-disciplined to be a top second row.

Is Wade uncapped? If so, him over Solomona, as he is the original finisher whose alignment in defence is weak

Wade has 1 cap and had a non test cameo with the Lions.

Traditional Off Topic Pondering: If Solomona tours with the Lions and appears in a Test, regardless of his new found allegiance to England, would that make him ineligible for Samoa?

It's my understanding that it wouldn't affect his eligibility for any other nation. IIRC correctly, Sivivatu played for the short-lived Pacific Islands team but was then eligible to play for NZ afterwards (no jokes, please).

Mind, if he does get called up for the Lions, then Gatland needs his head examining.

Puja

Puja wrote:

I R Geech wrote:

Bloggs wrote:Whenever I see him, feel they Dom Barrow is a penalty machine. Far too ill-disciplined to be a top second row.

Is Wade uncapped? If so, him over Solomona, as he is the original finisher whose alignment in defence is weak

Wade has 1 cap and had a non test cameo with the Lions.

Traditional Off Topic Pondering: If Solomona tours with the Lions and appears in a Test, regardless of his new found allegiance to England, would that make him ineligible for Samoa?

It's my understanding that it wouldn't affect his eligibility for any other nation. IIRC correctly, Sivivatu played for the short-lived Pacific Islands team but was then eligible to play for NZ afterwards (no jokes, please).

Mind, if he does get called up for the Lions, then Gatland needs his head examining.

Puja

Is he not 6'3" and over 15 stone? He's already had his suit fitting.

The suit fitting is part of Gats time honoured selection process. X suits are made in XXXXLarge, and then players come along to to try them on, and if they fit then like Cinderella they can go to the ball

Unless they're stood two passes away from the breakdown, in which case there will be no ball.

Mellsblue wrote:Unless they're stood two passes away from the breakdown, in which case there will be no ball.

Puja

fivepointer wrote:At THP Collier has a decent claim as does Schonert just based on his scrummaging.
Think Haywood has slipped back a bit this season. I do like Dunn and think Cam Neild could be top class if he opted for hooker instead of back row.
Symons and Barrow looks a good pairing, though Calum Green is a very under rated player.
Ewers, Beaumont, Armand and Wilson are all worthy of BR consideration. As a left field pick, Thacker at openside maybe. I like Ellis at Bath and I'd keep an eye on Simmonds at Exeter and Chick at Newcastle.
At SH I'd throw in Townsend who has shown up really well.
Other backs I'd consider would be Addison, Short and Trinder. Devoto too though I'm not sure if he's been capped.

My definition of 'best' was based upon players I thought migh be in with an outside shot of a call up sometime soon.

I agree Calum Green is an underrated player, but we're blessed with top class locks as well as a glut of very good ones outside the squad such Slater, Kitchener, Garvey, Lees and Hill along with those already mentioned.

Neild is another good player but again, we've got others who have been in and around the Saxons etc. who play at hooker week-in, week-out.

Ellis and Simmonds (both of them) look very promising, but I think they're a little way off test contention for a while yet.

Addison and Short were two I also considered and Townsend is definitely looking like one to watch. Devoto does have 1 cap.

I guess the overall picture is that we have a lot of good players that aren't far off being test quality. I'd back our best uncapped side to give som test teams a run for their money.

Scrumhead wrote: I guess the overall picture is that we have a lot of good players that aren't far off being test quality. I'd back our best uncapped side to give som test teams a run for their money.

That's always been our problem though - our A team can thump most teams' A teams, but we don't always get people from "Pretty good Prem player" to "World class".

Puja

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote: I guess the overall picture is that we have a lot of good players that aren't far off being test quality. I'd back our best uncapped side to give som test teams a run for their money.

That's always been our problem though - our A team can thump most teams' A teams, but we don't always get people from "Pretty good Prem player" to "World class".

Puja

Not sure I'd go so far as implying we get any of our players to World Class (by the stricter definitions at least)

Tom Marshall at FB - the guys a class act.
Henry Trinder at 13.

Agree about Marshall - good player

On that note, we could even start naming a 'test XV with, at best, a dubious claim to being English'

He'd be in it

TheNomad wrote:Agree about Marshall - good player

On that note, we could even start naming a 'test XV with, at best, a dubious claim to being English'

He'd be in it

He's got more of a claim than some of our current internationals like the Vunipolas, Hughes, Tuilagi et al.

didn't think Marshall was EQ. Grandparent?

Middle name of Guthrie. Whats not to like about that?

fivepointer wrote:didn't think Marshall was EQ. Grandparent?

Middle name of Guthrie. Whats not to like about that?

Yep - grandparents are English and he's stated he's up for it.

ilovelamp wrote:

TheNomad wrote:Agree about Marshall - good player

On that note, we could even start naming a 'test XV with, at best, a dubious claim to being English'

He'd be in it

He's got more of a claim than some of our current internationals like the Vunipolas, Hughes, Tuilagi et al.

Hughes, I'll definitely give you, but it's a bit harsh to namecheck the Vunipolas and Tuilagi who've lived here half their lives and who went through our schools system. Marshall's very much a product of NZ who has English ancestry.

Still, all are better than Solomona.

Puja